In This Thread: State your reason for advocating Men's Rights

caitlinbc · 2011-01-17T01:05:40+00:00

My reason is that men are discriminated against, especially boys and fathers. I am a female and have always looked up to men. Men do so much for the world and don't get enough appreciation.

Father's rights is also a reason why I'm for Men's rights. Fathers are just as important and shouldn't be ripped off their rights. Many women have taken them to the cleaners and not allow them to see their children. The court system is not fair to them at all. Fathers deserve a right to see their kids.

2011-01-17T01:59:08+00:00

Divorce and child custody is my #1 reason. I am actually a happily married family man, so I have no first hand experience of family court. But I know that I serve in my roles as husband and father only at the pleasure of my wife, and that it could all be taken from me at her whim. I have few rights as a father under the law. I think that needs to change.

My 2nd issue is education for boys. I have three sons, and the anti-male bias in the public school system is obvious.

3rd is healthcare. I am very conscious about health issues, and it disturbs me that men only get 1/3 of the healthcare spending and 1/3 of the medical research, and that we have to subsidize the 2/3 share that women are getting. All the while we suffer more disease, and die earlier.

hiddentofu · 2011-01-16T23:44:54+00:00

I used to work in an emergency room, I remember the police bringing in men and women who had injuries as a result from their domestic dispute. There were incidents where the assumption of some of the medical staff and police was that the man was at fault, and he would be questioned in a completely different manner from the woman. It was assumed it has at fault.

I've had to make statements too many times in defense of the men, who were defending themselves from getting cut or punched further, the bruises on the women were a result of the man holding them back to avoid further injury. Domestic violence has male and female victims, but from what I have seen and experienced at work, there is much less protection for men, and I believe that everyone should have the same amount of protection from abuse.

After I was done with school and no longer working in the ER, I worked in a residential treatment facility for children. In treating the child, part of that is getting the parents involved. I've seen some horrible cases where some fathers have had their parental rights reduced or terminated. I've sat in family court and have seen the father get totally screwed too many times to believe that parental rights are equal for both genders.

I'm not a bitter person, I don't hate women, I don't hate men. I'm not an anti-feminist, or anti-MRA, I feel what I believe is simple, that neither gender should have rights that inferior to the other, and from my work experience the law does not protect both genders equally.

AnnArchist · 2011-01-17T01:02:44+00:00

In order:

1) Custody. Men should have the right to 50/50 primary custody every time.

2) Hospitals should not release a newborn from the hospital without the following: A father identified by a legally mandated paternity test (the father can give a sample prior to birth or be notified and have 24 hours to get to the hospital, father being identified and notified at check in), or a sworn statement stating that the father is unknown followed by the mothers picture being published in the paper so that the father can come forward to raise his child or a sworn statement claiming the father is dead. To lie on the sworn statement would carry a mandatory minimum of probation and the immediate loss of primary custody along with a significant child support order. Its in the best interest of a child to have a father.

3) Child support should be abolished for fathers who want 50/50 custody. Completely abolished. If you want to have your child, you need to be able to support it on your own.

I support non-custodial parents who don't want custody getting fucked in family court. If you don't want your kid, then really I have no sympathy for you.

However, children are not paychecks. If one parties income changes, there should be a simple form that immediately adjusts the child support rate instead of allowing it accrue while waiting for a court date. There should only be child support if there is a difference in time spent in regard to physical custody.

4) Alimony should not exist. You aren't performing your wife or husbandry duties anymore. You don't get to reap the benefits anymore either. People don't pay a prostitute to not fuck them. No one should be force to pay someone to not love/fuck/spend time with/care about them.

5) Women and men should not receive gender specific benefits. No grants for women, no grants for men, no scholarships for just women. Womens studies should be abolished. Its sexist and perpetuates the false stereotype that women are victims or discriminated against.

6) Abortion should be encouraged. We don't need more people in the world. Unwanted babies hurt men and women. There is no single greater factor ensuring poverty than getting pregnant as a teen.

7) Men(and women) should not be put in prison for getting behind on child support. Ever. If you are broke then the child's standard of living SHOULD go down, just like it would go up if you were wealthy.

8)False rape accusations should always result in a custodial sentence. It should also result in the accuser being force to pay a percentage of all income (including her husbands future earnings if she marries) for the rest of her life. Since the accused man will not get many jobs because of the accusation, he is permanently disabled by an accusation.

9) Prenups should be completely valid everytime. Inheritances should always be legally mandated as the property of the heir in the event of divorce to ensure estates stay in tact. They should not be tossed out in court no matter how ridiculous the contract is (including stipulations relating to their weight, their employment status, the lack of children anything)

There should be an avenue to ensure that men can visit their non-spouse girlfriend in the hospital with written notarized permission, same for gay couples.

Civil unions should be available as an alternative to marriage. They should be allowed to come with a renew date option (instead of in perpetuity) that way, you can get all the benefits (health insurance, life insurance, visitation in the hospital, joint tax returns) without the risks of divorce (shared assets, alimony, a divorce lawyer's salary)

10) Pregnant women should be put in jail for being pregnant and doing things that are well known to cause birth defects. They should have the option to abort or stay in jail until the child is born once they prove they can't be trusted to not hurt the fetus. Disabled children are more expensive and many birth defects are completely avoidable. Allowing pregnant women to drink while pregnant creates an added expense for both the woman and the man. This type of legislation would protect men, women and children.

Theres more, but this brings up a lot of things.

pcarvious · 2011-01-17T01:17:44+00:00

I want to be a teacher, but every time I've tried to volunteer in classrooms with 5th and 6th graders I get the evil eye from every woman in the room and building.

thetrollking · 2011-01-17T03:41:21+00:00

At 25 I made a noose and thought about killing myself after one of my best friends killed himself and after a few friends died in car crashes and two were murdered(by a woman and her three thugs) and I took the noose off my neck and looked at the number of knots. I realized that there were ten knots and I needed many more just to tally the number of boys and men I knew who killed themselves. I only counted to a second degree. So I didnt' count my feminist guidance counselors son who I never met who killed himself. I didn't count the guy on my freshman dorm floor who hung himself cause I only talked to him once and that was passin him in the hall saying HI. I didn't count my uncles fathers boyfriend who killed himself after my uncles father died, cause I didn't know him.

I did count a friend from HS who got caught with his promise keeper gf having sex and she said he forced her cause she didn't want to get into trouble with her uber conservative parents. The charges in that case were dropped cause she didn't want to see her bf of two years in jail but when they looked for him to tell him they found him hangin in the closet with a bag over his head. I didn't count my friend jeff who was an amazingly talented drummer(after two months playing he could do taps the drummer band teacher couldn't do who had 20 yrs experience) who one day bragged about how he was smoking crack....no one in my generation smoked crack cause it was cool.

See I was raised by a feminist and used to support it cause I only knew about it from the propaganda of "feminism means women are people too"(what are they aliens??). So I started researching it and taking some hard looks at my life. I thought about the time I was forced to go to AA/NA meeting in a rehab plea agreement cause I was arrested for pot at 17 and how I met a woman who was silver tongued and could play people. I would sit there and hear her horror stories as she would talk about all the shit she would do on the drugs she took and then one day I saw all the men give her sympathy when she said she had killed her husband while he slept. She ofcourse blamed him but she also didn't even go to jail. I started reading into feminism and seeing what was behind the curtains so to speak. I could go on and on talking about one ex gf(omg, I thought we were all pussy ass virgings living in our mothers basements) who I loved who cheated on me and claimed she was raped by one of my friends. It was a lie. I could talk about another gf who, when I was a punk rocker in HS, gave me a special present. I still have the word FILTH scarred into my chest from her razor blade today. I could talk about the number of times I was sitting there just trying to love the girl of the moment and listened to her talk about how she hated her dad cause he wasn't around and how when she was 8 or 9 or 12 or 5(I have heard it so many times) she got a call from her divorced dad on her birthday and she did what her mom told her to do and told him she hated him and not to call her again. Then she tells me how she really hates him cause he listened to her and stopped calling her on her bdays. Then they always say that they actually hate their mothers even more for chasing off their fathers.

I could talk about how in 3rd grade I realized there was nothing I could do to please my teachers. I could talk about having a large chunk of my boyhood medicated away from me because we boys are bad and we need to be fixed so we can become 'good' feminist men. I could talk about how I remember my feminist mother playing all sorts of mind games or how I remember her smacking the shit out of me more than I remember her ever saying anything nice. I could talk about how when I dropped out of HS at 18 I got a job as part of the court order and in one year I worked with guy after guy who was divorced and told me the same stories. One was a ex olympic athlete who had been divorced and now works in a grocery store. Another was a ex NASA employee who worked in the frozen food dept. More were just poor guys who didn't know what would happen when their gfs got pregnant. I could talk about another friend of mine who in HS in gf got pregnant and decided she didn't need him so she didn't put his name onthe BC and how when I talked to him telling him it might be better that he doesn't get to see his child cause he dodged a bullet he talked about how he grew up without a father and wanted to stop the cycle. I could talk about seeing my own father one week out of the year. I could talk aabout one of my friends from HS who used to skip school with me to get high and how one day we got into a deep philosophical conversation and how he said the most amazing thing to describe the feeling of growing up without much of a dad. He said it was like his sould was infected with cancer. I understand that. he is dead today. I understand the deep dark black hole that can't be gotten rid of and is the result of my mom and how she saw me and my dad and our relationship. I can talk about the teachers in 5th and 7th and 9th grade who literally marked down the scores of the boys in the class. I found out cause I trusted that it must have been a mistake. I would compare my test to a female friends and see that she made a mistake. Fool me once, fool me twice, thrice, and I wish I could say I didn't trust women so much but I remember finally tearing up the test and laying my head on the desk and saying fuck it. I could talk about the police state and how at 13 I walked down my own fucking street and saw a cop car pass and was stupid enough not to fear it. I can talk about how the cop through me down on the hood of his car, placed his baton at the back of my neck, punched me in the balls while grabbing at them and then called ME a faggot. I can talk about how that was a regular occurence until I stop dressing like a punk. I can talk about how today I don't dress as a punk and just two weeks ago it happened again. I did the same thing I did at 13 and pointed to the place that I live that was less than one hundred feet away. I can talk about how one year ago the same thing happened. I walked my dog up and down the street and saw a cop pass once or twice and went inside only to realize I left one of my college books n my car. So I went to get it and then five cop cars later and being called a faggot later I was let go. Only to see the same cops drive up next to a crackhead looking girl and ask her if she needed some assistance the next day. I can talk about how I am a white middle class dude who went to a shitty public school that didn't have enough books for the kids in the south. I can tell you that my black friends got it worse than me and they were the ones to clue me in by saying "TK, WTF. You really believe those pigs. You really think they were worried about you casing the area cause there were some break ins....WHAT breakins. It's your hood and you would know." And yknow, I live right off a college campus and if a guy walks through a parking lot with a girl in it we get a automated email alert about a scary guy walking across a college parking lot....wtf. I could talk about all of this plus so so so sos os ososososososososo much more. I didn't even begin to put together all these experiences into a matrix of inter related commonalities until a few years ago and I am still trying to break free of my feminist conditioned cognitive dissonance. I could talk about how in my philosophy and anthropology classes and other humanities classes I have learned not to engage in critical thought because the feminist orthodoxy doesn't like it. I could talk about all the various men and boys I have known, and girls, who because of social engineering ideals have been crushed while girls were elevated to unreal and unfound heights. I could go into detail about all of this plus so much more but the reason I didn't post any of this on the other posts asking these questions is cause when I really sit back and look at it I just want to blow my fucking head off. It's one of the reasons I haven't posted shit on my own blog or personalized sub in months....there is only so much one person can take but we men need to be stronger than ever because we have been in a war our entire lives. The difference between us and feminists is that they convinced us that we weren't at war(a cold war) and we were stupid enough as men who were raised by women to trust them at their word cause, after all, women wouldn't do that. They are sugar and spice and everything nice.

hopeless_case · 2011-01-16T23:35:41+00:00

What pushed me over the edge was watching my wife's cousin destroyed by the family court system, starting with a false accusation of domestic violence his wife made against him.

kragshot · 2011-01-17T06:07:30+00:00

I'm the victim of a false rape accusation from a married woman who wanted to hide an extra marital affair from her husband and her neighbors. Despite the fact that I was four towns away being ticketed by a state trooper, the presiding judge had to be forced to admit said trooper's testimony and the ticket as evidence placing me away from the scene of the crime.

In addition, I had to sue that same jurisdiction to change the recorded verdict from "not guilty" to "innocent," and then when it was revealed that the woman made the whole accusation up to hide the affair, I was not allowed to sue her for libel, slander, and defamation of character.

I lost both of my jobs, nearly all of my friends, my at-the-time girlfriend, my professional reputation was ruined, my family suffered, and I had to undergo therapy due to depression and intense thoughts of suicide. The only saving grace in my situation was that this happened before the advent of the internet, so I was able to leave home and create a new life. With the declaration of "innocence" on my record about this case, my record is for all practical purposes, "officially" sealed, so I was free to try to rebuild my life without this coming up on "background searches."

This was bullshit more than 20 years ago when it happened to me, it was bullshit when this garbage caused the destruction and deaths in Rosewood, Florida, Tulsa, Oklahoma and now we have bigoted cranks like Jessica Valenti calling for elimination of due process for men accused of rape.

"It's shit like this, reddit."

kloo2yoo · 2011-01-16T21:15:18+00:00

I had personal problems with girl bullies early in my life, and they were protected by the 'no can hit gerlz' rule. this was reflected repeatedly in later times when I was sexually harassed by women, sometimes institutionally, and had resources withdrawn because I reported and complained about it.

InfinitelyThirsting · 2011-01-17T02:19:08+00:00

I'm a woman, and an optimistic realist (I don't believe good things against evidence, but I believe in the option of good things and for fighting for good things even if the odds are against you), and an egalitarian, with some socialist leanings, and a huge animal welfare advocate (not in the PETA sense, nor am I vegetarian, but about treating animals well, and I'm very into animal rescue). And nothing, NOTHING, bothers me more than hypocrisy.

The MRM is very necessary, and criminally misjudged and scorned. Men are not pedophiles. Men are not unable to care for children. Men are not disposable, or superfluous. Men deserve the same reproductive rights as women. Men deserve respect.

We fought against the stereotype that women aren't as smart, or are too emotional and illogical. So why do we let people get away with stereotyping men as uncaring, or perverts? We realised that not all women want to stay at home, and that they're capable of being in the workforce. So why are men not granted equal custody, why can't they stop their children from being adopted, why are stay-at-home dads scorned and fathers with their children treated as freaks? Women are more than just baby-factories, so why aren't men seen as more than a working body? If a woman has the right to have sex freely, and to get an abortion, or put a child up for adoption or abandon it at a hospital or a firehouse if she doesn't want the responsibility, then why are men told that every time they have sex, they are on the hook for supporting any child that might result?

There's a lot of hypocrisy in this subreddit, certainly, and I argue against it all the time, but any individual member does not mean that the cause is unworthy, though there are certainly those who just make the MRM look horrible and like everything the media and feminists make it out to be. But the cause itself? Anyone who actually cares about equality and working towards a better world should support it, or they're a hypocrite or remaining willfully blind and ignorant.

2011-01-17T05:12:38+00:00

I stand for individual rights, first and foremost. I don't stand for men's rights, but against misandry, feminism, and female privilege at the expense of men.

2011-01-17T06:09:16+00:00

I have detected subtle misandry throughout my life. I always knew something was wrong. Until I found the men's movement, I never really considered the full extent of it.

Adjective_ · 2011-01-17T08:16:17+00:00

I'm currently a nursing student and one of the main philosophies that we must embrace is feminism; where the definition writes:

"Societal oppression of women is examined and questions are raised about the role of women in society. Such change fosters the empowerment of women and promotes the end of patriarchy. Today, feminism has developed into an inclusive perspective of liberation for all people...Embracing a feminist perspective within the curriculum helps identify and name experiences of women in society and in doing so gives voice to women and men."

I find that throughout our textbooks it would heavily emphasize special treatment to women and mentions feminism. The lack of attention to male issues bothers me.

2011-01-17T02:34:54+00:00

I got involved because of the feminist bias in my psychology degree. I continue to stay involved because I like reflecting on the culture that we live in. I think I also stay involved because I'm not much of a conformist and advocating male rights is a pretty strong expression of that.

I'd also like to add that I meant to say male rights there, as men are a subset of males. I appreciate the experience you have had that caused you to get involved in the movement, but I think we need to be inclusive if we are to be successful, so we need to use a broader term. There are many issues for boys (e.g. education style that suits females, too many female teachers), for example, meaning that fighting for their rights under the banner of Men's Rights does not seem to fit. Male Rights is only slightly different in name, but much different in scope.

I'd like to make the further point that, ultimately, one consequence of the Male Rights movement may in fact be that more males steer clear of seeking to become men, since the culture only awards this label to males that essentially display their willingness to be disposable or expendable and this in turn leads to many of the issues males have, such as poorer longevity, poorer health care and a general lack of interest in their physical and psychological welfare.

svonnah · 2011-01-17T04:43:39+00:00

My boyfriend is my best friend and the love of my life, and I would hate for anyone to automatically assume he's a pervert or predator just because of his gender. I want every happiness for him and misandry prevents that.

Plus I wrote my first novel about a societal power gender swap, and became more interested in men's rights issues as time went on.

Bobsutan · 2011-01-17T06:08:12+00:00

Well, here's one...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0X1ggm5ZqsA/TP1Y6rPpUiI/AAAAAAAAJys/dA1CwvUDBJ4/s1600/women.jpg

strangersadvice · 2011-01-17T13:10:08+00:00

I don't really want to get into all of my issues right now (I've shared some of them on reddit...feel free to wade through my comment history if you're so inclined). Suffice it to say: some shit happened to me and some shit happened to friends and family of mine. I could always tell that something wasn't quite right, but couldn't really put my finger on it. However that wasn't what made me an MRA. When all is said and done, I'm an MRA because of reddit. If I hadn't been exposed to well crafted, dispassionate arguments by intelligent MRAs, I would assume the MRM was just some fringe movement advocating hate. That's the image I was preconditioned to see thanks to years of thought-terminating cliches such as: "feminism is about equality".

2011-01-18T02:19:15+00:00

I have two daughters, and I want them to have stable, healthy relationships.

LesHiddins · 2011-01-16T22:23:07+00:00

Because no one else is doing it.

Quazz · 2011-01-17T04:46:50+00:00

I want equality.

That is all.

thetrollking · 2011-01-17T10:12:23+00:00

@strangersadvice

Sorry for hoggin your post but really, some things need to be said.

So. Will the real MRAs please stand up, Please stand up.

Feminists fuck off and die. Really, I hear that gravity is nothing more than a social construct. Why don't you test that 9.8 m/s² and see how it can be falsified. I am sure if you believe you can fly, then you can. You can also probably find a nice testing platform close by, I know most places have atleast one bridge....;)

And dude. Sorry for the drunkin rants but some things just can't be held in forever.

vintermann · 2011-01-17T16:37:00+00:00

Yeah, through divorce and bitter custody disputes (have managed to avoid courts so far). I came to the conclusion that while women's aggression typically takes different forms than men's in our culture, it's no less real. And while men are taught to restrain their aggression, women are, by some nasty brands of pop-psychology and "feminism", instructed to indulge in it as a matter of duty (to themselves or their gender).

I notice some posters here encourage non-violent aggression in return, I'm strongly opposed to that. I believe in the moral high ground - keeping it may not win my battle, but it's what will eventually win the war.

kaesylvri · 2011-01-17T19:21:08+00:00

For me, it was abuse. Abuse that no one in any form of authority could, or would, bother to help me with. I was ground down to a point of depression and I was told that doing anything was impossible (and at times even wrong) because the source of my issues was a woman.

I respect both women and men with every fiber of my being, however I am also against abuse of any form. I am not fearful or hateful of feminists, but while they may not like the reality of the situation, there is a disproportionately high amount of feminists that use that guise as a hard point to launch assault against others.

I am a man, and I have rights. Women were mistreated for a very long time, there is no doubt of that - equality is a birthright of all things. But that equality does not give any group the right to snipe at another. Equality is equal, not fucking biased.

Edit: Roundabout to my original point: I try to advocate men's rights, as I believe we shouldn't be marginalized. Yes, women were often left with no recourse (like I had) when men were abusive, moreso in the 40s than now, really - but that does not mean that retaliation is correct.

tl/dr: If real men don't stand up to defend real rights, then both sides, female and male, will never have real equality.

BolshevikMuppet · 2011-01-18T18:37:36+00:00

There are ways in which men are discriminated against, is probably why I started out. Some family court stuff (especially the inability to protest paternity after a divorce is finalized).

But, more recently, I'm an MRA because I believe that we can be the first steps in alleviating some of the societal impediments to true equality. We can be the first step in telling young boys that education is the most important thing, and redefine masculinity in a way that encourages young men writ large to excel academically. We can redefine masculinity to be supportive of boys, rather than undermining them, forcing them to choose between being a "man" (and doing stupid, self-destructive, things) or being a "pussy" (and being responsible, ethical, law-abiding, and intellectual)

strangersadvice · 2011-01-16T21:04:50+00:00

In another thread we are discussing symbols, so I think this (here) is a discussion that should be had concurrently.

2011-01-17T02:11:08+00:00

Because I'm male. I am in favor of that which benefits me.

Title	In This Thread: State your reason for advocating Men's Rights
Author	strangersadvice
Upvotes	13
Comments	96
Date	January 16, 2011 9:03 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/f3f4l/in_this_thread_state_your_reason_for_advocating/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/in-this-thread-state-your-reason-for-advocating.1044276 https://theredarchive.com/post/1044276

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