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Another campaign to solve boys problems, by teaching them to value girls and women more.

Sasha_

March 24, 2014

85 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Post Information

Title	Another campaign to solve boys problems, by teaching them to value girls and women more.
Author	Sasha_
Upvotes	85
Comments	40
Date	March 24, 2014 3:04 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/218g06/another-campaign-to-solve-boys-problems-by-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/another-campaign-to-solve-boys-problems-by.1615674 https://theredarchive.com/post/1615674

Comments

[–]edtastic48 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]unexpecteditem15 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MuzakNinja13 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]11 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlphaWookie6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tessie9995 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They don't even mention talking about male sexuality. The there are only two brief mentions of girls. Here:

promiscuity are the markers of ‘success’, and that women and homosexual men represent the opposite of these characteristics and therefore can be treated as lesser people

Which does talk about women but also GAY MEN. Gay men DO get treated as lesser beings at times too so I feel this program is a constructive thing. This is also specifically referring to boys feeling under pressure to have sex they may not actually want/are ready for.

The other is:

In the short term the workshop will improve the experience of boys and girls at school and challenge negative gender stereotypes which effect boys’ behavior, mental health and academic performance.

In this same sentence it also says it's going to try challenge negative stereotypes that lead to boys achieving "lower grades in schools" and "Never seek[ing] help for mental health problems" as it states "Suicide is the single most common cause of death among men under 35." These quotes are pulled from the page OP provided

Suicide and education are men's rights issues. OP has a misleading title.

[–]baskandpurr3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tessie9991 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't mind if they are asking boys to value girls (one gender can seem quite alien to the other so I think it might be needed) as long as they are also focusing on other men's issues such as mental health and education - which they appear to be. I don't think it is wrong to ask boys to value girls or girls to value boys. They also seem to more mention girls and boys in the context of fighting gender stereotypes which I also think is a good thing. Men should not feel devalued for being house-husbands or considered a failure of a man if he wants to pursue a career outside of sciences, sports or business.

I think OP is being quite unfair towards the program and focusing on a small part to create a misleading title. If he thinks he can create a better program he should set one up himself or become involved to improve it because I am not really seeing how this is ISN'T beneficial for men's rights. It's certainly a step forward at the very least. This should be something that's celebrated or at least acknowledged as an effort as opposed to being impossible to please because it isn't EXACTLY the way YOU would want it.

Eg, there was a sibling group for siblings of disabled children that went to my little brother's special school. I went and didn't think it really helped much so I asked to get more involved in it. I was pretty young at the time but I managed to get everyone talking to each other and actually interacting. Instead of just talking about the difficulties of having siblings with special needs (and getting a bit down over it) we started talking more about the siblings themselves and ways to handle random tantrums, ect.

It's not quite men's rights but I think it is a similar premise. I wasn't just angry that the "support" group was more making people miserable. I was happy that it was an attempt to help out but wasn't well executed. So I got in on it and did what I thought would improve it.

[–]edtastic4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]snyper71 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sasha_1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Sasha_5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]baskandpurr4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]edtastic3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StoicSophist-7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]baskandpurr6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StoicSophist-5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]baskandpurr9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StoicSophist-5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]VortexCortex5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You could also, I dunno, maybe talk to boys about the ways in which porn can influence them in problematic ways, so that they can be forewarned.

No, you nitwit, first you need to prove that any harm at all is done via porn. You also need to prove that it isn't women who are equally responsible for the way this world works -- The concepts they espouse are degrading to women! Without unequivocal evidence (of which they have NONE) we shouldn't be teaching our kids this garbage. It basically says to girls that the men of the world are out to subjugate them and their mothers and grandmothers were powerless and ineffectual. It's complete rubbish.

We shouldn't be teaching other unscientific hogwash like creationism in school. Just because some ideological crackpots have strong views doesn't mean the earth is 4000 years old or that masculinity is "problematic".

Since it's been shown that playing violent video games for hours every day doesn't cause violence, and violence against women and men has been declining even though access to free porn and depictions of violence has increased dramatically over the past two decades, you've got a HUGE burden of proof to overcome when you say that depictions of sex cause harm. Feminist dogma runs counter to reality at every chance it gets.

[–]StoicSophist-3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]edtastic3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You could also, I dunno, maybe talk to boys about the ways in which porn can influence them in problematic ways, so that they can be forewarned.

Warned about what? That they might want to engage in sex acts seen in porn? Of course that's what people do when they have sex, sex acts. Porn itself isn't too far removed from the basic mechanics of sex. I fail to see the huge negative influence that must be averted. We've had people come of age in the age easy access porn and they are fine. If anything women's exposed bodies have become less enticing and I think a lot of anti porn sentiment stems form women's insecurities just like it did in the past. I still remember when women would refuse to date men who watched porn.

BTW: Maybe isn't good enough. Just because it might be problematic doesn't mean it's time to start lecturing boys. Girls wearing skimpy outfits might be problematic, but I don't see feminists lecturing girls on it. They protect women's freedom while trying their hardest to shackle men the best they can.

[–]Sasha_3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Read the quote again. Is it true that...

‘Men twice your age and three times your age even; they run this world. It’s their opinions, their thoughts and beliefs and most importantly it’s their desires, their fantasies that we see and they’re the things that we consume that they have created for us.

Really? Because women are the main consumers in society, they control most consumer spending decisions, they dominate fields like publishing, marketing and public relations, and the overwhelming amount of entertainment product is geared to their desires.

It’s basically putting into our subconscious that women and girls are most of all above everything else, recreational objects for men.'

Is it? Really? Or is it putting into boys subconscious that women are the 'prize', that it's women who are the reward to which men must appeal to and strive to please? If you fail in this what's the result (clue: which sex has the higher suicide rate?) Which sex is being exploited here?

[–]StoicSophist-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sasha_3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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