How do you really know a false accusation was actually false?

SodaPalooza · 2017-07-24T21:09:38+00:00

You never really know for certain. If an accuser admits that they made it all up, that is some reasonable evidence that it was a false accusation, but still not 100% conclusive. In my opinion, it lends more credence if the accuser provides an explanation for why they made it up (didn't want husband to divorce her, for example).

I don't want to speak for everyone here, but I think most MRAs position is that we know that false accusations happen, but there is really no idea to know how frequent they are. Just like we know rapes happen, but there is really no idea to know how frequent they are.

So when feminists claim that "only X(small)% of rape accusations are false", our response isn't "no, actually Y(high)% of rape accusations are false". Our response is "there is no way you could possibly know that; because in any given case, it is virtually impossible to know whether a rape occurred, or a false accusation occurred". The only exception is video evidence, reliable eye witness evidence or agreement between the parties. And even in those situations, there is frequently lingering doubt.

Demonspawn · 2017-07-24T21:36:52+00:00

How do you really know a false accusation was actually false?

Depends on the methodology of the study.

In the example of Kannin (tracked false rape accusations on a particular college's campus) he found 40% of accusations were false by the accuser's admission.

HiredMind · 2017-07-24T21:58:32+00:00

I assume you're talking about the kind of false-allegation stories that routinely show up in this sub, where the accuser waits months to report it, and has zero physical evidence of forcible rape (bruises, etc).

Depends on the allegation.

If the accused wasn't even there, you just have to prove it.

But if the accused and accuser both agree that sex did take place, then it gets dicey, because it's all about consent - about what's in someone's mind. But if she's sending him texts like "had a great time, let's do it again tonight" for 6 months after the "rape", that evidence goes a long way toward proving consent. (Evidence, by the way, that Canada is seeking to block - thereby providing Canadian men no means of building a defense in such cases)

I also don't like this whole false accusation idea, because what if kids who are sexually abused hear about it? they'll think even more that if they say anything no one will believe them right? it's slightly off topic but a side thought that really bothers me.

Is there any evidence that this actually happens? Even if there were, is it okay for the State to victimize innocent people to ensure the guilty are put away? And where does that end? For instance, would it be okay for the police to stand by and let a thug murder an innocent person in order to get it on video, guaranteeing a conviction? I vote no.

The State should do its best to find the truth, before taking someone's liberty away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_formulation

elchief99 · 2017-07-24T23:50:21+00:00

Concern trolling at its finest

rodrigogirao · 2017-07-25T00:52:20+00:00

Follow the principle: In dubio pro reo.

levelate · 2017-07-25T00:52:59+00:00

how do you really know that a rape was actually rape?

edit: maybe you raped me...if you say that it is false, then that may discourage others from coming forward for fear that they wont be believed.

serial_crusher · 2017-07-25T04:12:16+00:00

Yes, proving that an accusation was false is difficult. That's why there are very few people ever convicted of it. That's a good thing!

Our justice system assumes innocence. Before we send a person to jail or otherwise punish them for something, we should do our due diligence and make sure we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they actually committed the crime.

mwobuddy · 2017-07-24T22:46:03+00:00

She told cops Viafore — who would have been her third husband — had pressed her for “sexual stuff” she wasn’t ready for.

http://nypost.com/2017/07/24/kayak-killer-pleads-guilty-to-homicide-in-fiances-death/

women blame alcohol and/or men for having one night stands, but go out seeking to get drunk and have a one night stand anyway.

They want someone else to bear the responsibility.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6pc10i/just_wow/

RapeMatters · 2017-07-24T22:06:17+00:00

You can't - but there's a fair distinction to make. There are true accusations, maliciously false accusations, and accidentally wrong accusations.

The true pretty well speaks for itself. Maliciously false accusations are those where the accuser seeks to gain from the accusation (in divorce court, in college to get concessions, etc). Accidentally wrong could be accusing the wrong party while legitimately believing it, or believing a certain act was rape when it failed to meet the legal requirements for rape (i.e., consenting and believing something vitiated consent and it didn't).

Vandechoz · 2017-07-25T04:13:24+00:00

they'll think even more that if they say anything no one will believe them right?

if they don't think their parents will believe them, that's on the parents for apparently not instilling a sense of trust in their child

if they think the legal system won't believe them...well, that's irrelevant; the only relevant thing as far as the law is concerned should be what the evidence is able to show

mrwhibbley · 2017-07-25T07:55:34+00:00

False accusations can be proven in several ways. Physical evidence that the people were not in the same are at the same time. Texts or emails that admit to lying about the allegations, or admit to intend to lie about false allegations. Proof that evidence was falsified. And admission by the accuser that allegations were falsified. I am sure there are other ways but those are just what comes to mind

mikesteane · 2017-07-25T10:55:07+00:00

In the case of Frederick Martens, he was able to prove he was not even in the country at the time the alleged rape took place. Only due to his wife not giving up and finding this proof - which the Australian Federal Police had access to the whole time - was he released from prison. But not before his $45million business empire had collapsed and his 3 y.o. daughter died of malaria because he could not get treatment to her.

DavidByron2 · 2017-07-25T17:43:31+00:00

You make a determination on the basis of the evidence...... just like with every other thing in life.

Welcome to planet earth by the way.

Title	How do you really know a false accusation was actually false?
Author	twitterfly23
Upvotes	12
Comments	42
Date	July 24, 2017 8:57 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6pbc9c/how_do_you_really_know_a_false_accusation_was/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-do-you-really-know-a-false-accusation-was.917265 https://theredarchive.com/post/917265

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