How can we prove the empathy gap?

TheSpaceDuck · 2024-03-25T03:57:38+00:00

Fortunately there is quite a bit of research done on this matter, and while using the term "empathy gap" is still taboo the conclusion that people value women's lives more or care about women's well-being more is still directly approached.

I'll leave you with a few examples you might find interesting:

Both men and women show less empathy towards men

Male aggression viewed more negatively than female aggression

The demonization and criminalization of unarmed Black male victims in America

Sex differences in the first impressions made by girls and boys with autism

Women evaluated more favourably than men

Female victims result in harsher sentences

Gay men viewed more negatively than lesbians

Gender differences in coverage of missing people

Men perceived as aggressors and women as victims, people demanded harsher punishments for men

Male victims of domestic violence more likely to be jailed than helped

Male rape victims viewed more negatively by police, regardless of perpetrator's gender

People react more positively to research that uncovers sex differences that favor women than men

Gender sentence gap 6 times higher than racial sentence gap

Men receive harsher sentences than women for the same crime. Black males suffer the harshest sentences but women of all races receive shorter sentences than white men

SomeSugondeseGuy · 2024-03-25T00:38:06+00:00

The women are wonderful effect is a pretty good answer

I once read a source saying that if a crime has a male victim, the punisment is reduced by like 30%, but I can't find that anymore.

oggyb · 2024-03-25T01:12:30+00:00

Here's a good resource from this sub.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/rycnyd/on_the_gender_empathy_gap_and_its_correlates_a/

bottleblank · 2024-03-25T00:56:57+00:00

Any discussion ever about boys and men behind behind in education, the majority of homicide and suicide victims, any mention of majority [gender] areas of employment, any attempt a man makes to express loneliness and a desire for a partner...?

Macdui90 · 2024-03-25T11:02:15+00:00

There's a study where people observe an a-sexual looking infant and are told it is a boy or a girl. Those who thought it was a girl treated its cries as hurt, scared, vulnerable, etc., whereas when they were told it was a boy said it was "angry, aggressive., etc" For further proof, just ask anyone with kids how differently they treat their kids by gender. Even very open minded and progressive parents will do this from instinct as "boys need to be tough!" so we treat them with distance and harshness and wonder why too many boys grow up to be disconnected and angry. tip of the iceberg

localcokedrinker · 2024-03-25T00:34:04+00:00

I would start with finding scientific studies on the empathy gap, the drivers for it, and learn everything you can about it to start addressing factors that enable it. It's one of those nebulous things that we can only vaguely observe, but we often end up missing the forest for the trees.

Peptocoptr · 2024-03-25T23:25:14+00:00

I bring up the UN post of "11% of female journalists killed in 2021 were women. Stop killing women journalists!" As a starting point and bring up the stuff the other comments have pointed out after.

WannabeLeagueBowler · 2024-03-25T17:41:01+00:00

How many times have you seen a circumcision argument where one side tries to explain what the foreskin is and how it works, and the other side says "Nuh uh. The CDC says it's safe and effective"?

You can't "prove" anything. Only "trusted authorities" can do that, by issuing proclamations. Insofar as making a logical case, please do not ever cite any studies. I'm serious. You don't need them, or want them.

Make it a point to never do that. Always reason, from first principles. Make the most basic observations you can think of, ones no one else can help to avoid. People will throw studies back at you. Let them. The truth will nag away at them. The next round of studies will be ever more convoluted and ridiculous. This is always the pattern.

As an example of a basic observation, it's usually pretty easy to find a stat you know the other person already agrees with. Blacks are over-represented in prison compared to whites. We hear that all the time. It's because of racism, and poverty, which is because of racism, etc... Well, men are even more over-represented than women yet we hear nothing, or excuses. Are men poorer than women? Don't answer that. You get the idea, and this example might not be for you, but since you're trying to prove the empathy gap, there must have been some situation in your mind that prompted it, and all I'm saying is go with it. Whatever that observation is, it's stronger than you think. Don't get fooled into trying to play their game with officially sanctioned studies by approved people and all.

Slaves didn't cite the white man's "scientific consensus" to prove their worth. Are you crazy? I think the problem for the left is they're still trying to prop up this evil institution. We should be tearing down the whole thing.

trowaway123453199 · 2024-03-25T04:34:38+00:00

probing that gap is one thing, but arguing against it? or trying to change it? maybe its just all of this talk about how men are so privileged that I have heard so much, but I also remember an argument refuting this gap with a "men are just not used to not being privileged, now they have get used to it" or the "women don't owe men anything" kind of discourse.

also, what kind of action could we take to make this better? even if it was seen as a problem, some women don't even care about men in their families or partners, and we are arguing for care of strangers? i may be a doomer but it just seems kind of hopeless.

eli_ashe · 2024-03-25T17:53:52+00:00

Insofar as you are seeking proof of the point, studies, etc... that you can use, I'd point to the comment that links an existing resource in this sub.

I'm gonna note a few related things.

1) you may not realistically be able to 'prove' this to folks who are of the 'pro woman' type with facts, statistics, and so forth alone as part of the gender dynamic involved is exactly for the feminine to make pretense of weakness and vulnerability. Demurring themselves as if they were merely passive agents rather than active ones. The problem being any proof of an advantage they may have runs up against this tendency to demure themselves.

2) That particular aspect of the gendered dynamic, the feminine demure, is also part of the answer to your question of how to argue for the empathy gap. It is also one I think you might find more fruitful in an argument than busting out the fact sheets. Women are more likely to ask for help, to present themselves as weak and vulnerable, etc... in sum and for ease of notation, they are more likely to demure themselves towards the aims of getting someone to feel sorry for them and hence to help them.

This is plausibly a more fruitful tactic in actual arguements as folks who are not likely to accept various stats are more likely to accept these kind of broad characterizations. They are also staples of most classic feminist lit on the topic. They don't exactly put it that way most of the time, but it is using the same language and points they typically use, so they are more likely to really understand and accept it.

if they don't, they may ask for stats to back up the claims, at which point you can bust out the stat sheets.

3) The other aspect of that particular gendered dynamic is the 'white knight', the men who are all too keen to go rushing to the defense of the demurred woman.

Just describing that kind of dynamic to folks can have some real effectiveness in terms of making the empathy gap point, perhaps especially with some feminist types. Whom may be the most likely folks to be pushing back against the claim.

Woman demurred, man does white knight move. Its short, to the point, and has some non-trivial amount of truth to it. Hence, we are primed by the gendered roles to tend towards empathy for women, and no empathy towards men.

Finally, related to the point, criminalization, culturalization, how gender is used to criminalize men's behavior, https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1bm2oz4/criminalization_culturalization_how_gender_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

1stthing1st · 2024-03-28T05:09:21+00:00

Have you ever seen a prostate cancer awareness ribbon?

Alpha0rgaxm · 2024-03-25T16:08:04+00:00

The only way I think is to measure women’s and men’s social media responses to certain things. Women receive more empathy and simultaneously have less empathy

Cearball · 2024-03-30T03:27:33+00:00

https://amzn.eu/d/6l42P7N

Don't know how good this is.

TheSpaceDuck · 2024-03-25T03:38:16+00:00

Fortunately there is quite a bit of research done on this matter, and while using the term "empathy gap" is still taboo the conclusion that people value women's lives more or care about women's well-being more is still directly approached.

I'll leave you with a few examples you might find interesting to get you started:

Both men and women show less empathy towards men

Title	How can we prove the empathy gap?
Author	Dashing2026
Upvotes	81
Comments	17
Date	March 24, 2024 11:21 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1bmyq9s/how_can_we_prove_the_empathy_gap/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/how-can-we-prove-the-empathy-gap.1513052 https://theredarchive.com/post/1513052

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