Feminism vs Intersectionality

gsiteuveisbsushsf · 2021-06-11T03:30:16+00:00

Dude! I was just thinking about this.

Fuck I love this sub.

Yes, it’s always been a thing I’ve noticed is that intersectionality doesn’t apply to men.

MoC have their own unique struggles and experiences, but it’s always attrtibutrd to their race with no account for how their gender shapes it as well.

Ime, racism is often a gendered problem and men experience the brunt and harsher end of it.

Black men are the primary victims of the justice department, Muslim men are the ones primarily attacked, Asian men face a greater degree of alienation and less acceptance in western society...

All of these examples are directly related to their masculinity, and stereotypes of masculinity effect moc in different ways too.

And yet, not a peep about it from feminists.

Better_Repeat · 2021-06-10T18:17:56+00:00

My impression of intersectionality has been that it's entire purpose is an attempt by some western feminists to remain relevant in the face of dramatically improving conditions for women in the west; ever since I first learned about it. Why? Because it is sometimes explicitly referred to as 'intersectional feminism' and I have witnessed people inappropriately attach the feminist brand to things that don't relate to it, such as mental illness and homophobia.

In reality, feminism, on its own, is probably the cause with the lowest priority within the sphere of accepted causes in intersectionality. I say this with a little bias, because honestly I think things like the wage gap and representation amongst the capitalist and rentier classes are exceedingly trivial issues given that there exist people living in absolute poverty and under legitimate fear of violence - they should always be the number 1 priority. Making more women into millionaires and billionaires will not help anyone with material issues, and to assert as such is to invoke the theory of 'trickle down economics'. Violence against women by men is arguably more common than violence against men by women, but it is less common than most forms of violence towards men in general.

Let's take a look at a topical example; the overall police homicide rate in the US is already unacceptable, but there's certainly a specific issue when black people are overrepresented in the homicides by a factor of around 3. Meanwhile, white women are the least likely of any group to experience any kind of violence at the hands of police, especially lethal violence. Men in general are around 20x more likely to be killed by police than women. In comparison, the general police homicide rate in the UK is far less than that in the US (by a factor of around 57), and similarly far fewer women are victims. However, the murder of Sarah Everard, as tragic and unacceptable as it was, was given almost as much attention (in the UK) as the BLM protests, certainly a disproportionate amount given how rare a case like hers is.

So, I would indeed argue that intersectionality is in fact largely an effort, by feminists, to co-opt and misappropriate the suffering of other minority groups, and to maintain the legitimacy of western feminism transitively via association to groups that experience tangible, material consequences of discrimination. Except class, of course, because almost all of the people involved in intersectionality are middle class with aspirations of becoming full-fledged bourgeoise, and all of them misappropriate the material suffering of lower class members of their own minority groups.

BloomingBrains · 2021-06-11T04:17:11+00:00

Intersectionality was a way for subgroups of feminists to power grab for more oppression points (black feminist, trans feminists, etc). The irony is that it only serves to divide them up even more. But ultimately, intersectionality will be the death knell of the idpol left, so I fully support it. Example: when BLM attacked a gay pride parade because they were angry that people were celebrating gay issues instead of black ones.

Meanwhile us classical liberals are pro-gay and pro-black...just saying.

Blauwpetje · 2021-06-10T17:25:13+00:00

As far as I know within intersectional feminism black men are considered more oppressed than white women. Which doesn't matter much to me as the whole intersectionality theory is crap anyway.

LacklustreFriend · 2021-06-10T20:40:58+00:00

In a sense, yes. This is already happening to some extent. We're beginning to see traditional radical feminists (sometimes labelled TERFs) fight against Intersectional Feminists (aligned with 'wokeism'), particularly in the UK.

It's really a case of purists fighting against the own outgrowth of their movement. Like Marxist-Leninists against Stalinists.

They ultimately come from the same lineage. To oversimplify, Marxism led to Critical Theory which led to Radical Feminism which led to Black Feminism which led to Intersectional Feminism which led to 'Wokeism'. So the 'traditional' radical feminists are in someway just upset that another group has stolen their thunder. The narcissism of small differences as it were.

It's why I find it hard to be sympathetic to stories of 'gender-critical feminists' attempting to get 'platformed' again, when they hold the same underlying principles and beliefs that let to this situation in the first place, only it's been turned against them.

Quix_Nix · 2021-06-11T00:14:38+00:00

Anyway it'll be interesting to see them fight.

insert smug wojak face

DanteLivra · 2021-06-10T17:46:48+00:00

Feminism is going trought an identity crisis at the moment, if they don't consolidate about what feminism stands for soon, it may very well be the end of mainstream feminism.

Quix_Nix · 2021-06-11T00:11:13+00:00

Kyle Kulinski said something the other week about intersectionality. It was a definition I had never heard. It almost seems like a different thing entirely.

He said something like Intersectionality is when you can solve multiple issues with one policy because they are all connected. Rather than the more woke/politically toxic definition which is tied to all the Critical Theory, neo racist, and neo-Marxist stuff that is genuinely toxic. (actually, critical theory has a similar issue, original critical theories were marxist, scientific, libertarian and just anything anti-establishment, whereas you have critical theory now which totally rejects libertarianism, marxism, and science and is pro-establishment and in league with the neoliberals)

It is a much more useful and less dogmatic form of intersectionality I think. Though honestly, I don't think that is really what intersectionality is today, and by the framers, it is certainly a more positive and helpful definition and maybe a good rhetorical tactic. (what he said about having one policy that can solve other issues is certainly true as well)

redditthrowaway1478 · 2021-06-10T22:56:23+00:00

2 questions:

Who said gender is the most important axis?
How does one explain how they "put themselves there?"

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to say the modern western white woman is the most priviliged demographic to have ever lived and the only reason is that they are at the top of the privilege heirarchy is because they put themselves there. It's well overdue a correction.

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