Does Man Really have to be masculine

syedalired21 · 2024-03-16T12:04:47+00:00

"I am fit and have a healthy weight"

That's awesome. You don't need anything else.

Belgium-all-round · 2024-03-16T14:04:49+00:00

You shouldn't be ashamed of who you are. Men come in all sizes and colors.
The cliché that you have to be extra masculine to be attractive is just that: a cliché.
And the male cliché's are nothing but toxic for billions of men.

In my own experience, I've found out that the first major factor to be perceived as attractive is self-confidence. That includes being kind to yourself and others, but also ready to set your own boundaries. I come from a place of deep insecurities and I know it's a long way to gain that confidence, but it's possible.

Due-Struggle-9492 · 2024-03-16T07:20:02+00:00

Not at all. Believe it or not, a lot of men prefer to be gentler, but society has crafted and molded things to make men seem like the bad guys and if they’re not ripped and constantly fucking a girl and stuff you’re seen as not manly enough or a female. Just think of the wise old sages who seem meek and mild, but can come out of left field and level a packed room that has men crying like babies as they begin to allow years of trauma and a lack of self-care come out. You’re good my dude, don’t let all the marketing hype get you down on yourself and self-conscious. If you want to change yourself, do it for you and to see what you like.

mr_ogyny · 2024-03-16T13:05:35+00:00

I see it as attempt to manipulate men by telling them how to act and behave. Some women define it in a way for them to exploit men whilst putting in the least amount of effort themeselves. For some, a 'good man' is a workhorse who pays for everything and doesn't open up too much because that requires too much effort from them. I don't believe that they actually find these traits sexually atttractive even though that is what they're looking for in their partner.

I'm of the opinion that men individually define their own idea of masculinity and not let others define it for you or shame you for it. How long can you keep up the pretence of a false personality? It sounds like a depressing way to live.

There are good women out there but I'm not going to pretend that you won't be cutting down on your dating pool. You will attract more women by giving into their idea of masculinity, but imo they're not the kind of women you would want in terms of personality.

Asamiya1978 · 2024-03-16T13:11:24+00:00

"Masculine" is a tricky term. Many people abuse it to impose toxic cultural stereotypes. The trick is to spot the fake cultural traits (such as being competitive, being aggressive, not crying, etc.), and just following nature.

If we clean our minds of cultural poisons what we see is our actual inner nature. Just listen to it and follow it. In my case, that goes against both the political left and the political right, because they both deny or ignore nature's true principles.

What is masculine and what is not is something that is decided by nature, not by political ideologies, cultures, etc.

If you get lost, follow your most inner nature. That is at least what I do. And believe me, it works. It avoid a lot of toxic shame, unfair feelings of guilt, complexes, bullshit, etc.

And also suspect any trait that is considered "masculine" and is not universal. Explore other cultures, read their stories, study how they interpret masculinity and you will start to see universal patterns, which in most cases have nothing to do with the modern Americanized culture's ones.

For example, I see Kenshin Himura, from the anime series "Rurouni Kenshin", as a role model of masculinity. He is a samurai. He is not muscular. He has long hair, round face, small hands, etc., but he is not effeminate. The guy is brave, he has honour, he fights for what is fair, etc. But many of those North American high school kids who like wrestling and "fighting for girls" would think that he is "gay" or "like a girl". You could search for real photographs of Native Americans and samurai from the XIX Century, they were not muscular, they had long hair, etc. So, by comparing cultures that way you can tell what is bullshit and what is not. For example "a guy with long hair is gay/girly" is bullshit. It is not an universal principle. It is a cultural stupidity coming from one of the most toxic and destructive cultures of the world.

Many people would laugh at me for giving an example of an anime character but when you don't have around a good real role model I think that characters work pretty well to fill that void left by a bad environment. Hunter gatherers have many stories of heroes which serve that exact purpose. Those stories give kids and young adults role models to admire and strive to become like.

That is my take on this. It takes time and effort because we have been taught too many false things since childhood but it is freeing.

IthrowAwayYourAdvice · 2024-03-16T10:20:18+00:00

"Masculinity" is something memetically enforced by women and society mainly to make men generate resources more efficiently, usually at the risk of their physical / mental health ir even life, if men were gentler with eachother we would have a lot less suicides.

Financial_Chemist286 · 2024-03-16T14:00:44+00:00

You don’t have to more masculine per se but you definitely have to be ruthless if you want to have any power and influence. This means you’re not a push over nor do you let your partners walk all over you.

Women aren’t interested in average men they chase the above average men.

That why men are so obsessed with power and being above average because even other men aren’t interested to listen to average men.

landzai · 2024-03-16T19:06:05+00:00

Look at Justin Bieber and all those K-Pop idols, I think that's all you need to know.

couldntyoujust · 2024-03-17T01:37:59+00:00

I do have some feminine features and I openly show my emotions and tend to get emotional a lot.

That's actually a masculine trait to me. Or, well, It's not feminine or un-masculine to have that trait. Honestly that's a good trait that some men struggle with because we were taught to suppress them. The masculine trait is not not showing your emotions openly or not getting emotional, the masculine trait is being able to control your emotions when it's needed.

Muscles are nice, but they don't define masculinity.

I think that masculinity is defined by more abstract personal qualities, like leadership, confidence, advocacy (not like political advocacy but defending the helpless), discipline, and passion. To me, that you get emotional shows passion. The fact that you like yourself shows that you're confident. If you have a heart to defend the helpless then embrace that because that's very masculine, and learn to be a leader - not a boss who rules over people with his authority - but someone who inspires others to be better if you don't already. If you live an undisciplined life, then you owe it to yourself to develop good habits and get your life in order.

Those are the masculine traits as I see them. but whether you have "stereotypically feminine" traits or not, is irrelevant. You already seem to embody some really masculine traits. If you want to have more control over your emotions, stoicism is very popular, and there are skills you can learn to gain more control over your emotions while still allowing yourself to be impacted, fully feel them, process them in a healthy way, and express them in an appropriate way.

You're a man, and probably a good man, and better still a sensitive man. That itself is masculine.

WBigly-Reddit · 2024-03-16T21:16:48+00:00

Back in the olden days, and yet in some select locations, it’s “Lords, Ladies and Gentlemen “. Notice who gets bottom billing.

jtgutman69 · 2024-03-17T00:25:38+00:00

Not on Reddit

TopPush34 · 2024-03-16T09:34:10+00:00

Yes it does, as you can see. The demand is huge. But honestly it doesnt worth it for a man. At least not in this times. As you can also see.

OperationAdvanced531 · 2024-03-16T23:10:41+00:00

No you don't have to be masculine but then you will be very unsuccessful with women. They will either leave you or cheat on you.

No-Recognition-4033 · 2024-03-16T07:03:52+00:00

ConsiderationSea1347 · 2024-03-16T15:28:33+00:00

People will use the term masculine to try and manipulate you. Come up with your own definition (if it is important to your gender identity). For me, masculinity is about doing what needs to be done be it lifting, meditating, writing, hugging, cleaning, fighting, whatever. Find your own definition.

Juragam-66 · 2024-03-16T16:17:13+00:00

Honestly it's yes and no. Yes because there are times when you gotta show masculinity for your family or an important event to show you aren't weak and. No because being masculinity 24/7 is honestly just over doing it and it's just stroking any unnecessary ego energy

Deutalios_818 · 2024-03-16T17:20:37+00:00

Yes.

imadfg · 2024-03-16T19:14:21+00:00

You're cool man

Maintenance_Fearless · 2024-03-16T23:53:22+00:00

You're you. Just try to be healthy and happy man. Screw expectations. Just don't hurt others or force your will upon them.

serial_crusher · 2024-03-17T00:22:40+00:00

Don’t let anyone else tell you how you need to be, king.

Daddy_Jaws · 2024-03-17T03:31:41+00:00

the fact you think its not masculine to be emotional or not look like wolverine. your fine dude masculine means male not sterotypically stoic and cold

IceCorrect · 2024-03-16T08:00:13+00:00

Usually yes. Being masculine it's not about muscles it's about facing life.

Alarming-Injury-8941 · 2024-03-21T07:41:28+00:00

I’m curious what you’re calling feminine features. There are superficial women who only date one type. There are many who don’t. The idea is just be who you are. Sometimes you’ll be single, sometimes you’ll have a partner and you’ll go back and forth the rest of your life. It’s just the way it is

Organic_Muffin280 · 2024-03-18T06:38:02+00:00

Most women hate the shit out of feminine men. Especially the most hot and feminine ones. Look for their Extreme opposite

Vaudeville_Clown · 2024-03-19T17:09:41+00:00

Nah, you can get by fine with some feminine features, but you need to be unapologetic and shameless about those things. If someone questions you about them (especially women) your instinct should be to laugh at time like they're something weird and foreign.

There is one trait which is crucial to have and that's to have a strong personality. If you do, everyone who has a weaker personality (more insecure, more anxious) will start questioning themselves, like what if you're the normal/sound one and they're not?

The social world is very much a Rule of the strong, and I've seen some men with some very feminine traits and affectations etc. excel at it, because in the one matter where it's essential to be masculine, they had it in spades.

(Roughly speaking, men are better than women at walking in and out of cultural consensus as they damn well see fit. Therefore it's masculine)

amongstTheIdiots · 2024-03-16T15:29:18+00:00

It’s not that people say that muscular men are more attractive to women. It is the truth. There’s a paper where they evaluate what qualities are most attractive to women, and the winner was, by a large margin, UPPER BODY FITNESS INDICATORS.

More than height. More than facial symmetry. More than hair.

UPPER BODY FITNESS INDICATORS.

Big chest, big arms, big shoulders, big forearms.

This is the single greatest attractor for most women.

If you are not hitting the gym and growing your muscles, you are a FUCKING MORON.

Geselshaft · 2024-03-16T07:17:55+00:00

Nope. Masculinity and femininity are bullshit marketing to sell you ideologies and products.

Ignore that nonsense.

OG_Rapist · 2024-03-16T10:28:56+00:00

Aljahim · 2024-03-16T11:21:31+00:00

You should start working out. Besides that you’re good

BiliLaurin238 · 2024-03-16T15:01:14+00:00

Nope, I've always been on the femboyier side and it's completely ok

CheezitCheeve · 2024-03-16T15:32:12+00:00

No.

In the same way that women can choose to play into their femininity or not, men should be able to play into their masculinity or not. The problem is if they play into their masculinity, they’re often seen as “Toxically Masculine.”

JasePearson · 2024-03-16T19:56:31+00:00

Just being fit and having a healthy weight is a good start. I've often seen men telling women it's easy to date, because all you have to do is not be fat, but I think that just applies to most of us, just being perceived as healthy rather than having a massive beer gut (or in my case, cheese) puts us much higher in the rankings when you first meet someone, I think anyway.

Thing is, people are going to be attracted based on preference. You saying you've got no muscle means just ruling out the partners that are going for that, unless you want to start putting it on yourself. Same with emotions, talk to the people you meet and work out whether or not that's what they're into. I've met women who prefer the man to be in charge, to the point of ordering for her while others (like my partner) completely shrugs off "gender roles" and would hate putting it all on me. I think I'm fairly middle ground, I can get upset and passionate, but I can hold it in and often got told I'm too reserved at times. I met my partner over six years ago and was told not to let them show at all by things like MGTOW and laughed at when I said actually, she encourages me communicate and let it out whenever is appropriate. I still don't go to the gym, I've cried openly, we're planning on being married in 2025.

As others will point out, and it is like beating a dead horse but CONFIDENCE in yourself is pretty important. Thought about changing yourself, considered, reconsidered and decided, no? Then don't, just be you and own it. Sure, lose out on the potential partners that are into something you thought about being, but then they weren't really the people you want to look at building a life with anyway. Like, if my missus was going to the gym everyday and that was her thing? Despite being happy as can be together, we'd have different priorities and she'd most likely be into someone a lot fitter than I because that's what she'd see every day and we'd probably would have never gone on that first date.

Personally, When I wasn't sure what to do I ended up losing a fair bit of a weight, got down to 82.5kg (13st) from 114.3kg (18st) and found people a lot more willing to chat to me, it's also around the time I met my partner. I've since started putting the weight back on, however, I realised the confidence that I gained by achieving a goal I'd been putting off for so long was the thing that actually helped me talk to others once I got the initial first impression out of the way.

This is a long way to kind of say, you should always improve yourself both physically and mentally, but we are who we are and if you are not a particular kind of person, don't expect to find potential partners where they're looking for that kind of person. Find somewhere you can be yourself and find someone you can do that with. And don't worry about masculine identity bollocks, for some reason some of the population thinks it can dictate was is masculine, feminine, womanly or manly. As a man, every action you take with confidence is manly. You change a diaper confidently? Manly. You fix a car confidently? Manly. Your stand in your kitchen stark bollock naked, confidently making a sandwich? You're the manliest son of a bitch in this sub.

bigdickk71 · 2024-03-16T12:51:31+00:00

That’s a landfill in Utah

omegaphallic · 2024-03-16T14:22:47+00:00

No, but manhood is personal journeys so you should figure out what they mean to you, and not have outsiders impose their view of your relationship with being a man upon you, because its always going to be to manipulate you in their self interest.

Yamariv1 · 2024-03-16T16:07:14+00:00

Simple, reverse the role and ask yourself if you are attracted to a masculine woman? I sure as heck am not, I prefer a feminine woman and I'm sure "most" women prefer a masculine man

Edit: Just reading more comments below and I'm very surprised.. Why do you guys think women chase the bad boy most of their lives?? Because he's masculine and attractive to their evolutionary side! Women LOVE masculine men but you keep telling yourself that crying and being feminine is attractive to women lol

Prime example I saw last week at the gas station.. A very feminine over weight man (mid 30's) gets out of his vehicle. He's got big love handles showing through his tight sweater, he's dressed well but you can tell he's never lifted a weight in his life. He also has a man purse strapped across his shoulder and pulls out a female style purse to pay. All of that is ok but ask yourself.. Do you think a woman has ever looked at this man and said "OMG, he just gets me so wet I can't control myself.." Um, nope, never happened!.

If you are this guy and wonder why your wife never wants to sleep with you, then you have your answer..

Title	Does Man Really have to be masculine
Author	alwaysanxious1995
Upvotes	62
Comments	55
Date	March 16, 2024 6:43 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1bg005w/does_man_really_have_to_be_masculine/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/does-man-really-have-to-be-masculine.1426668 https://theredarchive.com/post/1426668

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