In Australia, it's not rape unless there is penetration. This is why men are often not counted in rape statistics, because vaginal rape is not validated by the legal system.

Edna69 · 2012-12-20T13:30:12+00:00

Hi guys,

Downvote me all you like, but what I am posting here is the truth.

The article, or at least the interpretation of the article that is being bandied about here, is incorrect.

A woman who has sex with a man without his consent rapes him and commits the crime of rape (or whatever the crime is called in that State). While penetrating the victim forms part of the definition of rape, it is not the whole definition. There is an "or" between each part of the definition. Having carnal knowledge of a person without that person's consent is considered rape, too. Carnal knowledge occurs when a penis enters a vagina. That definition does not mention who owns the penis. So a woman who "envelops" a man without his consent has raped him because she has carnal knowledge without consent.

I know that's not going to be popular because you all like to jump on the band wagon. But that is the state of play in my home State of Queensland, where I am entitled to practice law.

In Victoria: A person (the offender) commits rape is they are penetrated by a person (the victim) without the victim's consent.

In South Australia and Tasmania: A person commits rape if they engage in sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent. (no mention of who is penetrating who)

In New South Wales: A person who has sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent commits a sexual assault. (there is no crime of "rape" as such) (once again, no mention of who wields the penis)

In the Australian Capital Territory: A person who engages in sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent commits the crime of "sexual intercourse without consent". (there is no crime of "rape" as such) (once again, no mention of who has the penis)

In the Northern Territory: A person commits the crime of "Sexual intercourse and gross indecency without consent" if they have sexual intercourse with a person without that person's consent. (no crime of "rape" as such) (no mention of who owns the penis)

In Western Australia: This is the ONLY place in Australia where who does the penetrating matters. There is no crime called "rape", but there is the crime of "Aggravated sexual penetration without consent". Only the penetrator can be guilty of that crime. However, there is also the crime of "Aggravated sexual coercion" which has the same penalty and makes no mention of who is penetrating who.

So seriously, OP's headline is kinda sorta maybe right for Western Australia, but not really. Everywhere else in Australia, the definition of rape (or whatever the equivalent crime is actually called) makes no mention of gender or who is doing the penetrating. In those States, a woman who has sex with a man without his consent will be guilty of the same crime that a man who has sex with a woman without her consent would be.

I love everyone in /r/MensRights and you have all given me a lot of strength in the time that I have been active in this subreddit. But please please please if we're going to get outraged about something please make sure it's real. Otherwise we look like a pack of idiots and no one will take us seriously. If that happens, we can't continue the good work that has been done.

TL;DR: OP's headline is wrong. Everyone is getting worked up over something that doesn't exist.

Apellosine · 2012-12-20T06:48:55+00:00

The problem with these laws is they only criminalise penetrative sexual assault and not envelopment sexual assault under the purview of rape.

Pecanpig · 2012-12-20T08:46:59+00:00

How can you vaginally rape someone without penetration?...I thought penetration was kinda necessary for sex.

cronus85 · 2012-12-20T05:28:45+00:00

Same in New Zealand.

Aerithia1 · 2012-12-20T07:07:46+00:00

The law should be updated, were I raped by a woman in this country It would be sexual assault or sexual misconduct, assuming it would even be prosecuted.

johnny_gunn · 2012-12-20T07:24:26+00:00

I don't understand how this discriminates against men. Could someone explain?

smegnose · 2012-12-20T05:01:19+00:00

do you mean "non-vaginal"?

actanonverba8 · 2012-12-20T08:12:08+00:00

Good post. If anyone is curious about what female on male vaginal-penile rape is called, it's "rape by envelopment" (I've seen it called "rape by engulment" too).

2012-12-20T11:21:00+00:00

Same in the US.

daredevilk · 2012-12-20T12:40:27+00:00

As an Australian 16 year old Male.... this scares me.

scanspeak · 2012-12-20T12:51:06+00:00

Rape should be defined as forcing a sex act onto someone, male or female.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2012-12-20T16:00:46+00:00

Men shouldn't be counted among rape victims because men are never raped. Case in point this study which shows that men are never raped by excluding them from those statistics.

Circular logic is awesome.

Revoran · 2012-12-20T04:16:06+00:00

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