Is "breaking down gender expectations" even a coherent thing to hope for?

a-man-from-earth · 2021-03-18T00:55:14+00:00

Locked and removed as per rule 7 because of OP's attitude in the comments.

nocturnefox · 2021-03-17T15:30:16+00:00

Boys and men often suffer emotional abuse or physical abuse/violence or worse for going against "gender expectations". For one being called cowards for being scared when girls or women wouldn't. An example of that is how historically boys and men were expected to sign up for the draft and seen as cowardly if they didn't want to or dodged it.

I don't think the concept of gender expectations comes from feminism though. It's definitely observable in society. Look around at how men and boys are treated when we have hobbies, interests, clothing, or any other innocent thing society decided isn't acceptable for us even though it harms no one. To me that's worth hoping for whether it's "coherent" or not.
I think feminists often use those issues to say, "see we're trying to help men and boys too" while twisting our issues into women's issues. They'll try to say it's men who are making it hard on the boys and men who are different but I've seen a lot that contradicts that.

OGBoglord · 2021-03-17T18:26:57+00:00

Just because the Feminists movement is deeply flawed, perhaps even inherently misandrist, doesn't mean that every single idea derived from it should be rejected outright. Freeing men from the social demands that inhibit them is a net positive for us all. Besides, this isn't exactly a patented Feminist idea; there are many men and women throughout history who rejected their gender roles long before Feminism was even conceived. What's changed is that doing so is more widely accepted, and even encouraged.

This isn't so much about "breaking down" thoughts as changing popular opinion, which, as male advocates, is something we should be determined to do.

PrincessofPatriarchy · 2021-03-17T17:08:31+00:00

I don't see how it's not. Gender expectations (gender roles??) Have already changed exponentially. Women aren't limited to just domestic duties. Men aren't beholden to the same strict standards of chivalry as before. Gay men can exist openly in society. Men can have long hair. Women can wear undercuts. Men are being able to enter more careers that work with children. Women can join male dominated careers.

More men are wearing nail polish or "guyliner", women can openly smoke and drink without it being a scandal. Sexual freedom is greater for both genders, premarital sex is less stigmatized. Women can be openly child-free, gay couples and single men can adopt. Men have been steadily increasing the sharing of household duties and time spent with their children since the 1950s (according to Pew research).

There is a wider range of accepted personal expression for both genders. A lot of these things have changed just since the 90s.

So clearly we can challenge and change gender norms to increase both freedom and personal expression for both genders. Why couldn't we? Did you think that everything has remained the exact same since the 1940s?

Changing gender norms isn't about berating people who uphold traditional lifestyles like a woman who wants wants be a housewife or a man who wants to be a truck driver. It's about not berating people who choose not to uphold a traditional lifestyle, like women who want to be police officers or men who want to be stay at home dads.

burninginthedistance · 2021-03-17T16:49:17+00:00

It certainly is, but it requires looking at gender through a non-biased perspective, and having an open dialogue and a willingness to solve the issue. Unlike the narrow minded feminist beliefs, sexism is a two way street, and we would need to tackle pervasive ideas that limit gender freedoms for all of us. If we actually learned how to be sex-positive in a true sense, and not the horseshit feminist version that only applies to a woman's personal experience, then we would already be well on our way to breaking down the barrier between gender.

adam-l · 2021-03-17T14:37:55+00:00

I didn't fully get your post, but the fact is that quite a few "gender expectations" are built into our biology, and "breaking them down" necessarily means going against our instincts. For example, we shouldn't have the gender expectation to protect females during fights. We should be totally OK with them getting their faces bruised if they are agressive, the same way we do for men.

BloomingBrains · 2021-03-17T22:27:55+00:00

The thoughts Alex has in her brain are not our business, we have absolutely no right to attempt to break them down or dismantle them unless Alex asks us to do that. If she doesn't, we need to leave Alex and her gender expectations alone. It's her right.

John has a gender expectation in his brain that you don't like. He has certain expectations of women that grow from their gender (not being allowed to vote, forced subservience to their husbands, etc.)

The thoughts John has in his brain are not our business, we have absolutely no right to attempt to break them down or dismantle them unless John asks us to do that. If he doesn't, we need to leave John and his gender expectations alone. It's his right.

Is "breaking down gender expectations" even a coherent thing to hope for?

I believe history has spoken on that issue.

Title	Is "breaking down gender expectations" even a coherent thing to hope for?
Author	czerdec
Upvotes	10
Comments	53
Date	March 17, 2021 10:14 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/m6x6u9/is_breaking_down_gender_expectations_even_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/is-breaking-down-gender-expectations-even-a.1061698 https://theredarchive.com/post/1061698

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