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Gender pay gap 'does not exist' between men and women doing the same job

EvilPundit

May 12, 2016
437 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/11/gender-pay-gap-does-not-exist-between-men-and-women-doing-the-sa/
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Post Information
Title Gender pay gap 'does not exist' between men and women doing the same job
Author

EvilPundit

Upvotes 437
Comments 35
Date May 12, 2016 2:44 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4iymct/gender_pay_gap_does_not_exist_between_men_and/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/gender-pay-gap-does-not-exist-between-men-and.949757
https://theredarchive.com/post/949757
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Comments

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points31 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Oddly enough, taking those years off to have kids kills you on the promotions front, and those top positions aren't all that conducive to raising a family.

[–]bluefootedpig 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

How about helping men stay at home? My work wanted me back after 2 weeks, one of which was with my wife in labor.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points30 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Sure! I'm all for it, but I think you'll have to do some convincing of the 55% of women in a recent poll that said they preferred to do the parenting themselves and didn't want their hubby involved, plus you'll have to get NOW to relax on the 50/50 parenting thing they seem determined to oppose.

Women are their own worst enemy on this topic, I think.

[–]7hoosier 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This plus iirc, Men have requests for flexible working rejected 2x more often than Women.

So even when Men want to contribute in the household more they can't get the time off from their employers.

[–]Machnow 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

agreed.

[–]NixonForBreadsident 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminists are womens own worst enemy on this topic, I think

FTFY

[–]bluefootedpig 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

even at 55% (although I haven't heard that before) that is still 45% that do not agree with that. And I bet that number is shrinking.

But let's face it, our policy for paternity leave is a huge hindrance.

Women get 6 weeks off before birth, and like 12 weeks after (legally speaking). A man doesn't have nearly that time. And the fact that for men it is seen as optional means many employers expect you to opt out (like my job).

I personally think we should have some sort of subsidized income for 6 months for BOTH the mother and father.

It it was mandatory, and both genders had to take it, then companies wouldn't hire men over women because a "woman might have a child". As a guy would equally cost the the company the same.

And I think you can find strong support on both sides to get paid paternity leave. The only ones that hate it are the childless crowd. Maybe we could make childless citizens who go onto SS get a higher payment to compensate it... i don't know.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It it was mandatory, and both genders had to take it, then companies wouldn't hire men over women because a "woman might have a child". As a guy would equally cost the the company the same.

To an extent I agree, but if you read about how companies are compensating for this, 40% avoid hiring women of a certain age. That doesn't mean they are replacing them with men, necessarily.

And the primary motivating factor will still be there - to avoid people taking six months off of work, male or female, because of kids. They will just extend their current practices of avoiding younger women to younger people in general, or they would use the interview process to determine your dating status and discriminate based on that. Or, they will do it post hoc and once you've taken your first parental leave, you'll find work a LOT harder to handle.

[–]RockFourFour -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey shitlord, we should tell women what's good for them! They're not intelligent enough to think for themselves. (/s just in case).

[–]16sapphireguys 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They actually have this in the UK. There's a minimum amount of time women need to take off for health reasons, and I think guys get something like 2 weeks statutory paternity leave. But after that, the woman can choose to return to work and the guy can take her leave for himself.

I haven't seen any definite figures on how many people opt to do this, but it doesn't seem particularly common (to a point where a lot of people don't even know about it).

[–]bluefootedpig 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

well the problem I see is two fold with the "divide up the paternity leave".

As you mentioned, women have to take some time off, so they are already disrupting their workplace, so this would encourage women to take the remaining and not have the man do it.

Then on top of that, being optional, companies expect the men to not take it and look down upon it.

[–]SarahC 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From research - they found both men and women felt negative emotions when that was the case.

[–]lporiginalg 43 points44 points45 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The author needs to learn the difference between 'pay' and 'earn' since after announcing that women and men are payed the same she goes on to say over and over that men are payed more when it would be much more correct to say they earn more.

[–]Machnow 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

excellent point.....in fact, beautifully put.

"men are payed more when it would be much more correct to say they earn more."

[–]washburncrosby 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a statement. He's no Robert Frost...but...yeah

[–]snobocracy 16 points17 points18 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Why oh why won't this 'pay-gap' falsehood die?

It's like a zombie film where it keeps coing back to life. We've hit this thing with so much intellectual ammunition that the "gender pay-gap" zombie not only should have died, it should have been turned into mince at this point. And yet, there are still so many people in the world who still believe it. Why?

[–]Cerenex 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The same reason you still have anti-vaccine/GMO cults.

These groups are of the genuine belief that the system is trying to fool them/screw them over. What would pass as sound evidence to a normal person is treated with suspicion to the point of outright paranoia.

[–]ZilgornZeypher 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they act like the woman in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77GGn-E607E

[–]DrHoppenheimer 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because it's politically expedient.

[–]FrostLink 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the height of confirmation bias. They will never admit they were wrong because they have to protect their egos. Anything that's convienient to their narrative will immeditately be jumped on and anything that's inconvenient will be dismissed.

[–]whythisname 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Because it's so engrained into society now that even the President is "confirming" this belief

[–]NixonForBreadsident 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No different than politicians supporting Creationism really.

[–]Clockw0rk 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We have a cultural problem with anti-intellectualism.

Lies and fabrications exist in the mainstream conscious because our primary information sources, the media, has given up its role as gatekeeper of factual information and instead turned to the much more lucrative business of clicks and views through controversy.

Even with a mountain of evidence, people continue to be misinformed about climate change, the wage game, vaccinations, and politics because the media gets the most benefit out of "teaching the controversy". A definitive statement is not something you can revisit over and over again, but FUD can be recycled over and over.

Truth is the enemy of those that benefit from lies.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they WANT to believe it. Because there is no more fact checking in news reporting. Because fembots be programmed with retard-ness.

[–]baskandpurr 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Again, women don't want equal work. They want the top jobs, the ones with most status, influence and money. This article is an appeal for me to give them those jobs and those jobs only. The premise that the article puts forward, that the highest paid jobs make the difference, is mathematically impossible. There aren't enough high paid jobs to distort to figures to that degree. The actual reason for the "gap" is that women don't do as much work but there will never be a call to close the gap by women working longer hours.

[–]girraween 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I actually brought up that with two feminists I was debating with recently. Apparently the work culture in those dirty jobs is toxic towards women, "don't even get me started on the problems women would face in that job".

[–]manicmonkeys 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Apparently the work culture in those dirty jobs is toxic towards women, "don't even get me started on the problems women would face in that job".

Good thing men don't face any problems in those jobs!

[–]Cerenex 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Consider the following excerpt:

"If we want to close the pay gap and make a difference, it is the road to the top jobs that needs to be the focus. This is the pay gap problem.”

Nowhere in that article is the suggestion made that the road to the top jobs needs to be changed/altered. The road to the top jobs still entails:

  • Working the hardest out of your competitive pool of peers.
  • Longer hours at work.
  • Emphasis on the job/company, rather than the individuals personal-pursuits (such as wanting to be a mother).

My interpretation of this article is that women should be disabused of the notion that their gender has anything to do with their opportunities in the modern work-force. That they should be informed, in no uncertain terms, of the sacrifices required to succeed in the higher echelons of the industry. And that if they are unwilling to do so it is their own choice, for which they will reap what they sow.

[–]Alkomb 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Whenever I say it's fake on the internet, there's always these "women" who say that they get paid less than men for the same job. I just tell them to sue, then. If they really did, they'd take action. Feminists lie a lot.:\

[–]bumbuff 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Or its a shit job.

Nobody at my work discusses what each other makes. I have zero idea of what my female colleagues make. It's a very professional job in consulting for HVAC industries. We all make decent money. But no one will discuss their salary. No one wants to know because we know it's based on skill and time put in with the company.

Hourly jobs, everyone rattles off what they make. Hoping they make more then the next guy. Women are irritated they don't make the same money that some guys working their for 10 years does.

[–]Alkomb 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, exactly! How would they even know how much they make? Do they ask? That's just rude. (To ask.)

[–]16sapphireguys 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"If we want to close the pay gap and make a difference, it is the road to the top jobs that needs to be the focus. This is the pay gap problem.”

Why!? Surely there needs to be evidence that women face discrimination on "the road to the top jobs" for us to try and rectify it.

[–]Rockbottom503 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not at the top levels that the problem comes - the gap is generated at mid level! Ordinary men become trades people, plumbers, builders, oil workers on rigs - jobs that are dangerous, dirty and smelly - things that make them unattractive for women - conversely, women go into contact centres, receptions etc - jobs that have much better conditions BUT lower pay! They can afford to do this BECAUSE their husbands are out up to their necks in shit or breaking their backs on a fucking building site! What happens when the monetary incentive of doing this is removed??? Look at the local public sector - where work was graded and the bin men had to take a pay cut because the office assistant was also graded as low skilled! They all upped and left, and migrants were brought in to fill the gap, and where did they go?? Competing for the very easy jobs that women covet is where! This shit helps nobody.

[–]Rethgil 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It later claims the problem is women earn less overall because they are not in top jobs. Nor are ethnic minorities, the disabled, etc. But it ignores the balancing factor that although women may not be I'm the top jobs statistically, neither are MEN getting as much money from partners in romantic relationships. In other words, maybe if so many women weren't able to live wealthily off of their husbands riches, and divorce settlements, and alimony, they would be motivated to go out and GET the top jobs. Perhaps statistics cover the possibility that many women lack the motivation?

[–]PurpleViolettron 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Random mention of Czech Republic makes me want to point out that (excluding university personnel) most of the men I've met there work in IT or a job that involves travel while most of the women work part time in some sort of service industry. Also, it's one of those places where the retirement age is lower for women and is even fucking lower based on the number of children they've had according to one of my professors.

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