Falling back into RP again.

mammajess · 2022-01-02T17:04:47+00:00

This is just my feminine perspective.

A lot of the attention young women get is horrible. I was once working in a small shop by myself and a man came in during a slow period and we were alone making small talk. He suddenly said "I could take you into the back of the shop and fuck you". I thought he was going to rape me right then, nothing really would have stopped him. I just froze in fear and said nothing. He just kind of stared at me for a while and then left. I went through many unpleasant experiences that scared me starting from when I was 11 y/o. (you can check r/creepyPMs for examples of some of the approaches young women get that make them feel upset or scared)

I decided VERY early in life (maybe I was 19 y/o) that sexualised attention men gave me had little meaning and not to invest in it or base my self esteem on it. I mean really most of it isn't even offered with good intentions! It's not even friendly, let alone loving. It would be given to any other person with a young female body and had nothing to do with ME. I decided only to value attention related to who I am as a person in addition to any superficial attraction.

In my experience women I have known have not devalued men or only based their worth on economics, beyond women with jobs expecting their partners to also have a job. I also never had friends who wanted significantly older boyfriends. Older men who gave us attention were always considered gross. Almost everyone I ever knew was in a relationship where the age gap is 5 or less years. Dating statistics bear this out, most couples are within a few years of each other on average. I've known many cases where both people had the same economic potential or the woman had more. Right now I have greater economic potential than my husband. This may not be true in the future but it is true now.

The single biggest complaint I have heard about men from women for decades now is communication skills, lack of consideration, and even abuse. It's essential for a healthy relationship that people care for and nurture each other and pay attention to each others needs, so when either party doesn't do that it kills the relationship.

As for men having confidence and needing some good feedback I agree that would be nice. Unfortunately, we have formed a society where women like me who are outgoing and like to give men direct positive feedback get stigmatised. Now of course I have gotten over that with time but it's harder when you are younger. People say that women shouldn't approach men first because the man will think the woman is "easy" and then devalue her. That isn't actually true in my experience but the fact people state this kind of "rule" over and over really fucks up women's confidence. If we freed women up, instead of yelling angy RP slut shaming things at them, then women would be more likely to approach men and give them compliments etc.

EntertainmentNeat592 · 2022-01-02T19:01:27+00:00

How do you find an old rich men have more value than a young one? You do know most young women date and marry young men of similar status right? When women marry old rich men they are most likely to divorce them. Ironically, a lot of attention young women receives are from old and rich men and in my experience most of us find it creepy and disheartening. So, essentially such attention are futile.

Society do put certain value on youth and money for both men and women and young men are valued for their strength, health, vitality etc. The only time either old man or woman are valued is if they have money, though money doesn’t compensate for youth for men anymore than it compensate for women.

AntiVictimhood · 2022-01-02T17:53:09+00:00

I'd push back on this "inherent value" concept.

Yes, women get more attention and it's not common to compliment a man's appearance.

But here's the thing, as a woman your appearance is one of the most central parts of who you are. And all of this attention on how you look has major downsides as well. While people more openly compliment a woman, they're also way more harsh in their judgments and expectations of how a woman is meant to look. There is so much more inspection and examination of women's bodies. There is a reason that over 90% of all plastic surgery procedures are done on women. Men are not held to this same standard of being youthful, beautiful, sexy, and seductive.

Additionally, since there is less societal emphasis on men's appearance- they're allowed to age! And they're allowed to move through life being able to approximate some masculine ideal. There is literally no female equivalent to the "silver fox". Women of all ages are held to this same standard of having no wrinkles, no greys, being hairless, staying fit and curvy, having long healthy hair, being not too fat but not too thin. And yes it is easier for some young women to approximate this ideal, but it's impossible for older women to approximate this ideal.

Whereas men can be hairless and buff, they can have a dad bod, are allowed to age and have grey hair and their wrinkles add "character" to their face, whereas women with wrinkles are ridiculed and invalidated.

The centrality of women's body and appearance does lead to more attention and shallow validation, but it also has major consequences, pressures, and standards that are virtually impossible to maintain without surgical intervention.

In addition to these intense standards and uniform beauty standard that women are expected to adhere to, it also makes you feel very unseen and unacknowledged for your accomplishments, interests, and character traits. When beauty is put first, all the things that you are proud of and that you like about yourself are downplayed.

A man is always seen for his accomplishments and status whether he is overweight and unattractive or in shape and very attractive. And men are always framed as being deserving of their achievements.

The reality as an attractive woman is constantly hearing belittling comments from men. When my male professors would compliment my work and comment on my ideas- other guys would say it's because he found me attractive. When I got a promotion at work, some men chalked it up to my looks rather than the fact that I was the most qualified and competent person in that position.

But when you're an unattractive woman and don't adhere to the beauty standards, you're not really seen. For generations, older women have been talking about how they age into invisibility and once they no longer approximate beauty ideals, are totally ignored despite their strengths, accomplishments, and virtues. I'd really invite you to read this article from 1972 that discusses the ways women are devalued in society when they fail to adhere to beauty standards. It might give you a different perspective. https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/english/currentstudents/undergraduate/modules/literaturetheoryandtime/susan_sontag_the_double_standard_of_aging.pdf.

Now- to change gears here, attention does not mean that all the dudes sliding into women's DMs are good options. If all you're considering here is that women get more compliments than men do- yeah that is likely true. But it doesn't mean women have an easier time dating.

In today's age, a lot of guys are just looking for hookups. And they are willing to go to intense lengths to show their interest and invest in a woman until they have sex. And once they do, the effort dies and the woman is blamed for not "picking" better.

Simply look at TRP community, so much of it is centred on having a roster of women, learning how to manipulate women, how to get them to sleep with you etc.

So this is the shit that single women are dealing with. It's not fun, flattering, or validating to be in this position. Nor is it flattering to be acknowledged primarily for one's appearance, and to have your complexity ignored or dismissed. Look at the way RP gurus encourage men to interact with women. Put yourself in a woman's shoes, does that treatment sound fun to you? Does it sound fulfilling and flattering? If dealing with disgruntled misogynists who are just trying to get laid is the reward for women's alleged "inherent value", then we don't want it.

I'd also challenge the way "inherent value" is defined. If the argument is that all women have inherent value, what's with all the denigration, insults, and "humbling" that takes place in the manosphere? This obsession with "humbling" women by many RP gurus goes to show that whatever "inherent value" is clearly not there if they're so vocal to ascribe women with a number and then list all the reason she is sexually ineligible and undesirable.

If the "inherent value" is looks based, then this is not inherent value, it is just the normal advantages that come from being attractive whether you're a man or women. Which means that this value is not inherent and it is not gendered, it's just the fact that attractive people will attract more potential partners than less attractive people.

I am very happy that I no longer deal with this since I've been partnered for years at this point. But being single was not fun and flattering when you'd have to sort through this

Granted, there are women who play into their looks and seem to really live for that validation. But the average woman is not having the time of her life dating guys who mask their true intentions and desires.

FreakyKitten_8 · 2022-01-02T23:26:14+00:00

Woman here. First, all human beings are valuable, ok? You included. Women don't have it easier, dating is hard for us too, we also get insecure and we don't always have the greatest social skills either. We get dumped a lot and most guys only want sex when many of us want a serious relationship and our hearts get broken a lot. We also have a lot of pressure from society to look our best too. We must be thin with big boobs and big butt and perfect face. These beauty standards are impossible for most of us. Dating is also more dangerous for us, the worst thing young men usually go through when dating is getting rejected a lot, which does suck, however if women aren't careful with which men we do accept we could end up getting raped, trafficked, beaten, and even killed. We can also end up pregnant, and if the father walks out we're stuck alone with an unwanted pregnancy. So we take more risks than men do simply because of our biology. Now I'm not saying all men are violent or bad guys, most aren't bad, but men do have a physical advantages and we have no way in knowing who we can trust at first so we have to be careful to make sure we're not falling for someone who could cause us physical harm. With that aside, just because women get more attention on social media doesn't mean it's better or always good. I hate the attention, I don't want it so I prefer not to post my picture much. It's not fun getting unsolicited creepy perverted messages and dick pics from strange men who have absolutely no interest in knowing me as a person and they just want to sexually harass or they think they might have a small chance I will sleep with them. As for older men with money, do you really think all of us want old men? Especially young women? Yes there are gold diggers but they're outliers, most young women don't want to date old men for money and those who do well I find that to be immoral but ultimately that's their decision. But please understand that most women aren't like that. Plus women can have careers now, we can make our own money. With that our standards are higher so yeah you will have to be more confident. But more confidence isn't a bad thing, it's a valuable social skill which is useful in other aspects of life, not just for dating. Just try to understand that the picture red pill paints women is not entirely correct, in fact it's mostly false with some small exceptions. There's plenty of valuable dating advice for men that isn't red pill, perhaps check out those alternatives because the RP is not going to help you, they are grifters who want you to remain single or an Incel (if that's your case) so they can keep taking your money. And even if the RP gives you some success, you're more likely to attract dysfunctional women ending up in codependence, which isn't healthy for either of you. And also please realize that both sexes have advantages and disadvantages when it comes to dating, it's hard for both. The cards aren't as stacked up against you as the RP claims, I'm sure you have plenty of good to offer not just to women but to the world, you just have to work on finding it and also see the value in others, and when I say value I mean good traits, not superficial traits like beauty and money, look for the inner beauty of people, and within yourself.

throwawaygang21 · 2022-01-03T10:17:20+00:00

"that women have “inherent” value while a young man dosent have any value unless he’s old and rich. "

Women don't have "inherent value". Do you think rappers and actors are inviting just ANY woman backstage? Do you think every woman gets to be prom queen? Do you think ALL women that stream on Twitch have tons of views? Do you not have normal looking female friends, cousins, aunts, coworkers, or classmates who are just normal women that work normal jobs and date average men? Ugly, fat, & old women do not have "inherent value" pretty women do, and not just pretty women but pretty women that are willing to be used for their bodies. A pretty woman doesn't make it on Twitch a lot of times without showing off her body. A pretty woman doesn't make it backstage with a rapper unless she has sex with him. Women don't have "inherent value" pretty women who are willing to be used to arouse men are given value in exchange for their sex appeal & bodies

"I know it’s shallow to say this but a slightly above average women can post a picture and receive compliments while a man gets none"

That's true, but I notice a lot of men think that women are only attracted to Chads and that would explain why average women get tons of DM's & compliments while average men don't but the reality is that men's interest is visible while women's interest is invisible. What I mean is that if a woman walked by you on the street or saw your profile online and she thought you were cute, you would literally never know because women are socialized to be passive and be approached while in the reverse situation men are much more likely to shoot their shot by commenting on a woman's photos, DMing her, or approaching her. so the reason you're not getting any attention is because as a man you have to go out and find the girls who want to give you attention, also it's important to realize a lot of the attention women get is creepy, threatening, & unwanted. TRP states that Tinder is so awful for men, but rigged in favor of women, yet statistically there are MORE men on dating websites than women. If you do a bit of research on what women think of online dating you'll find a lot of them dont use it or outright hate it.

"Yet he’s supposed to have confidence out of thin air??I know I need therapy but I’m not sure if these thoughts will ever go away."

It's okay, I have these thoughts too sometimes. The reason why TRP sounds so accurate is because it uses nuggets of truth to it. When TRP says "women" they mean attractive women. Even when they say "average women" they mean a cute "girl next door" type chick, not the chunky girl at the Walmart checkout that you didn't even notice. TRP talks about "easy mode", but ignores the existence of men who were born 6"3 and extremely attractive who have women lined up without trying.

Just try to remember that there's always a female version of whatever oppressed male you're envisioning. TRP's issues stem from a victim complex of comparing below average men to above average women.

LadyKitana · 2022-01-03T14:49:03+00:00

I do believe that if you have an interest in a man, give him a compliment in a genuine way. Men do face challenges in dating I am sympathetic to it, I don’t advocate cruelly rejecting a man for no reason. It can be difficult to approach women especially in public. I tell guys don’t get upset if a woman won’t go home on a first date, yes there is a chance she may not be interested but if she express that’s she want to see you again, she just wants to feel safe.

Yes the average women does get a lot of attention online, however to repeat what most of the other women have said it’s not all good. Go visit nice guy Reddit, you will get an idea of the kind of message we will get.

When I go on a date with a man, my friends know where I am and are checking on me via text. If they don’t get a response in a certain time they know what to do. I understand that it’s not fair to the guy that we have to think like this, I know not all men will harm a woman however the sad reality is we could end up being assaulted or killed. I have been followed, cursed out, felt unsafe just going about my day. Most women are assaulted and killed by men they know so imagine a stranger!

Young women do not want much older men, usually it’s within five to seven years. It also depends on the age range, women in her thirties, dating a man in late forties is fine. But to say these 40 plus men are getting with a twenty year old, is very rare these men have a lot of money and if don’t last long. I see men hanging out at the bars trying to get younger ones and it’s creepy as fuck. The women avoided them

Mh882130 · 2022-01-02T15:57:45+00:00

Women have an easier time attracting short term dates partners and validation of existence then men.

But the catch is much of the above is not the type they want; is not sustainable and can be just as addicting and life destroying as being forever alone.

The catch for being forever alone is you don’t deal with much of peoples stupidity; bs and other negative traits of humanity and avoid much non self inflicted trauma.

In terms of short term dating men tend to fare worse because in a value based society were mens value is productivity and superficiality most men have no value and have to build it.

While women especially those in the superficial qualities have more value but if they do not build themselves to be authentic and great people to be around, then when it comes time to switch into long term mating strategy those women do not just fair way less, they are mostly left behind and have to settle because they thought that their superficial value (which essentially is similar to talent) was all that mattered not what their true value as a person is.

The same could be said for attractive and other superficial trait men, though those men still need to put more effort than women.

The point here is men have to work on themselves in the beginning to build value, women have to work on themselves in the beginning to maintain the value they were given.

And by working on value here I mean creating the values that correlate to what they want in a partner as like attracts like in most healthily long lasting relationships.

Nervous_Resident7401 · 2022-01-02T16:59:41+00:00

IMO all Men should be RP aware. its not gospel, but certainly helps explain gender relations from the male POV. Keep your head up and improve yourself. Your time will come ✌️

petaura · 2022-01-02T19:10:27+00:00

I'm sick of this nonsense. Where to start? One thing I don't understand about RedPill is that it tells you: oh, men and women are different! And then five minutes in it tells you that women take attention the same way men do. Uh, but you have more options for sex! Uh-huh, and? it's like you're telling me: but hey! A lot of guys want to use your body to masturbate without even knowing you! Isn't that great? No, it's not. I'm sorry, I'm not sorry. I want a real relationship with a human being; if men don't mind having sex with someone they barely know that's their business, not mine. You can tell me what you want in this regard, but from what I've read, women have less sex drive than men. Or at least I fall into that category. And I have to be pleased that someone I don't know wants to sleep with me? Oh...well...

There's also the issue of: but women get a lot of likes/attention or whatever. Yeah, boy, so? All those men who give me their like, already gave it to hundreds of other women. All the men who look at me today, have looked at other women and invited them that same day. I'm competing with women more attractive than me or with other qualities for a mostly casual relationship. I'll tell you something: I made myself a dating app, I could only meet with one guy. I dated him for a couple of weeks and then he stopped messaging me Why? That guy seemingly simple to have because of my amount of options and the scarcity of his got a girlfriend.Why? Because I wasn't the only one he gave attention to during those weeks. And no, he wasn't "Chad", just a guy who was much more sociable than me and who was bound to meet people because of his job (he did electrical installations in people's homes on the side). There it is. It really seemed like a RedPill lie to me at the time. It was disappointing and depressing to me.

And well, as a person who has spent my teenage years on the internet and social media...I've never had hundreds of likes in my life, nor hundreds of messages. (Unless you mean messages from Reddit incels saying they will rape/kill me for their physical strength, among other things...) and I think that would be irrelevant anyway. A like is ephemeral, it's still not a more real conversation or interaction.

And well, as they've said in the comments, most of the attention is horrible. Even if the guy at first sends you a nice message, if you're slow to reply or don't accept his advances, he may end up insulting you. It's like you can only see a brief kind face on men if they see that for a moment they have a choice to sleep with you and once they see that's not the case, they turn to...shit. Interactions outside of social media? In my case: a guy who at first looked like he was cute, ignored me while I tried to chat him up and then made me play Uno to basically shut me up. And...I have to count as positive attention inappropriate physical approaches from my boss while we were alone in the store...?

Finally, I'm not saying it's not true that maybe we get more attention, and maybe for some people something positive comes out of it, but I think it gets blown way out of proportion.

Edit: What little enthusiasm I had for sex ended up being killed in the RedPill. RedPill: But you have plenty of options for sex! Also RedPill: Oh, but women with high body counts are psychologically affected trash. Yes? Well, I'm not taking any chances.

unlivedbread · 2022-01-03T05:06:01+00:00

The way I always look at it is this

Why do women laugh at men who fail shit tests? They laugh because it's pathetic (sorta). And its pathetic because men have intrinsic power and when its not realized then it almost is kinda pathetic. We have testosterone that makes our bones harder to break, our muscles stronger, it makes us far more assertive so that we can effect change in the world. You're an agent of change as a man, you have a presence, and when you don't realize it, girls, and people, in general, will treat you contemptuously for it, because in a sense you're being lazy, cowardly or just plain ignorant. In that sense you have intrinsic value as a man, and when you realize it and embody it, people will randomly compliment you on all sorts of shit.

Burns-so-good · 2022-01-03T11:34:42+00:00

There is nothing wrong with the RP fundamentally. Don't resist it.

Temerity2 · 2022-01-02T22:05:12+00:00

All that stuff is true though and not confined to TRP

MeadWithTheBros · 2022-01-02T22:20:19+00:00

I mean everything you said is undeniably true…

Title	Falling back into RP again.
Author	Sorry-Watercress4589
Upvotes	8
Comments	35
Date	January 2, 2022 3:24 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/rubsfs/falling_back_into_rp_again/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/falling-back-into-rp-again.1093128 https://theredarchive.com/post/1093128

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