Having problems keeping a neutral perspective on women and marriage.

palacesofparagraphs · 2018-11-26T19:34:52+00:00

Stop thinking of women as a group and start thinking of them as individuals. One of the biggest disservices heteronormativity has done us (and there have been so many) is imposing on us the idea that men and women are fundamentally different from one another, and that we're opponents rather than teammates in a relationship. Men and women certainly have differences, but at the end of the day we're all individuals with a variety of complex qualities. Furthermore, any relationship, romantic or platonic, should involve both parties working together, not against each other.

Think about a family member with whom you have a good relationship, preferably one who's a guy. Your father, your brother, an uncle, a cousin, etc. Think about the things that make that relationship good. Now, do you have a friend who has a bad relationship with that same family member of theirs? Like, if you get on really well with your dad, do you have any friends who don't get on with their dads? Probably, right? But that doesn't tell you anything fundamental about the nature of father/son relationships. The fact that they're father and son impacts the dynamic between them, but who the individuals are and how they treat each other is what makes the relationship the way it is.

Romantic relationships are the same way. All people have varies vices and virtues; that's what makes some people compatible while others aren't. All people can also decide how they're going to treat their partner and communicate with them, and that plays a huge role in how healthy the relationship is. When you date a woman, she isn't going to behave a particular way because she's a woman. She's going to behave how she does because she's kind, or smart, or petty, or jealous, or insecure, or a gazillion things. Women can be manipulative, but so can men, and they can just as easily not be. A healthy relationship involves two people who communicate clearly and honestly with one another, and who respect each other's wants and needs.

We as a society have normalized unhappy relationships. We make jokes about the ball and chain, about lazy husbands, about wives who spend too much money, etc. These things aren't normal. The person you're with should make you happy. When they do something that hurts or upsets you, you should be able to tell them and together work it out. If that's not the case, then your relationship is not a healthy one and you shouldn't be in it. We need to all hold ourselves and our partners to a higher standard. You are not doomed to be stuck in an unhappy marriage. Don't tolerate that. Expect more for yourself.

withlacoochee · 2018-11-26T20:32:01+00:00

So I’m a woman whose last two male partners were abusive. My dad left when I was a baby and my mom dated abusive men. I certainly could justify the idea that all men are abusive and manipulative given that the close relationships I’ve had with them have been that way. But I know that’s not the case. I know I was predisposed to seek out abusive men thanks to my upbringing, and I understand that there are men out there who are not horrible. It’s important to recognize that a few experiences do not speak for all members of one gender.

I don’t date women, so it would be easy for me to assume that women are the “good ones” in a relationship as I haven’t personally experienced the bad things they can do to their partners. It’s really easy to think that relationship problems are primarily caused by women when you don’t have relationships with men.

Additionally, you’re not hearing the wives’ side of the story. I’m sure they have complaints about their husbands. We humans can be whiny, and we can also be pretty shitty towards the ones we love, regardless of gender. It’s definitely not a mark of a healthy relationship to complain about your spouse to your friends/family on the regular, so as another commenter was saying, please don’t think this is how it always is or how it should be.

bluescrew · 2018-11-27T03:52:43+00:00

I used to know men who complained about their wives all the time and acted like marriage was something they were tricked into. But I gradually stopped hanging out with them. Including family. I replaced negative, miserable, hateful people with smart, kind, open, fulfilled people in my life.

All my friends have good things to say about their partners, and if something negative comes up the rest of us are quick to remind them to talk directly to their partner and work it out if they can, instead of just avoiding the conversation and complaining to everyone else instead. All my friends maintain good boundaries and work to make every relationship more healthy than the last one. Most of them are in therapy to facilitate their emotional growth and stop harmful patterns before they take hold.

I prefer friends who are brave enough to end a bad relationship and be free to move on, instead of wasting months or years simmering in their resentment, or cheating which is cowardly and lazy.

I don't know if my husband complains about my spending, but I make more than him and we keep separate bank accounts and split the bills so it wouldn't make much sense if he did.

VastScene · 2018-11-26T20:11:54+00:00

Well, not everyone who disagrees with marriage is a red piller. I'm all about love and happiness, but I don't think marriage is the best way to go (for me, I should say). Also, you can be cautious with people you meet and date but not be paranoid. MGTOW doesn't own the rights to anti-marriage attitudes or disliking individual women who behave poorly.

OnkelMickwald · 2018-11-27T10:50:23+00:00

Basically almost every man I met had an issue with their marriage and complained about how much money their wife spends, how controlling their wife is and how women only want to hear what they themselves have to say.

Listen to a bunch of women talk about their husbands and you'll start thinking all men are childish, aggressive, emotionally extortive, or what have you.

If you only listen to men complaining about their wives, of course this is what you'll end up believing.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2018-11-27T04:43:20+00:00

Be pragmatic and keep always control of your life and finances. You can have loving, fulfilling relationships with women whilst keeping yourself protected and safe. No need to suffer anxiety when you can have control as long as you keep it to yourself.

The men complaining decided to give that away and now they are paying for it. You can avoid that. There's women out there who will happily be with you without you having to surrender your finances and freedoms to them.

Also, do not get married under any circumstances and, unless you are really into the idea, do not have kids.

PracticalKoala · 2018-11-26T19:42:53+00:00

I would say that this definitely can happen, and is happening in a lot of marriages today. The MGTOW perspective does not come out of nowhere. It is founded in many anecdotes and real experiences of men.

However, there is no reason to be dogmatic about it. Just because you marry a woman does not mean she will turn your life into a nightmare. It is just not that simple. It depends on the woman, you, the relationship, the cultural and social environment, etc. etc. A lot of factors play into this and you cannot accurately predict the outcome of a marriage based on a bunch of stories.

That said, I hear your pain I also find such signals discouraging, and I myself am not comfortable with the idea of marriage or kids yet. I am however actually dating and pursuing a real relationship, which is completely new to me. Just go at your own pace. Baby steps. Do what you are comfortable with and try to at least not to harm girls if you are not ready to engage with them yet.

Uncommon_Sensed_1234 · 2018-11-28T00:01:38+00:00

Marriage has never been known as a happy institution. The men complain as a form of comradity and the women do the same. A lot of times there are one-up stories as to whose wife or husband is worse. It is a way to safely release stress and bond with members of the same sex.

EL_Miore · 2018-12-12T23:01:26+00:00

Dude, DON'T get married. You can form any relationship you want but marriage is indefinitely an awful idea in the modern age.

HyraxiaRJ37 · 2019-01-07T15:15:50+00:00

I'd say realize that this is a two way street. Women have many gripes about men and the abuses they must face because of men as well. Realize that we are not enemies and we are not all that different just because of an arbitrary thing like what genitalia with which we happened to be born. Women and men are all just people being people. Some women will hurt you, yes. But some men will too. And vice versa women and men will hurt women as well. It is the way of the world sadly. For your own sake, I hope you will be able to move past this and embrace love instead of hatred. The unfortunate thing about hatred is that the loneliest one is the one who feels it for others rather than the ones on the receiving end.

Title	Having problems keeping a neutral perspective on women and marriage.
Author	J-dude720
Upvotes	21
Comments	19
Date	November 26, 2018 7:21 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/a0mi5r/having_problems_keeping_a_neutral_perspective_on/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/having-problems-keeping-a-neutral-perspective-on.299945 https://theredarchive.com/post/299945

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