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Mr Barry is AntiMRA

PM_ME_UR_PC_SPECS

August 4, 2018
20 upvotes
/r/MensRights
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Post Information
Title Mr Barry is AntiMRA
Author

PM_ME_UR_PC_SPECS

Upvotes 20
Comments 29
Date August 4, 2018 7:54 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/94lx9j/mr_barry_is_antimra/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mr-barry-is-antimra.1185911
https://theredarchive.com/post/1185911
Top posts by PM_ME_UR_PC_SPECS

If only.

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I made a collection of inequalities suffered by men, and I thought I would share with you. Feel free to make suggestions of additions here or on the doc.

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A real man.

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I get the feeling that most people here do not even know this exists, so here it is!

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Comments

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Those things are always growing stronger. The problem is that the percentage isn't going to change weather there are 100 deaths or 10000000. The problem is that men are bearing the brunt of those deaths because they are forced into dangerous jobs they can't opt out of, but women can.

[–]Tefai 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Men are willing to take more risks in life in general, so once we're in a dangerous industry we are also more inclined to do something risky if asked to do so by the boss. Regardless of country males make up 90% + of deaths, but actually increasing OH&S laws help. Holding managers of companies accountable for safety is the only way, it helps a lot here.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

It would help, and men do take risks. But the reason they take risks is to support their families, usually.

[–]Tefai 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

No, men and boys always take risks it's how we are made. If we weren't prepared to take a risk we wouldn't defend our families etc, it's our risk taking plus dangerous jobs make for a deadly mix. Think about all the risks you've taken in your life over dumb shit, I know I have; families had nothing to do with it. I've done dumb shit to prove myself to friend's, dumb shit at work to try and prove something to my boss and I didn't have anyone to look after but myself. I agree high paying jobs in high risk environments would help families, but a lot of fatalities are not high paying jobs.

Managers accountable for safety and a shift away from a bonus mentality is the best way to start. If people know they're going to get a paid enough to survive without the bonus they won't cut corners and take risks. It's just a whole volatile problem, Canada and the US are the worst countries for workplace injuries in the OECD. Both these countries push so hard for hitting a goal that is achievable by cutting corners or offering incentive to produce more and to do that cut corners, all the time the management looks the other way until something tragic happens. It's just a very messy situation, but as I said men still make up 90% of injuries all over the world regardless of the OH&S in place. But changing something like practises and standards will lower the overall number.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

That's true - but think about why a working man might sign up for a job with a risky environment. Historically it was because they had to. There's a difference between showing off and the daily grind.

[–]Tefai 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

But why do you have to sign up for a dangerous job? No one is forcing a man to do that, its their choice.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

What if they live in a heavily industrial area or a fishing community it's the only job they can get? Historically, men didn't get a chance to choose. They'd be down the mines at elementary school age, six days a week til the day they died.

[–]Tefai 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Historically no-one really got to choose, except draft and conscription really screwed over the guys. But we're not talking about the past we're talking about the present, talking about history doesn't benefit your point at all here and it doesn't build a conversation. People these days have lots of choices, and all types of work the injury % isn't something that is going to change unless people's attitudes change.

At work I see it all the time, we haven't had a fatality in over 30 years, we do have injuries a fair bit; but just in using the heavy machinery there is a massive difference in how each person approaches it or not. Generally speaking (something I hate using) forklifts as an example men's are driving around at maximum speed within an hour or so after having a little experience women don't do it after being on their for months. It could be the risks they're not willing to take or they respect the machine more than men. Cranes are almost the same you'll see men with massive swing moving a load and we're more inclined to rush it, I know I've done it a lot.

The business has had a few crane incidents recently a few over in the US and some back home, the ones in the US were actually a lot more dangerous than the ones we had back here. But the work force is around 95 or 96% males on the lines/floor, even less women in management. The business is trying to take the OH&S standards we have here and implement them in their US acquisitions but it is hard changing the culture.

That is something management has to do, and the OH&S standards is something that will really help. Unions and other forms of workers representatives are more important than ever, and the US is lagging behind on this issue same as Canada. We're unionised here and the business negotiates with the Union on a majority of things, but the company's standard point on health and safety is paramount. The first act of business in any meeting is safety, all the managers bonuses are attached to a safety rating, if I recall correctly it's 25% of their yearly bonus is based on safety and their bonus is generally around 10% of their income.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That's fair enough. Sounds like we should push more women into those jobs regardless.

[–]Tefai 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I think anyone who wants to work is capable should be in those jobs. Pushing solely for women is what my company is doing now and it is horrible.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Oh, I don't mean with quotas, I just mean we could advertise to them or something.

[–]Tefai1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They're trying to do that, but hiring and ended up firing 50% of the female hires recently, the bunch before that were good.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Hmmmmm. It's not an easy thing to solve really. I can see why quotas are attractive.

[–]Tefai2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Qutoas are bad, hiring for the sake of hiring isn't helpful to a business; it's just PR.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yep. And you get crappy workers too.

[–]andejoh 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Usually because of the pay difference, but sometimes it's the only job that's available. It could also be because there are fewer social safety nets for men and men are sometimes unaware of or are unable to access resources because of implicit or explicit bias (WIC = Women Infants and Children, VAWA = Violence Against Women Act).

Men are sometimes included, but would they know it? We know men have been turned away from DV resources that have been mandated to help them. Would feminists support using inclusively language for these programs? Why do I suspect that inclusive language would not be necessary in these instances for the not included to realize they can seek help or for the providers to realize they are required to provide it?

[–]andejoh 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

he problem is that the percentage isn't going to change weather there are 100 deaths or 10000000.

Exactly. That was the response I gave a feminist when I pointed out that feminists didn't care about the incarceration gap and he said that he contributes to the innocence project. I asked how that addressed the gap since the Innocence Project helps men and women. He didn't have an answer.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I might forgive the misandry a bit if it was at least funny.

[–]alclarkey 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You could have all those things, the stronger unions, the saftey laws, and what have you, men will still be 93% of workplace fatalities.

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Unless the institutions address their anti-male sexism. I wonder why Ampersand didn't have his feminist suggest that option?

[–]bklee83 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It wouldn't matter because women simply don't go for jobs that are dangerous. When was the last time you saw a female lumberjack or Alaskan crabbers or sewage worker?

[–]spy9911 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

despite all the advantages modern women have they still insist they are victims.

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been told by various feminists that asking to close this gap is hatred of women since that would mean more dead women.

Instead we should accept the status quo until such point as technology makes workplace injuries a thing of the past.

Also I would be interested in seeing a country with stronger unions and worker protections that has resulted in a closing of this gap.

Somehow men's issues are always "well actually" something else: racism, homophobia, classism, capitalism, etc.

[–]DavidByron2 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Btw the girl in the cartoon appears to be his self-portrait as a girl.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wingsoffire/images/f/f5/BarryDeutsch.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171027061853

[–]TheRenegadePervert 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Reminds me of that classic meta-comic of "I'm a calm and rational cartoonist talking to a stupid and loud strawman".

[–]NaramSuenGHOW 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The majority of 'sane' women know, that today's feminism is bogus. The problem is, they are more than happy to continue exploiting the benevolence of men. Either be actively discriminating in your conduct or just GYOW. Tranquillity cannot wait!

[–]mwobuddy 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The majority of 'sane' women know, that today's feminism is bogus. The problem is, they are more than happy to continue exploiting the benevolence of men. Either be actively discriminating in your conduct or just GYOW. Tranquillity cannot wait!

It seems like its at least 1 in 10 who are wholly into toxic feminism when I meet people. Then again, I do live in a terribly socialist state.

[–]paracog 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men fought for unions when it was part of their role as provider for their family. Once the family unit was weakened, men stopped fighting as hard, since we're not conditioned to fight just for ourselves.

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah Ampersand (Barry Deutsch) is anti-male, as all feminists are, but at least he tries to formulate some sort of answer to criticism. Apparently he thinks that feminists fight for unions and workplace safety. I've never heard of any doing that and indeed what would they since those issues would tend to help men? Of course the present workplace safety rules have led to the ten to one ratio of deaths so maybe the feminist should be demanding that OSHA examine their regulations for anti-male sexist bias? Yeah I'm sure the feminists are all over that.

What feminists actually do is demand women working safer jobs be paid as much as men in dangerous jobs.

The whole cartoon is really just a long form of "Why should feminists help men? men should help themselves" with the suggestion that MRAs dont really want to help men. This response however admits that feminism is not about sex equality at all, and say it is really only a female lobby, a supremacist movement lobbying more and more for women at the expense of men.

Ampersand hides this argument by making the "feminist" apparently trying to be positive but of course the real feminist movement never does any of those things. No doubt it's because nasty MRAs are shouting at them? But of course if the fantasy of feminism being a good movement working for equality were true they would hardly need to wait around for mean MRAs to prompt them to attend to men's issues, nor would the billion dollar movement be paralysed in carrying out this good work because of mean MRAs who just want to shout on-line.

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