A question from an outsider.

jolly_mcfats · 2012-12-12T03:55:11+00:00

Call yourself an egalitarian. But don't confuse criticism of feminism with attacks on women, or women's rights.

The end of second wave feminism and the entire third wave marked a transition from a perspective of partnering with men for equality to one of viewing men as a privileged class of oppressors to be brought down. The MRM as a whole rejects this view, and holds it accountable for the misandry it engenders. This Marxist Feminist Dialectic that views gender through class dynamics has so permeated feminism that to stand against it is to stand against feminism as a whole.

MRAs are interested in truth, and are willing to dialog. MRAs do not hate women, and are not interested in oppressing them. But MRAs will, by and large, provide strong and vehement dissent to many things considered sacred by feminists. It is the view of the MRM that the feminism flag is being used to create 2 sets of laws- one for women, and another for men. The MRM holds poor scholarship by the likes of Carol Gilligan, and the efforts of organizations like NOW and the AAUW responsible for the current education crisis that young boys face, and a host of other inequal legislation.

This is why you see feminism attacked by the MRM.

SarcastiCock · 2012-12-12T03:54:44+00:00

Read the sidebar

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/g2eme/feminists_tell_you_that_the_solution_to_mens/

http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/whats-the-difference/

OuiCrudites · 2012-12-12T04:59:48+00:00

Reddit does not = the world. The story of feminism is a story of the vilification of men.

ignatiusloyola · 2012-12-12T05:17:34+00:00

Here is a test that you can try out for yourself.

Go to /r/feminism and post something similar, but change mensrights<->feminism. See if you get your post remove. (Actually, they are getting a lot better there.) And now you will see that your post won't get removed here.

Anyways, as for "attacking", take a quick look at the Warren Farrell protest at the UofT to see feminists "attacking". Here, we simply collectively reject feminism, and you think that we are the more agressive ones?

corbyworld · 2012-12-12T04:21:49+00:00

Find the post below in the forum here for an example of the lies feminists perpetuate and follow the links in the comments to A Voice For Men. You will find one example of feminist lies and see why it forces MRAs to attack feminism as being bigotry. Feminism/feminists does/do NOT equal women/females.

POST: "Forwarded by a feminist, thoughts on this women V men prison statistic?"

themountaingoat · 2012-12-12T05:38:12+00:00

Here is a comment from a similar thread where I answer your question.

DerpaNerb · 2012-12-12T07:18:49+00:00

yet I often see people commenting on the mensright subreddit that feminist are the ones to attack

Yeah... physically, like, in the real world.

I have found a lot more bashing of feminism on the men's rights page than in r/feminism,

Name me one thing that MRA's are pushing for that actually removes rights away from women or discriminates against them.

Want me to name a few things that feminists push that discriminate against men?

There is a reason you are seeing unequal amounts of bashing... it's because one side has many legitimate gripes , and the other has nothing more than a bunch of shit rhetoric.

yet I find neither of these groups seems to be dedicated to the equality of both.

Again, show me one single thing that is a mainstream goal of the MRM that isn't equality and/or disadvantages women in order to benefit men.

C0CKPUNCHER · 2012-12-12T08:47:18+00:00

This thread again.

rightsbot · 2012-12-12T03:50:19+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

CyberToyger · 2012-12-12T04:23:10+00:00

Jolly_mcfats pretty much hit the nail on the head there. And this is just my opinion but if you're ok with long titles then an Equal Opportunity Egalitarian is a good way to describe most of us and possibly yourself. :P

Equal Opportunity as in no laws giving any one group privileges or 'dibs' on anything, as opposed to Equal Outcome which covers things like Affirmative Action laws and redistribution of wealth and lowering of standards, and is basically one of the key components of 2nd wave/radical/extremist Feminism.

memymineown · 2012-12-12T04:27:14+00:00

There are different subreddits devoted to feminism. Some are pretty good, some are not so much.

DougDante · 2012-12-12T12:48:29+00:00

What should I call myself?

carpetpowder

The_Patriarchy · 2012-12-12T05:51:12+00:00

/r/feminism is MRA-tolerant from what I understand. That's why you don't see MRAs being bashed there. If you want a feminist subreddit that isn't MRA-friendly, try anything in the /r/shitredditsays "fempire" (e.g. /r/SRSfeminism). Or You could try /r/feminisms, though they tend to avoid any conflict with us. Also, when looking at any subreddit, you need to take into account the size of the readership. Subs with a lot of readers will tend to pander to the lowest elements more than sparsely populated subs. But sparsely populated subs tend to have less content overall.

Furthermore, you should be more concerned with bashing genders rather than bashing ideologies or movements. Bashing beliefs/etc. is an outgrowth of disagreement. Bashing an inherent quality, like one's sex, is an outgrowth of bigotry. Certain people would like you to believe that bashing their beliefs is sexism...it's not.

I believe in the equal rights for both genders, yet I find neither of these groups seems to be dedicated to the equality of both. What should I call myself?

If you believe in equal rights, then you're an egalitarian.

If you believe women are oppressed and men are privileged, then you're a feminist.

If you advocate for the rights of men, then you're an MRA.

calendaronmymonitor · 2012-12-12T07:56:11+00:00

I've only been reading askmen, askwomen, mensrights, xxchromosome for about a week and a half. With all the feminism and MRM talk, I feel like the secular humanism needs to be brought up more.

Being new to these subs, it reminds me when I decided to start answering the question: "are you a cat person or a dog person" with the answer: "I am an animal person"; because shit man, all animals are awesome. And I'd keep 'em all as pets if I could.

loose-dendrite · 2013-01-04T12:24:15+00:00

Er, by attack we mean actually going out and attacking. Misinformation campaigns, denials of free speech, physical assault, harassment (including attempts to get a mod here fired), and credible murder threats. There's also an attempted murder in there.

MRAs disparage feminism. To some degree there is misinformation but seriously, it's not at the same level. MRAs don't even censor feminists who come into MRA spaces but feminists not only heavily censor but actively seek out MRA posters to tear down. Despite feminists who mention the MRM calling it violent, there's no physical assault, harassment, or credible murder threats. If there's any murder (or rape) threats from MRAs at all. The closest thing is the agent orange doxxing, which hasn't produced any negative effects for the bigots exposed as far as I can tell. And you can bet SRS would make any such effects widely known if they knew of any.

As for your question. The reason MRAs and feminists can't work together is that feminists believe in Patriarchy theory, which attributes society's ills to male dominance in one way or another. For homework you get to rigorous prove its existence. Or even find a feminist who can prove its existence. Or even define it concretely enough to be proven or disproven. In short, nearly all feminists are conspiracy theorists.

edit: Just realized this is an old post. Sorry.

dalsgaard · 2012-12-12T08:56:19+00:00

Only one thing irritates me about your thread. This:

I know this will get downvoted and likely removed

We don't remove opposing opinions or critical questions, because we have nothing to hide.

Title	A question from an outsider.
Author	carpetpowder
Upvotes	5
Comments	23
Date	December 12, 2012 3:49 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/14pfvg/a_question_from_an_outsider/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-question-from-an-outsider.1006852 https://theredarchive.com/post/1006852

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