Left wing right wing

throwra_coolname209 · 2020-12-16T18:57:15+00:00

I'm a bit different politically than this subreddit seems to attract, but I'll share my thoughts.

Basically, I'm looking for a place that's a step between r/MensLib and r/MensRights. I definitely think feminism, as a whole, isn't unwarranted and women do face issues that men do not. I also am agreeable to feminist concepts and beliefs like women being seen as inferior in the workplace or being taken less seriously throughout their lives.

However, I don't think feminism is, as an entity, free of blame. I think there are several missteps it has made and it's increasing attempts to stay relevant have turned it into a behemoth that recycles buzzwords at the expense of men who try to be their allies. Basically, feminism has flaws that should be examined. The same as some extreme MRAs.

Along with that, I just lean left in general. Universal healthcare, living wages, acceptance of transgender folk, LGBT rights, an abolition of strict gender roles WITHOUT shaming those who find comfort and identity in traditional roles - those are all things I can very much get behind.

UnHope20 · 2020-12-16T21:00:00+00:00

Can't speak for everyone else here. But in my case, it has to do with the fact that traditional MRA circles seem to be a mixed bag politically.

While I think that ideological diversity is important for any movement I also really care about other issues that left wing person would: immigration reform, strong social safety net, LGBTQA+ rights, women's rights and racial justice.

Some background: I was a marxist communist for a good part of my life. But through personal experience and learning more my views have shifted on a lot of things.

I still lurk on the traditional MRA and feminist subs because I think that they have something to offer the conversation. But both groups are lacking in their analysis of the world I think.

That being said, I'm a radical masculist so I don't agree with everything that people say on here either.

It's just better for my brain to not be arguing with hyper-conservatives on the solutions to the problems facing men. So I'm not on the traditional MRA subs as much Again, I respect those guys I just don't agree with them on most things.

EDIT: I should add that the class struggle is the most important to me. I feel like the left wing folks get that more.... Or at least we used to 😑

a-man-from-earth · 2020-12-16T21:36:22+00:00

I agree that we need to stick together, and many of us are also active on /r/MensRights. But because of the laissez-faire moderation policies there and the strength of right-wing voices there, it can be really frustrating to make or defend left-wing arguments.

Then it's nice to have a place where it's a given that people understand that no, abortion is not murder, and no, Trump is not good for the common man, and no, not all the left is feminist or postmodernist or even Marxist, and no, traditional gender roles are not necessarily the solution, and a slew of other arguments.

mewacketergi2 · 2020-12-16T21:39:28+00:00

Hi there, OP, and welcome to this community.

Basically, at LWMA we are more likely to discuss men's issues from a structural or society-wide perspective, while conservatives put more stress on individual responsibility, which is one of the key distinctions between the righty vs lefty lens, and the glaring gap in the modern intellectual landscape. However, unlike the 'slib, we don't censor, are not interested in ideological purity, and don't fight to maintain the feminist internationalist academia monopoly on the interpretation of what "structural" means.

This being said, I strongly believe that men's issues are bi-partisan, and we should try to set third-party disagreements aside when talking about this with any good-faith actor.

helloiseeyou2020 · 2020-12-16T21:42:10+00:00

I feel the need to distinguish myself becsuse literally every single MRA I have ever seen in the wild is the kind of person to use words like cuck, libtard, dindu, feminazi etc unironically

I feel the need to distinguish myself because there is a deeply shared venn diagram between self-identified MRAs and right wing or "centrist" values which are fundamentally incompatible with my own.

Oncefa2 · 2020-12-16T23:49:31+00:00

I'm less interested in distinguishing myself from other MRAs as I am distinguishing myself to other leftists.

The men's rights movement is a logical leftist position. Many of us are MRAs because we're sympathetic to left wing ideas, gender equality, and "social justice".

In my opinion, the only logical social justice position has to include men's advocacy. Meaning actual men's advocacy and not the half assed excuse you see from feminism that leftists so often adopt.

In some ways we're your greatest ally, and possibly the key to a true grassroots movement for men. The left has a monopoly on this kind of thing, and if we can get the left on board, in a bi-partisan fashion, I think we could make a lot of positive changes for men everywhere.

2020-12-17T01:42:53+00:00

What i dislike about MRA subreddits is there's too much Trump worship / left wing bashing as well as all those other talking points I just find idiotic such as "fake news", thrown into the mix.

Gender dynamics transcends political parties. This sub is able to operate on that level and not get distracted by political leaders or elections, for the most part.

OkLetterhead10 · 2020-12-16T21:13:24+00:00

From the Mission Statement :

How do we differ from right-wing anti-feminists?

Here are examples of ideas held by some right-wing anti-feminists which we might want to critique or debate on this subreddit:

Opposition to egalitarianism, which undermines any ideological basis to criticize feminism's fake egalitarianism and demand equality for men too
The assumption that men truly dominated in the traditional “patriarchy”
The assumption that today’s social problems are caused by too much equality
The assumption that it is possible to return to past social structures, even if it was desirable
The assumption that feminism is too intersectional
Blaming the problems with feminism on left-wing ideologies like Marxism
The assumption that postmodernism is inherently feminist, when postmodernism’s nuanced understanding of power could instead be used to criticize feminism
The belief that we live in a meritocracy
Placing the burden entirely on individual self-improvement to solve any societal inequality, which exacerbates male hyperagency
Complaints that men aren't chivalrous anymore
Pushing traditional male protector/provider roles and shaming men who don’t measure up
A tendency to insult men as "betas", "cucks", "soyboys", etc (see Moderation policy)
Apologism for male-on-male bullying
Support for infant male circumcision, which is an unnecessary mutilation of defenceless babies
Opposition to pornography, which is a source of pleasure for mainly men
Rhetoric about sexual “degeneracy”, when demonization of sexuality is a big part of how men are demonized
Slut-shaming of women, which makes sex riskier and more difficult for men too
Opposition to abortion, birth control, and/or state funding thereof, which help reduce the accidental pregnancy risk for men too
Opposition to welfare systems, which could instead be improved through greater awareness of male vulnerabilities
Opposition to welfare for single mothers, which leads to harsher enforcement of child support obligations on non-custodial fathers
Opposition to basic income proposals, which might lessen the male provider role
Tendency to support investor rights over workers’ rights, worsening working conditions in the most dangerous jobs which are done by primarily men
Support for tougher policing, border security, and counterterrorism which results in the imprisonment of mainly men
Demonization of third-world men, particularly Muslim men, as oppressors of women
Support for wars which kill primarily men
Associations with "white pride" and "straight pride"
Possible neo-fascist “clubs” recruiting young men as street-fighters, which is dangerous to those men as well as to their political opponents
The opinion that suffrage should again be restricted to only property-owning men
Needless alienation of trans people, who could have been natural allies of men’s advocates due to having experienced both sides of the gender coin as well as the bigotry of Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists

Langland88 · 2020-12-17T01:03:42+00:00

Well I have called myself an egalitarian in recent years. I've kind of become tone deaf to a lot of feminist talking points especially to things like "The Patriarchy" and "Toxic Masculinity". I am moderate liberal or center-left. I believe in trying to get Universal Healthcare here in the US, fighting climate change especially through trying to get more electric vehicles on the road, using cleaner methods of generating electricity especially through nuclear energy which is very clean surprisingly which would help a lot especially if we use more EVs on the roads, and implementing cleaner agricultural practices too like doing away with CAFOs possibly and going towards grass-fed meat. Outside of that, I believe in trying to make college education in the US cheaper, NOT FREE, but something that doesn't cost $50,000 in debt to get a degree. I favor that the LGBT+ community have their rights respected although I'm not going to be ally either as I only care to coexist nothing more and nothing less. So I do favor many core beliefs of the left wing.

However, I have lost interest in both the Feminist Movements and Social Justice movements only because they become radical in their methods. A lot of Feminists in the US and Western World are radicals who blame their issues on men and seem to have an animosity towards men whether they admit it or not. It seems like the "real" feminists are becoming a rare breed these days and they're being pushed by this modern movement and that's what I find problematic. This modern movement has members actively writing scathing op-ed pieces justifying their hatred for men. Their organizations are actively advocating against policies that could favor men (as well as women). They turn around and blame a lot of problems on "The Patriarchy" and "Toxic Masculinity" and very seldom do they even paint masculinity in a positive way. It just seems like this modern movement really has an axe to grind with men despite their constant lip service claiming that isn't the case.

I have spent the last 6 years or so seeing social media platforms get bombarded with both feminist and social justice propaganda that I have just become more so apathetic to the messages (not that I disagree, I just stopped caring when it's same handful of people complaining when they aren't actually trying to fix the problem), and I'm seeing some issues like the growing male suicide rates or even the severe shortage of DV shelters available to men along with the huge male homelessness rates. These issues fall on deaf ears and it's depressing especially when these issues get muted on social media and dismissed as hate speech. I understand that women and minorities still have problems, but these problems are often used as a means to invalidate some legitimate issues facing men. Enough of my rant. I tried my best to articulate my thoughts, it's just sort of complicated to explain my whole beliefs as people will find ways to invalidate them.

Phantombiceps · 2020-12-17T11:30:23+00:00

I not representative here but in my circle of friends i am. Anti feminist, anti sjw /woke , but libertarian socialist ( traditional libertarian, not right wing free market American one).

2020-12-17T14:57:13+00:00

For me at least it's a separation between my core policy positions and the lefty social movement.

I support and vote on : Universal Healthcare, Green New Deal, Universal Education, Massive Infrastructure spending, Universal Basic Income and decriminalizing all drugs.

I'm just a lefty who doesn't like "feminism". Why the fuck would I want to associate with a movement that hates me for being born with a penis? I want to uplift and help my fellow men, not weirdly self-blame our issues on a borderline conspiracy of patriarchal theory.

I've had feminists tell my that when I was molested, it was on "easy mode" because I'm a white male and so my opinion didn't matter as much. Ya'll can fuck off with that shit. I'll stick to voting on policies that actually help people(women in included).

Blauwpetje · 2020-12-17T19:13:32+00:00

I actually don't differ that much from the average MRA when it comes to gender issues, and I watch and appreciate videos from MRAs and antifeminists who may be right-wing, as long as those videos are confined to gender issues. Neither do I think it simple to post articles and opinions that automatically combine men's issues and leftism, though it is always good to try. But I think it is important that leftists can talk with other leftists about these things in a non-feminist way and environment, even if the combination of leftism and male advocacy is largely theoretical. Also, when current feminism loses popularity (it doesn't look like it, but you never know) it is important that not the whole left goes down with it and a small group, even a tiny group, is ready to reanimate something of a sane left.

Title	Left wing right wing
Author	DusselDw4rf
Upvotes	20
Comments	38
Date	December 16, 2020 5:26 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/kedi6q/left_wing_right_wing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/left-wing-right-wing.1062316 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062316

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How do we differ from right-wing anti-feminists?