If not TRP/PUA then what?

BigAngryDinosaur · 2016-11-27T22:36:00+00:00

TRP/PUA seems to be the most logical and systematic approach to solve the issue.

You need a lot more than I can cover in a reddit post, but I want to touch on something that a lot of young guys on reddit and the internet are completely lost about, a problem that leads to really laughable nonsense like RedPill and Pickup Arts, which may work to land a one-night-stand if that's all you really want in life, but if you want to have more, if you want romance and a partner and a good relationship, you have to understand:

Relationships and connecting with another person is rarely logical and systematic.

Part of the issue is that to be able to understand and live with someone else is that you need to be able to feel the full range of human emotion and understand it and be able to ride that emotion along with your reason and intellect.

You've done great things to improve yourself, if you were trying to make yourself in a perfect sample of humankind to be preserved in a museum. But have you stretched? Have you done things to make you very uncomfortable? You're in therapy, that's great, but are your aims for therapy becoming emotionally mature and strong enough with yourself to handle the spectrum of feelings in another human, or are you trying to become a paper-doll of normality?

I have no idea what your further situation is like or what your limitations may be, but trust me when I say you have to be able to drop systems and reason and even basic concepts of fairness and logic at times when you're looking for love with another person. You have to accept very hard things about yourself, you have to be able to laugh, cry and be totally nonsensical and then pull out of it at the drop of a hat. The only way you do this is by living life. Maybe it will take you more time, maybe you need something else. Maybe you need to crash and burn and recover. Maybe you need to plan a trip to climb a mountain in the Andes, end up breaking your leg in the attempt, spend six months recovering in south-American hospital where you befriend a nurse's family and end up spending the summer helping them rebuild their house and find out that their beautiful, cute little daughter is terminally sick and watch her health decline until you're staring out at the sky one night questioning everything about life, feeling lonely and small and crushed by the weight of everything you're feeling.

Maybe you need better meds. Either way, nobody wants to be with someone who systematically tackles everything in their life. Your romantic partner will want someone passionate, otherwise they sell RealDolls in either gender.

RedMedi · 2016-11-28T18:23:23+00:00

I have to say that you are setting yourself up to fail with all the negative self-talk. You claim to not be good with women. I hope you realise that man/woman isn't a particularly useful distinction. People may share far more in common with members of the opposite sex than their own gender.

There is no "women" there's Alexa, Jodie, Harper, Lucy etc. There is no one size fits all as there is a huge variety in what individuals find attractive.

It sounds like you have built yourself a decent lifestyle. However, what are your stories? What makes you an interesting, intriguing person?

I think you are trapped in a low self-esteem cycle. If only I could get laid, then I would be worthy. No, brother, you are already worthy of love and intimacy. All you have to do is put yourself out there and ask out attractive women.

I'm on a similar journey to you and have a solid self-esteem. I'm a little preoccupied with my lack of success but I know that is no reflection on my value as a person or potential partner. I've had more dates in the last 6 months than the preceding 23 years. Confidence is so critical in portraying yourself as engaging person.

wazzup987 · 2016-11-28T02:01:34+00:00

You have done every thing to fit a mold, but are you being your authenticate self? I mean be the best version of your self, no doubt but are you being true to your self? Do you have the confidence to be yourself and not care if you get rejected because your respect yourself more than the prospect of a(n easy) lay? it just whats its always been confidence man. (its jsut as true for women too.)

it doesn't matter weather your hot or ugly without confidence and personality you're screwed either way.

JaggedYellowPill · 2016-11-27T16:34:28+00:00

Through the reflection and self-improvement you're describing above, have you been able to identify the factor(s) that are barriers to ending up with a woman? You imply negativity and depression may have to do with it but are there others? Examples that sometimes trip people up include unrealistic standards/expectations and failing to put yourself out there.

I know it sounds glib but once you identify the barriers it's just a matter of overcoming them.

Also, how are you defining "success with women?" Just trying to get laid or is a relationship your endgame?

bones_and_love · 2016-11-28T03:21:24+00:00

Looks like you've got all the "you" stuff out of the way, keep focusing on that, but don't forget about the "them" stuff. Them stuff is being social. Are you doing anything to socialize more and truly enjoy other people? Do you love culture and art? Start loving different cultures and art, start paying attention to the details of every human you encounter. Each one is a complex story borne of a different starting context.

You don't have to be a world class speaker or be a leader of a thousand, but you do have to put yourself out there and grow into a socially functioning adult. People who are unsuccessful with women generally are unsuccessful with everyone. It's a chicken-and-the-egg, awful situation. They don't put themselves out there, because they suck at it. They suck at it, because they don't put themselves out there.

Getting past that is going to be largely you overcoming fears of failure and getting the experience you need to grow. These are the main things to do:

Get out there and experience.
Retrospect lightly on your experiences and see if you can piece together what was good and fun and what wasn't.
Lightly retrospect on what others did that was good and fun, impressive.
LAST AND LEAST, you can read up on some 'theory'. There's thousands of books on this very topic each with its own level of pessimism, level of bro science vs real science, and level of manipulation. You can probably start with some best sellers and move forward from there. But honestly, focus on getting your own groundwork xp + internalizing it by retrospecting. Guidance when someone has no practical experience will guide fantasy instead anything actually meaningful.

I also personally recommend letting loose a little. I think testing your own assumptions and your own idea of craziness is a large component in being social. If you test yourself and find you were wrong all along, you become much more understanding of differing views from others you may not agree with. You become wiser and more likable. The easy one is doing some party drugs at parties. You've always heard of meth, it's always been the scariest most taboo thing ever. If you research it, you'll find that snorting a line of meth and going clubbing once every 5 months isn't a big deal at all. You'll become humbler by the experience as well as have a good fucking time. Super religious people have similar experiences when they rework their understandings of how promiscuous you can be without being a scumbag pile of shit. They may start at the ideal of "only after marriage" and eventually whittle it all the way down to "yeah sure, I'll do a one night stand every now and then!" Focus on your fears, taboos, and discomforts. Conquer them by personally experiencing what you apparently detest. It doesn't have to be drugs or sex, but they're the easiest examples.

If you ask me, that's why so many social teens go through a very similar thing while in high school. They dress funny [goth, punk, etc.], they listen to weird music, they do drugs, they fuck around, they break the law in other ways [vandalizing, etc.]. These are all examples of breaking past one's own idea of what's ok and what isn't by actually examining what it is they apparently detested. Now, I'm not saying become a whining goth or go rob a bank. But questioning your own version of 'what's ok to wear' or 'what's ok to listen to' or 'what's ok to do' makes you a better person at dealing with others since others are always different from you.

At the end of that type of exploration, you are always left a little more open-minded and social. You start to see there are two sides to every story, pros and cons to every behavior. At the end of it, you may still not agree with the stuff you did -- that's fine and great. Now you have more resolve and understanding of why you make that choice constantly every day going forward. You can now explain yourself in a more balanced, impressive way. You'll be more likely to connect in your explanation even if giving it to a person that enjoys the taboo since your description will be closer to reality rather than an abstract philosophical point unguided by real-world understandings. Perhaps the most eloquent way to say it is focus on psychology, not sociology. The former is about a person, the latter a society. If you are justifying your single-person behavior or judging the single-person behavior of people you meet based on multi-people aggregate tendencies (teased out by statistics), you are a buzzkill and on the wrong track. Think about the implications of doing such a thing. You're kind of saying, "My purview here in this country is to prescribe behavioral doses to remedy our society's problems." Get off your high horse! And also, stop unfairly judging single instruments of societal outcome, a single person, who may or may not be contributing to the overarching statistical ensemble.

Even pithier and still to the point: Be empathetic. Understand.

RedPillDetox · 2016-11-28T14:02:24+00:00

In addition to all the advise here, have you considered following the work of Mark Manson or Doctor Nerdlove? They write alternative dating advise for guys who are done with PUA or Red Pill.

kellyanonymous · 2016-12-02T11:06:49+00:00

Your logical and systemic brain could be a strength.

You have great potential to meet someone. You just need to let go of something: Sounds as though to me you're so ready to judge someone so you can then judge yourself and be better or appear a particular way. You seem very concerned about the image you present which will mean it will be a real struggle to connect with anyone if you are so caught up in that. You are much too preoccupied with what's going on in your head, how you present etc

Real human connections come from regular conversations, people want you to care about them and learn about them and have a connection with them just as you want from a woman. Meet someone and just ask about them. Even if it comes from a systemic place, go through a logical sequence of getting to know the woman, learning about her and vice versa. If your brain works very systemically, use that as a strength. If used well, it could be a great strength in a relationship, just learn more about people and their needs and you'll be able to logically go through the steps of meeting someone. Fight the need to constantly pull apart what she says and how she is and constantly focus on your logical process of getting to know her objectively, then it fits more with your systemic way of thinking

pathein_mathein · 2016-11-28T00:16:39+00:00

I do not think I'm entitled to anything...

Then stop there!

There are lots of points in your post worthy of further discussion if you want, but that's what shouts at me. TRP would even agree on the Just World Fallacy (albeit apply it differently). This shit doesn't make sense. The range of control is particularly circumspect. The systemic logic is at best a crutch that demands a piece of your soul, at worst a lie, and in either case denial over the truth that's much more scary. It is a brutal lesson that most people find a cheat around, but it's at the heart of what's holding you back.

stillaliveatage89 · 2016-12-05T16:06:56+00:00

I"m not one of these people but the people I know that have happy relationships just kind of had them. Now. In real time.

They didn't worry about their own perfection or the perfection of who they were with

I think you are doing what I did wrong, which is telling myself I have no business finding someone unless both of us are perfect, which isn't a reality. It makes us come down really hard on ourselves and everybody else.

circlhat · 2016-12-05T20:02:43+00:00

Sometimes you just have to fuck it, do what you want and stop letting others define you, I was taught as a male my purpose in life was to make women happy, I said fuck that did my own thing, got called a womanizer, women hater, and yet I have girls begging to have sex with me.

Point is, no one cares about you, they care about themselves and their narrative, you are a tool if you let people use you, break some rules dude.

One of the easiest ways to get laid is to be yourself and put it out there that you want accept anything less , you also need to learn to deal with rebuttals , which is easy, just keep it real, let her know who you are and what you want, if she isn't down, walk away.

epicure-pen · 2016-12-13T11:30:02+00:00

It sounds like you are really being held back by your existential worries and disgust for human nature. You said your disgust for human nature affects how you see yourself, but does it also affect how you see women? Human nature is complex, but it isn't all bad. We have the ability and drive to form deep friendships, derive joy from intellectual pursuits, build communities, appreciate beauty and art, and engage with morality.

What else? Build and strengthen your friendships. Go out and meet people, make new friends. Take up a hobby/new activity if it would help you meet people, such as a sport or other social, physical activity. Make friends with girls. If you feel a spark, pursue it. If not, they will be invaluable resources to teach you about women, develop your care and empathy for women, and set you up with some of their friends. Ask your friends if they know anyone who might be good for you. Try online dating, or get Tindr and go on some blind dates.

redpillanalyst · 2016-12-19T01:09:11+00:00

@ifnottrpthenwhat:

There is two things that stand out from your post:

The very analytic systemic approach looks to me like you could be on the asperger / autistic spectrum. There is EQ / SQ and AQ tests on the internet. It might be that specific treatment / self-help for that could profit you better than the generic treatment you have received so far.
TRP has useful advice and with the mind you seem to have you will likely be able to "connect the dots" on many of the observations you make (and then adjust your behavior accordingly - and no that does not mean disrespect or bad behavior), but the problem is you need to filter out a lot of the garbage, too.

And likely most things will only stimulate your analytic side of things, but there you already seem to be great, so thinking even more and having even more rules in social situations won't most likely not help you, but rather make you even more insecure. The reason for that is, that it is very hard to really truly analyze situations just analytically - there is just too much data to process.

A good analogy here is: Machine Learning

If you ever have tried to analyze real world things (texts, speech, hand writing) just analytically with a given algorithm, it either takes a very very long time and very complex programs (and even then the result is sub-par) or it just does not work at all.

The solution for todays machine learning is fuzzy-matching, (recurrent) neural networks, genetic algorithms, etc.

They all have in common that they are not precise and you can get results, but often they are not perfectly optimal.

And that is the same with real life:

You need to use your right-side brain and/or your emotional brain and develop skills to ensure you can process the sensor input correctly.

And for that you need to train your own "neural network" on feelings, empathy and other things. That can be hard.

But I can give you one advice, which usually works as a good training ground:

Learn to dance a partner dance (preferably Salsa, Tango, Ballroom, Swing)

The logical reason: This is a safe environment, where you can learn to interact with women on a different basis and also learn to trust your feelings.

I would also advise to just get a lot of female friends (for example through the dance classes) and start doing fun things with them (that you enjoy, too).

And the last thing:

"What do YOU want to experience with your future wife/GF?"
"What makes you tick?"
"What do you enjoy and what would you like to share with someone?"

TRP would now say its the emotions you need to "control".

But lets forget the control part (which is just an inefficient technique to exercise power) and practice some empathy:

Would you not like your future GF/wife to lead an exciting and fun life?
Would it not be great to be with someone, who really excites you? - - Who you really enjoy spending your time with?

And if that is true for you, it might as well be true for the girl of your dreams. So if you are able to become the person that leads a happy and satisfied, exciting life, and then invite others for the ride, they will probably join you :).

Title	If not TRP/PUA then what?
Author	ifnottrpthenwhat
Upvotes	7
Comments	39
Date	November 27, 2016 4:10 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/5f5yuz/if_not_trppua_then_what/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/if-not-trppua-then-what.300356 https://theredarchive.com/post/300356

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