Addressing the limitations by which discourse can be useful with misandrist groups.

eli_ashe · 2024-04-15T01:32:48+00:00

The connectivity between Trump and feministas is widely overlooked.

The fear mongering bout 'bad hombres' of whatever hue or disposition is deeply embedded within the feministas, Trump is their embodiment. Just vitriolic hatred. Especially as it relates to conservative women.

To OP's point on discussions tho, I've rarely found people who reliably discuss things well, regardless of to which group they belong. It is a skill that ought not be assumed to be had by people, even well-intentioned ones.

luminarium · 2024-04-14T22:09:15+00:00

I believe she was an extreme minority in the sea of feminists: she embodies logic, objectiveness and a willingness to debate in good faith, characters which I believe are sorely lacking in most misandrists.

Agreed. Cassie Jaye is excellent

Whole_W · 2024-04-14T21:31:40+00:00

I feel like the ways in which men are treated poorly by society often come primarily from a huge apathy, as opposed to ignorance or hatred, deep down. Mind you, this is a woman speaking here, I don't know what it's like to be a man first-hand, this is just my personal impression. I've also noticed that conservative opponents of male advocacy are way more likely than feminist opponents to outright say they know what they're doing and simply don't care about the needs of male persons, in contrast to claims that males aren't disadvantaged in the world and/or that feminism is being just as helpful for men as women.

WannabeLeagueBowler · 2024-04-15T18:35:36+00:00

When you find parallels between things, if you get one wrong, you end up getting the other even more wrong.

You say you hear nothing but ad-hominems when you talk to feminists. Same. But is that what you hear when you talk to conservatives? I don't buy it. I don't even know where it would be possible. Conservatives get banned for saying the sky is blue.

Being conservative myself, it's very easy to spot when a liberal's idea of a conservative comes only from talking to other liberals. Same as it is for you in reverse I'm sure. Let me try to paint a picture of a conservative to show how off your interpretation is. You say conservatives are searching for boogie men that will bind them together in solidarity in a fight for glory. There's probably some of that in all of us, and maybe conservatives are simple minded, but more so in the sense that they're content to live the simple life. You'd probably also call them boring. Liberals tend to be the ones searching for something, young and chasing a high, or neurotic and filling a void. Maybe living in a cramped city apartment with no nature. Do the pills work?

This liberal interpretation of conservatism, the whole trope about scapegoats, reeks of projection. You're the one looking for a "community" you can identify with, so it's easy for you to imagine conservatives are against immigration out of some similar drive for shared purpose. They're not. When conservatives hear this, they go "Huh?". It resonates with liberals, partly because it's self serving, but mainly because they can see it in their own humanity. Or they've just seen it enough on TV.

Conservatives have good reason for being against immigration, which is probably just too tough for you to admit, and that's why you don't like them. Experts will tell you immigration is good for the economy, just like inflation. But it devalues labor, and burdens social services. Good for whose economy? Feminism is pro-open borders. That should tell you something. You find the same crazy stats. Immigrants put in more than they take out? Please. The country is in debt. No one is putting in more than they take out, least of all poor people with lots of kids. Public school alone costs over $30,000 per child per year and that's if you speak English. Immigrants have a lower crime rate? Despite demographically correlating to every known risk factor for crime such as poverty? These are the same stats that say 99% of rapists will never see a day in jail. Wanna test your luck?

I think you're trying to convince yourself that these two groups are alike, not to understand feminism, but to understand conservatism, at least in your mind, because if you can link them in your mind, it will help ease the cognitive dissonance of not knowing why your supposedly pro-working class leftism could hold anti-working class positions, including both feminism and open borders. And they're both even marketed to you in the same way, in terms of bigotry and equality, right here in your post and again in the comments.

Your main subject of this thread about the limitations of discourse is a great one, but I think you were held back from going into it. I think discourse is absolutely necessary, and everyone knows it. That's why it's kept limited, by those who control the platforms. But that wouldn't be conservatives, would it? There's a pretty big power differential there. That's the elephant in the room.

luminarium · 2024-04-14T22:07:15+00:00

Conservatism, but when the latter sought the immigrant to be his enemy

The fuck? Conservatives rightly see insecure borders and unvetted immigration as a threat, because it allows criminals into the country in addition to the deserving migrants; as well as massive amounts of unskilled labor which competes with people already in the country. They don't "seek" to make immigrants their "enemy".

rather conservatives want an enemy to magnify their culture of domination and victory, prolonged their delusion of an impending utopia in the making, and to conveniently push all the blame to another agent.

What a pile of horseshit.

often brought from them a series of ad-hominems, straw-mans, generalizations, obfuscations and overall a completely flawed logic.

Just like what you did in your mischaracterization of conservatives.

Title	Addressing the limitations by which discourse can be useful with misandrist groups.
Author	Dashing2026
Upvotes	25
Comments	17
Date	April 14, 2024 2:49 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1c3j9mf/addressing_the_limitations_by_which_discourse_can/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/addressing-the-limitations-by-which-discourse-can.1515036 https://theredarchive.com/post/1515036

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