How to avoid getting bad reactions when talking about men's rights?

OctoBerry · 2015-02-24T10:47:18+00:00

You're going to get bad reactions any time you challenge someone on their beliefs, most people don't like being told they're wrong and need to reconsider their opinion. The popular opinion is that women need love and support, that women should be cherished and protected. When you challenge that you not only upset them on an intelligence level but also an instinctive level, you're challenging the very core of modern society and asking them to look behind the curtain. It's very uncomfortable to do so and will end in a lot of heart ache when you do.

Best solution is keep talking, be calm and logical, make sure you're informed on the facts and figures so that you can debunk feminism as well as support your men's rights claims. People will still bow to authority in most cases, if you can quote the important figures from reputable sources, then you will force them put a crack in their mental landscape. If enough cracks appear they will end up doubting it, then they will start questioning it and then come to the conclusion that many of us did once we started to ask questions.

You don't have to convert people in one conversation, you only sow the seeds of doubt. When one side of the debate is calm, collected and quoting facts and the other is getting angry and stumbling over themselves, the calm side wins people by the merit of their character alone. Watch any debate and see who you think wins, it will almost always be the person who kept their cool, even if what they said isn't accurate.

chocoboat · 2015-02-24T11:00:21+00:00

Sometimes you just can't. But it helps if you never say "men's rights" and instead say things like "equal rights for everyone", and softened statements like "yes there's plenty of discrimination against women, but there's some discrimination against men too (insert a couple of examples), and we should try to wipe out all of it".

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-02-24T21:57:57+00:00

Speak loudly and carry a concrete-filled rubber chicken, that's my philosophy.

Nice guy or angry guy, you're still going to be seen as a misogynist or such, so you might as well have some fun kicking ass.

MaestroLogical · 2015-02-24T09:43:43+00:00

You're overlooking a key component of Feminism. Conditioning.

There is no solution. No facts or style of presentation will overcome the conditioning. We've all been conditioned to instantly leap to the defense of feminism the moment something negative is mentioned. At that point it is not conscious thought, it's pre-programmed reactions. This is why we hear the same tired ol rhetoric day after day, there is no rationalizing, just blind defense.

Until we can dismantle this notion that Feminism is holy and 100% truth, we'll never make any headway. This is why a large chunk of time is spent pointing out the visible failures of the untouchable movement (As some see it, whining) because we'll never get anywhere as long as the rest of society is running around with blinders on.

Go ahead and try any method you want. Pepper it with truth and evidence. Twist your words so they're softer on delivery... none of it will overcome the conditioning. The sheer fact that the only proponents of the MRA even allowed to be visible are all female is evidence enough that our message doesn't reach them regardless of how we present it.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying we've all been here for years and the level of discourse we currently have is the best it's ever been due to the sheer volume of people waking up and shaking off the conditioning. We've evolved over time to see what works and what doesn't and learned long ago that nothing does. The stigma will remain the same as you saying you were abducted by aliens or that you believe in conspiracies. The conditioning kicks in and anything else you say is meaningless past that point.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-02-24T09:23:52+00:00

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Lrellok · 2015-02-24T14:43:53+00:00

Generaly I find it helps to have a few statistics memorised. "The cdc rape numbers are particularly useful as "men can't be raped" tends to get brought out quickly in most discussions.

5HourEnergyExtra · 2015-02-24T12:45:07+00:00

Be charismatic and choose your audience well.

Ransom_Stoddard · 2015-02-24T12:53:25+00:00

It's unavoidable unless you avoid the discussions to begin with.

guywithaccount · 2015-02-24T17:54:43+00:00

How to avoid getting bad reactions when talking about men's rights?

If this is what you want, choose your audience carefully.

ConfirmedCynic · 2015-02-24T19:00:03+00:00

Talk to people one on one instead of a group. Mention individual issues instead of "mens rights". Don't be strident about it; I find that arguing vigorously doesn't help. Just plant the seed with a few facts and let the subconscious mind nurture it and adopt it.

somebodypurple · 2015-02-24T21:12:08+00:00

not gonna answer the main parts as they've already been very eloquently answered by other commenters, but i'm gonna have to take issue with the idea that we shouldn't talk about female privileges if they don't harm men. first of all, every female privilege pretty much without exception harms men, because female privilege depends on male disposability. but second, explaining female privilege to feminists is one of the best tools we have in introducing them to the rabbit hole. how can they see that women are not oppressed if they are never shown that women have huge advantages in life from day one? how can they see that men are disadvantaged if they aren't shown how women are advantaged?

it's not a zero-sum system, but one group's disadvantage is a function of another group's advantage, and vice versa. the two terms are relative to each other, though not mutually exclusive because we can be advantaged and disadvantaged simultaneously in different ways. the important part is showing feminists the nuance in that point — that the few valid arguments feminists have for why men are privileged do not mean men are, in general, privileged compared to women. they need to see that they have only considered those few areas where men are privileged or seem to be privileged, and that there are several other areas where women are even more privileged and in fact, it seems to add up to women having more privilege in more significant ways than men do. the arguments for feminism tend to be pretty insignificant things like manspreading. the arguments for the MRM tend to be incredibly grave issues like male suicide, circumcision, conscription, child support, alimony, male victims being ignored, blamed, or even falsely accused and imprisoned. these issues are all a hundred times worse than any discrimination that western women deal with on the basis of their gender. we are all at risk of terrible things happening to us, but men are at a much greater risk, and a big part of this risk is directly due to discrimination against men, not just due to aspects of human psychology that can't be changed.

as far as female privilege goes, this is something we can change. we can change female privilege by changing male disposability. we cannot change male privilege because the reasons male privilege seems to exist, in feminist's view, is directly due to physical and psychological facts that can't be changed. men are actively discriminated against. women are actively protected. women being raped is not a social issue. it's something that will never go away. our legal system ignoring male victims of rape? that is a social issue, and it's something that can be fixed. we can't stop rapists from existing, but we can stop enabling them and ignoring their male victims. we can stop assuming all rapists are men and all victims of rape outside of prison are women. we can't stop the fact that men are stronger than women. but we can stop pretending that women are incapable of coercing men into having sex without being stronger than men... i.e. through threat of false accusations, blackmail, extortion, firearms, or other social punishments and the like. a man can beat the hell out of you, or even kill you. but a woman can ruin your life to the point that you want to kill yourself, with incredible ease, and at no real risk. a man who wants to ruin your life is probably going to get in trouble. there's a disincentive. a woman who wants to ruin your life can use the legal system itself to do it, and in doing so, not only protect herself from repercussions, but gain sympathy, attention, and even money. this is female privilege and male discrimination simultaneously.

if women are not aware of the unfair power they hold in the legal system, how can we show them that men are not privileged in this respect? if women are not aware that rape is not a social issue, but how we deal with rape is a social issue, then where are we going with this? are we just paying lip service to ourselves?

the whole point of the MRM is to change the opinions of women, not to comfort ourselves with reaffirmations that we're not all okay with the way things are going. we need actual change, and for that to happen we need more women who aren't either asleep at the wheel, or actively seeking to deliberately mislead the public at the expense of men, for their own profit or for more sadistic ends.

Title	How to avoid getting bad reactions when talking about men's rights?
Author	BrunoShin
Upvotes	17
Comments	18
Date	February 24, 2015 9:23 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2wz2g0/how_to_avoid_getting_bad_reactions_when_talking/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-to-avoid-getting-bad-reactions-when-talking.987392 https://theredarchive.com/post/987392

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