romantic standards about men

Petsweaters · 2021-12-01T15:12:49+00:00

Don't let the standards of privileged people, the only people we seem to have much data on, make you think that nobody else was ever truly in love

Vandechoz · 2021-12-01T14:43:30+00:00

there's a 100yearsago sub I follow

from what the comics look like, it seems the main thing was hoping a guy would dress nice and treat a gal "like a lady" so basically the standard chivalry things like pulling a chair out, opening a car door, and also following etiquette rules like not wearing a hat indoors

and also not being poor

GorchestopherH · 2021-12-01T18:38:06+00:00

Pride and Prejudice was written nearly 200 years ago.

Of course it is essentially about nobility, but one reason for it's popularity is it's use of a desirable male character among female readers for a few generations.

Mr. Darcy is a dark, brooding, character. The classic distant unavailable man.
Bonus, he is richer than the "desirable male" introduced moments prior.

The female protagonist is drawn to him, but suffers some angst at his coldness.
Of course, this is all fixed when he tells our heroine that the reason he had been rejecting her is because she wasn't *quite* rich enough for him, and he felt his current huge income would be insufficient to satisfy his ambition.

This is a big revelation to our heroine, and his concerns make perfect sense to her. Of course it would show low ambition to settle for her, perfectly understandable. With that all out in the air, they get married and live happily ever after.

Money, power, emotionally unavailable, and unobtainable, but fixable with a little effort on the heroine's part.

Douglas0327 · 2021-12-01T11:07:06+00:00

Same as now : wallet

HogurDuDesert · 2021-12-01T11:26:46+00:00

Same as the others, even in Europe and America, the concept of a romantical relationship in everyday life (and not just in the books) is relatively new. I think it probably transitioned somewhere around the 1st and 2nd word war. Therefore a 100 years ago, there not such concept as what make a good man, romantically to women. As said before, it was status, wherever it is bloodwise or money wise, or at least prospect of these, which were taken into account by the families of both parties to choose who would be the appropriate partner.

Appart for the above mentioned criterias I wouldn't be surprised if other factors relating to traditional masculinity where used as well on a secondary level for the parents to choose the potential partner.

dath_bane · 2021-12-01T10:11:58+00:00

Maybe some aristocratic women in European or american cities could have romantic demands. In most places you needed to have good relations with her father. If he thought you were ambitous man and not a big drinker you had a good chance to marry his daughter.

BloomingBrains · 2021-12-01T20:08:08+00:00

This is a topic I've often wondered about as well. I made a post about 5 months ago where I sort of brushed against this topic. As recently as a few generations ago, it seemed the standard of a masculine/attractive man was very different from now. No one wondered if a guy like Frank Sinatra, who sang either love songs or songs about being lonely, was a "beta incel". No, he was a heartthrob who could have had any woman he wanted. It certainly can't be a coincidence that the modern standard of masculinity has degenerated to a thug like level, and musicians that are popular nowadays are rappers with lyrics that refer to women as "bitches" among other things.

If we look at this from an evolutionary perspective, it makes sense that most women would have predisposition to loving bad boys (though obviously less than universal, as now). As the weaker sex, it would have been beneficial in primitive tribes to gain the partnership of the strongest, most aggressive, most savage man you could find, so long as he stopped just barely short of being savage enough to kill his mate or her children. Those men were also more likely to survive, and therefore passed on their genes more often, so it's probably a mix of sexual and natural selection.

Over time, civilization changed this as brutality gave way to other methods of prosperity. A smart man could make good investments, develop a specialized and lucrative skills, etc., doing much better than a witless brute. There would have been dominance hierarchies still, but if everyone was a vassal under the king, then you were all largely equal anyway, especially in rural areas. So that's when concepts like chivalry, monogamy, etc. probably sprang up--women were free to choose the kinder, more loving men since choosing them and survival weren't mutually exclusive.

Then you have industrialization and technology. Now women in cities with dating apps have access to hundreds or even thousands of men to choose from. They are extremely prosperous by the standards of prior centuries, and men and women are now more equal, so their basis of comparison for what constitutes "higher value than my own" has sharply risen. These things circumvent the old customs, which were based on the then-practical idea that both your options and standard of living were more limited to whatever local population existed. They cater more to those primitive notions of hypergamy. It's also possible that since nice/gentle men have become more commonplace in modern times, they have lost their exoticism and allure, where the reverse would have been true going backward in history. Supply and demand.

That's the common theory, anyway. But if its wrong, I wonder how its possible that one can find historical examples like that of the poet Byron. A friend of his once wrote Mary Shelley, expressing her fears that he would lose himself in Vienna, where he was constantly having sex with local women, and never return. Compare to now where poetry would be called "cringy".

gabbadabbahey · 2021-12-08T16:04:20+00:00

You know, this has become a modern trope (Women like assholes! Nice guys finish last!) and sometimes popular culture picks up a supposed trend and we all starting seeing things through that lens and that's all we can see.

I would argue that it's actually universal human nature to want what we can't have. To find someone more appealing when they're not totally available. In talking with male and female friends, everyone seems to have had this experience. It sucks, but I find that it does tend to get a bit better as we get older and become more sure of ourselves.

Title	romantic standards about men
Author	Mislawh
Upvotes	38
Comments	22
Date	December 1, 2021 5:43 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/r67lwg/romantic_standards_about_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/romantic-standards-about-men.1089374 https://theredarchive.com/post/1089374

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