https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mtmxrg/why_is_supporting_mens_rights_viewed_as_redpill/
“Because equality isn't a goal of feminism.”
“if you mention the word "Equalism" to a person self-labeling a feminist you get shamed into daring to not abide to the tenets of female supremacy”
“In my opinion it seems like some people believe that attacking "men" in general. Is a way for women to get "power". Which is very ugly and just evil.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mtvpm8/what_the_hell/
“Men have built literally everything you currently take for granted.”
“These people are fucking insane.”
“They really are. They're sick.”
“"the system has failed us", "the world is horrible", blah blah blah blah. Who do they think built this world and or system? Wasn't a lot of women wearing hard hats made out of leather smashing almost molten bolts into thousands of pounds of steel hundreds of feet in the air to make a building. They act like this world is the most awful thing that's ever existed but fail to recognize that right at this very moment there isn't a single predator stalking them for food.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mtotm8/im_tired_of_men_slowly_becoming_second_class/
“Some people are so entitled. And I doubt the women behind you even cared. The woman in front of you was probably one of those toxic “kill all men” feminists”
“Feminism might just be worse than sexism in general, at least right now.”
“I think it's mainly because of the media pumping toxic femininity to people for years that it became the normal thing now. Kids grew up with shows where girls are portrayed as smart, succesful, arrogant and valuable while boys portrayed as dirty, silly, noisy expendable beings that do everything for a pretty face. Girl hitting a boy offered as a funny, acceptable thing etc.
Females are the main customers. System is targeting them and forcing them to keep looking good. They need to keep consuming and spend money to look good. Because world they designed is easier if you are attractive female.
Men are only there to feed the machine, their sexual desires are taken advantaged of so only few of them can stop and realize how wrong things are.
Only way this would change is if more and more men awake and stop feeding the machine so system can't profit from pumping toxic feminism anymore. Sadly it'll keep getting worse for men as long as toxic feminism is profitable.”
“Only 10% of men are considered "desirable" to women, this is an instinct. Everybody outside this is second-class, not dissimilar to infertile worker ants. The rest 90% of undesirable men go unmarried doing dangerous, dirty jobs, wars, etc.”
A browse through mensrights reveals a subreddit that constantly bashes feminism and constantly generalizes women as being self-centered. It’s a misogynistic hate subreddit
[–]randomasshole2478 223 points224 points225 points (8 children) | Copy Link
That sub is nothing more than smooth brained insanity
[–]Anonymous_wastaken 65 points66 points67 points (7 children) | Copy Link
Smooth like a new born
[–]AdikaHUN0328 30 points31 points32 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Cha cha real smooth
[–]King-Zahi2438 12 points13 points14 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Slide to the left
[–]willbeonekenobi 6 points7 points8 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Slide to the right
[–]TheSarosCycle 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Take it back now yall
[–]Jakeybaby125 6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Right foot let's go
[–]Greedyfr00b 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Left foot let's stomp
[–]TwiggyFriend 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Cha cha real smooth
[–]throwawayincelacc 193 points194 points195 points (20 children) | Copy Link
Oh man, if you value your sanity don't read the comments. They're suggesting men shouldn't use cars because women invented the windshield wiper, because that's clearly the most important part of the car. It's a perfect analogy for feminism. Feminists do one little thing and expect the world in return.
As automod said, don't brigade, it will just actually make this sub look bad and breaching reddit rules.
But yea, that thread is toxic feminism.
They just take out of context replies, ignore the actual arguments being made by men. There's so many long winded, well researched and cited comments about how there's actual inequality against men but the poster ignores all of them.
[–]SweatyAdvance 65 points66 points67 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Which isn't even true, the patent was filed by a man much earlier:
One of the earliest recorded patents for the windscreen wiper is by George J. Capewell of Hartford Connecticut, which was filed on August 6, 1896.[1] His invention was for an automated, motorised, wiper for "cars, locomotives, and such land-vehicles".
Other early designs for the windscreen wiper are credited to Polish concert pianist Józef Hofmann, and Mills Munitions, Birmingham who also claimed to have been the first to patent windscreen wipers in England. At least three inventors patented windscreen cleaning devices at around the same time in 1903; Mary Anderson), Robert Douglass, and John Apjohn. In April 1911, a patent for windscreen wipers was registered by Sloan & Lloyd Barnes, patent agents of Liverpool, England, for Gladstone Adams of Whitley Bay.
[–]__pulsar 49 points50 points51 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Her entire list is bullshit.
[–][deleted] 46 points47 points48 points (1 child) | Copy Link
This entire mindset is insane. Let’s say a woman invented every part of every car. What does that have to do with ANYTHING! Why does that mean women get to drive cars and men don’t? Every other woman isn’t THAT woman. There’s no relationship AT ALL. The idea of a kinship with your gender in that way is hallucinatory. Why not prevent everyone besides the inventor from driving cars? The concept is so stupid.
[–]Greedyfr00b 17 points18 points19 points (0 children) | Copy Link
It's showing their hypocrisy because Feminists say they'll stop using men made inventions.. we never unironically claimed the same thing, they're basically attacking a strawman, but that's completely normal for that hate sub
[–]Derp_Man3 37 points38 points39 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I like the one of the comments said “...(white) men...” implying that black people cant be MRA
[–]bob-object 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah wtf. She’s creating a strawnman by claiming we are white supremacists. I’m actually involved with the MRM because of black men having it 10x worse than black woman, but they get 1/4 the attention from activists because of toxic feminism. I would say there’s a higher percentage of racist feminists than racist men’s rights activists given the widespread nature of feminism. Let’s not forgot the downpour of hatred towards asian men from white woman. As a white man I’ve seen asian hate throughout my life from at least %60 of white woman. Tell how I’M the racist???
[–]Zafkeil 21 points22 points23 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Damn I was banned for asking "going by your logic you should leave the country, no?".
[–]PhilsMeatHammer 8 points9 points10 points (2 children) | Copy Link
They ban everyone who doesn't suck up to them. Their mod Bardfinn is a total cuck
[–]GivePuppiesBazookas 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
My ban is for a single word: how.
Not even kidding. I was banned from twox when someone said something along the lines of "feminism is working on that for men too". I literally just asked how, because in 20 years I have never gotten a single answer.
Shit is absolutely amazing honestly.
Feminism does nothing more than teach women to take exceptional offense to everything from men. I mean hell, just look at this post, apparently “Because equality isn't a goal of feminism.” is hateful. Like what the actual fuck? Maybe if they didn't ban and filter what their users see people who don't subscribe to feminism might not think it's not about equality. Really hard to have equality when you reject the other side coming to the table so often.
[–]hoiblobvis 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
next they are gonna do men shouldn't be alive bc a woman was at x point in x point of time
[–]Jepekula 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
As idiotic as the sub is, I don't think that the statement
is true. From what i saw, they just said "haha men rule shit and they say misogyny doesn't exist, btw women invented windshield wipers", which, while also fucking dumb, isn't the same as "suggesting men shouldn't use cars".
E: Nevermind, I somehow managed to completely miss the last sentence of their comment, which was "If you hate women so much stop using computers, wifi, and cars."
Bloody hell, what an idiot.
[–]AJtheW 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't worry I can't brigade it. Got banned for suggesting that "super straight" wasn't transphobic.
[–]84lies 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
What is brigading?
[–]Qualanqui 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
If everyone that read this thread then went and downvoted the linked thread that would be brigading.
[+][deleted] -12 points-11 points-10 points (2 children) | Copy Link
That’s not what that comment was saying though, it was saying “if x hates women so much, then don’t use x”. They didn’t say all men.
[–]throwawayincelacc 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
You are correct, but at the same time it's still a silly statement. For one single component, they suggest that man shouldn't use a car. Feminism is a hatred for what men build, so why are they using a car when men built and designed 99.99% of it?
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
They are against - "the Patriarchy" - Dant Dant DAAAAA!!! thunder clapping - lightning flashing
So why do they support it by living here, paying taxes and annoying men by talking to them? Seems they should just form their own half-assed commune where they all live with cats and "invent" a variety of cutting edge cat related technologies. /s
[–]My_G_Zaha 42 points43 points44 points (13 children) | Copy Link
If you use academic articles patriarchy is proven false
[–]googitygig 12 points13 points14 points (12 children) | Copy Link
I agree that the patriarchy is bs but do you have sources for this? Would really help when debating feminists in future.
[–]Beljuril-home 9 points10 points11 points (8 children) | Copy Link
One of the central tenets of feminism is that first world nations are inherently misogynistic / biased against women.
Here is a rebuttal to that hypothesis, complete with an abundance of sources.
https://quillette.com/2020/07/27/the-myth-of-pervasive-misogyny/
[–]rebelprincess47 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
"ThE lEfT's CatEcHisM oF vIcTiMhOod"
Americans and their fuckin politics everywhere...
[–]googitygig 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't like that line either, it seems unnecessary and it's definitely an opinion rather than a fact. There was certainly no need to make it a left/right issue.
However, read through the rest of it. There are some excellent points made backed up by actual scientific journal articles.
[–]Beljuril-home 2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
I don't understand your response to my comment. Would it be possible for you to elaborate?
[–]rebelprincess47 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
The patriarchy bs isn't an american political issue, its not about left or right, no matter how the american left or right acts around or about the subject.
Im sure any non-american is tired of hearing about that loud-ass country.
And very often when those politics are added to the subject they bring their polarising attitude of "them vs us" in the subject which is psychological pollution imo.
[–]Beljuril-home 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
All too true, sadly.
I say "sadly" because I believe humans are genetically wired to be "us vs. them". You are right to guard against and gainsay such proclivities.
Thanks for the elaboration.
[–]rebelprincess47 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
My pleasure!
[–]Beljuril-home 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
As a fellow resident of a commonwealth country (i saw that polarising "s") I wish that were the case. Sadly my co-workers cannot get enough of american celebrities and culture.
Maybe I'm just bitter because I am unable to participate in their water-cooler discussions of "The Bachelor"...
[–]rebelprincess47 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
They are entertaining, i'll give em that.
[–]GivePuppiesBazookas 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Literally the dictionary.
Patriarchy requires two parts. A system where men hold the power AND the exclusion of women.
"a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it."
Men hold power, but no where near close to all of it, and women are absolutely not excluded. We have a fucking female VP and almost had a female POTUS, that is so very far from excluding. There is not a single rule or law on the books that excludes women, not one.
[–]googitygig 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
The dictionary is not an academic source though.
But you make a good point, like legally there is nothing stopping a woman from becoming president. I think the issue is that many people wouldn't vote for someone because they're a woman so historically they never stood a chance. But nowadays, if a suitable candidate emerged who's a woman I don't think people would have a problem.
Edit: Also, there are still many systems of government where women actually bare excluded. But none really in western society.
[–]grillinmachine 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
"Suitable candidate" is something we just can't seem to ever get, regardless of sex/gender. But 100%, give me a suitable candidate and I will vote for them without any care nor concern of their sex/gender.
[–]DEADMEAT15 46 points47 points48 points (1 child) | Copy Link
"It's a misogynistic hate subreddit."
...right. And what would you classify FDS as?
[–]Greedyfr00b 20 points21 points22 points (0 children) | Copy Link
They would probably classify it as a safe haven for women to "fReeLy criTiCize" men, when we're not allowed to even criticize an ideology, let alone an entire gender
[+]ACG_Wander32 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Feminism is rotten. If you identify as a feminist, you either dont know enough about it, or ypu are ignorant.
[–]StarZax 15 points16 points17 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Or you know, and you are a real piece of shit. Tho most aren't at that level, but there are too many.
[–]GivePuppiesBazookas 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Irony of it, I took a ton of gender studies courses (sociology B.S.) and I am fairly confident most of the people who profess taking women's studies never have. Women's studies definitly goes down the road of all the horrible shit women have done. For example, you have to be an absolute fucking idiot to buy into "men started all wars", one of the first fucking things you go over in women's studies is god damned fucking Isabella I of Castile literally trying to kill the entire world. You know, the woman who gave Christopher 3 ships.
They teach this stuff in women's studies, they go over Battle of TOGS, women fucking up prohibition, Joan of Arc, Cleopatra and on and on. They absolutely tell you about some of the worst and best women in history. But man, odd how all these gender studies folks never even heard of Isabelle (which we were all taught in like 2nd grade for crying out loud)
No one who knows a lick about history would accept the overwhelming majority of talking points feminists blurt out, most of them are painfully inaccurate. Take women's suffrage, (https://time.com/5879346/19th-amendment-facts-myths/) Women in fact COULD vote before 1920, they didn't want to. In fact the Women's Christian Temperance Union (WCTU) picked the primary winners, 100% women. And they kept picking men until the Susan Salter joke turned practical. And you can even see in point 3 of this Time article, a lot of women didn't even want the right to vote. But man, you listen to the average internet feminist, they don't know any of that. They just go with all women wanted to vote, men were stopping them, so men bad. And it's wildly untrue.
I can not express enough, if you can take some gender studies classes, it actually arms you much more against feminism than arms you for it. There is sooooooo much history feminists continently skip over, some of it is even insanely positive too.
But hell, me providing a source, a solid source in TIME, is probably "hate". I don't even know anymore.
[+]pomegranate201269 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
AHS are literal pedophiles.
They are the most insane, loony left, all-kids-should-be-trans-by-default, rape is a result of white supremacism, abolish gender, introduce new genders, burn Wallstreet, no white people with dreadlocks, ban computer games that don't have Marxist characters, JK Rowling kills trans kids, free abortions for vegans, batshit insane people you could ever hope to come across at a safe distance on the internet.
On their discord, they openly share information on how to spread child pornography on groups that don't align with the above philosophy to have them closed down.
They also work as Reddit admins.
[–]DevOwner 17 points18 points19 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Since possession or facilitation of child porn is a crime....hopefully it’s a matter of time before these “people” get nailed.
[–]StarZax 12 points13 points14 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Is there any proof for the « how to spread CP » on discord ? Cuz this one is one hella of an accusation. Just need to be sure when it's related to CP honestly.
[–]forum8231 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
They’ve done it in the past to get other subreddits shut down. I can’t recall which ones because I’ve only learned about it recently, but maybe someone else can elaborate.
[–]StarZax 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh yeah, shit. If that's true then ... I just miss the words to describe that. Imagine managing a sub made to « callout hate » and using CP as « weapons », that's actually disgusting. I can't understand how a human being could do that and think they are on the good side.
[–]pomegranate2012 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
It's not really an accusation that I can back up with hard evidence. Because, if I had evidence, then I would probably have committed a crime.
There's a video on YouTube of an ex-AHS moderator talking about this stuff that I believe is genuine.
I'm not an expert, I don't really want people reaching out to me about this stuff, or to have to look into it deeply myself.
I just know it's bad.
If you think the feminism subs are bad, AHS is literally on-an-FBI-watchlist bad.
[–]StarZax 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah sure I wasn't expecting you to know A LOT about that. I mean, I surely would want to distance myself from that, tho I just wanted to be sure if those accusations were serious. Some people already answered to me and yeah, it seems that it's definitely serious. No need to dig deeper.
[–]TigPlaze 30 points31 points32 points (0 children) | Copy Link
They've made feminism as hateful as possible with hate speech like "mansplaining", "male tears," "toxic masculinity," and the worst "kill all men." Then if anyone objects, they make accusations that those objections are hateful. That's right out of the demagogue's playbook to accuse your opposition of that for which you are guilty.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The level of intellectual rigor there is "anything that disagrees with me=hate" it seems.
[+]InvincibleV6 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
And since when should this sub take the neckbeards of AHS seriously? AHS is an "anti hate" community, the members of which nuke subs they don't like with CP to take them down. Because I am sure everyone keeps a folder of CP in their PC just in case.
-But officer you don't understand. I don't really watch CP, I just use it to take down the fascists.
[–]camelry42 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
If that’s true, they need to be reported to the FBI. It’s a very serious crime.
[–]matrixislife 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
It's AHS, don't worry about it, that's where people go when they've completely lost touch with reality.
[–]UltimaterializerX 23 points24 points25 points (3 children) | Copy Link
For the unaware, that sub is not an “anti hate” sub; it’s far left extremism, right down to supporting child porn.
The same child porn they post on other subs under alts to try getting them banned, just FYI.
[–]StarZax 9 points10 points11 points (2 children) | Copy Link
What's up with the CP thing ?? I've seen the accusation twice now. Didn't heard of this sub before but I just had to click to understand what they mean by « hate ». But the CP thing ? Is there any proof ?
[–]UltimaterializerX 13 points14 points15 points (0 children) | Copy Link
https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchRedditDie/comments/ja2eem/ahs_lowkey_confirms_their_pedophilia/
Follow the rabbit hole from there.
The point isn’t even those idiots brigading with child porn under alts, which is bad enough — it’s them having CP in the first place.
[–]camelry42 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
If that’s true, they need to be reported to the FBI. It’s a very serious crime.
[–]Aleximo27 11 points12 points13 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Oh god we have AHS on us know, this sub is likely gonna get taken down
When they find a sub they don’t like, sometimes they spam post CP on the sub so Reddit shuts it down, it’s bad
[–]Jakeybaby125 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
They've had us on their radar for a while. They do fuck all anyway. They're currently focusing on getting PCM banned and they're failing miserably
[–]GivePuppiesBazookas 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I honestly don't get it, how is saying feminism is wrong, harmful etc hate speech when female subs are advocating killing men and censoring anyone with a different opinion? Even the dumb shit this person points to, how the fuck is that hateful?
Kill all men = fine
Feminism is counter productive = hate speech
Makes total fucking sense
[–]windows_n_cheese 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The first example they give was posted by a woman lol
[–]PoorTwink 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
We should band together and advocate that subreddit to be banned. I'm not usually the one to jump to such things but Jesus fucking Christ. What they do is genuinely filthy, their subreddit does nothing besides spreading hatred. All there is, is pointing out subreddits and pointing out how bad they are, you cannot argue against the post. You literally cannot, that's A RULE, and it's seen as "derailing a post" and will get you banned. They have no place on this website and that subreddit is the most hateful one of all.
[–]TwiggyFriend 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah what’s up with that rule of: You can’t disagree with us
[–]bludragon355 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
"When your idea cannot survive on it's merit you must silence the opposition"
It's been done time and agian on Twitter and Tumblr, where you can block and get people banned for the crime of wrong think.
[–]DerpDerper909 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The war has already begun
Alright boys we are comin in hot
[–]realmtraveller 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Quite accurate and generally true. The truth hurts some women.
[–]cappa2 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
feminism is sexism and bigotry!! Stop segregating people by sex, skin color, religion, etc. We are all people!! Stop treating certain types of people differently just because they look different. Stop giving people rights and separate treatment just because of their appearance!! Everyone should have the exact same rights and opportunities as everyone else.
[–]thatgirlanya 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh my god they used one of my comments! I’m honored.
[–]olsoninoslo 13 points14 points15 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Its not bad to reflect on some of the quotes from this post. They are directly quoting from this sub... I think we all could do better to simply not have in group/ out group biases, but refute ideas. Often when someone says “group X are/is Y”, we all know its false because its neglecting variance within the group. Not all women think men are patriarchal POS’ and obviously, some do. But the issue, imo, isn’t the person who thinks that way, the issue is the idea, and we can change ideas by attacking people. We can only change ideas by acknowledging said person’s humanity and simply arguing their ideas/ beliefs. If they stoop to cheep shots and we refrain, we win the audience. If they acknowledge our humanity and refute our ideas, progress is made. Thanks for reading.
Tl;dr - we ought to be more inclined to support one another to take the high road, or the high road will take us.
[–]StarZax 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
The thing is, the core idea of feminism is the existence of patriarchy and that absolutely all males benefit from it, which is untrue, therefore it doesn't really matter if a feminist doesn't think we are not all POS, she still think that we are privileged for no reason.
So I guess we can't really be THAT wrong if we say that all feminists are wrong and this idea is bullshit, because the core foundation isn't accurate.
Tho of course, we shouldn't really say that all feminists are POS. I think most of them are just being manipulated and don't know better. To a lot of people, feminism = equality in an exclusive way. Meaning that MRAs think that feminism is bs, then it must means that they are sexists POS. Most of them just don't know much about the movement, think it's just about equality, and are forced into such a mindset that'll say « if you don't understand, then don't try. It's just how things needs to be, trust us », if you go even more radicalized it can go to a sectarian level and it gets scary af. They are into a mindset where they are modeled into not thinking for themselves and not trying to understand the point of view of men because they are seen as disposable, irrelevant.
+ combine that with some of the men who are such into women, that they think they owe them protection, women are fragile, they love them so much etc .... they'll just do whatever women want then.
We just need to have more empathy. I am willing to understand what womens get through, of course. But they need to do the same. The distance from A to B = the distance from B to A. I already done that before back I considered myself a feminist tho I couldn't understand why they were so outraged when some men decided to talk about their own problems. How is that equality ? Why feminists do not want to meet halfway just like I did when I wanted to know more about equality problematics ?
So far, they just don't want to be truly equal. We don't matter to them. Idk what we should do about that tho.
[–]olsoninoslo 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you for your reply, i know this is a hard subject to talk about.
My post isnt limited in describing conflicts between any particular groups, but rather its about appealing to by standers watching the dispute, which is where i see the real victories for any movement. I honestly dont know enough about feminism and its myriad forms to refute your claim about its core philosophy, but i’ll accept it for the purpose of this discussion. Further, i appreciated that you didn’t group “feminist” into one bucket.
To elaborate on my previous post... When I clicked the link, and read the comments supposedly copy and pasted from this sub, they were upsetting to me. Mainly because when I read them, there was quite a bit of vitriol in them... especially further comments from this sub in the comments section or the other post. Now, im not saying that this sub is only those comments. It is not, but when a sub like againsthatesubs calls you out, i think its good to at least listen to their claim and do some self reflection. They do some pretty good work over there and are not the “feminist” of againstmensrights. They are by standers, and we are loosing them because of our perceived hatred of women rather than our love and support for one another. The simple question I asking here is, go look at the top post of all time on mensrights, and then read the comments. Do you see a group that is fighting against women, making large assumptions about women and playing the role of victim or a group fighting for a healthy view of what it means to be a man and how to actualize this is ones own life?
Now I have no authority here, Im not an expertise on the matter or this sub, as i dont spend a lot of time here, but i am aware of the movement at large and think that there is a need for more cultural awareness of the harm being done to men by minimizing mens issues today. I also think any way you slice the pie of humanity, the groups you divide everyone up into are having issues (like except for billionaires by thats an other post entirely). That being said, I think its perfectly alright to advocate for men when you see so many struggling with meaning, purpose, and a lack community right now. Its irrefutable that there are a lot of suicides due to loneliness among men, a lot of “undesired” men are very frustrated with there lack of acceptance by women and a lot of them have good hearts and are maybe miss guided/ have unhealthy outlets for there emotions. Its true men catch shit from mainstream culture bc of what dudes 100 years ago did, but we have to acknowledge that dudes today still rape many more women than women rape men. Men commit more violent crime, etc. Simply put, we have issues today we must acknowledge. That all being said, rather than bonding around a mutual annoyance and/or anger towards feminist and the lack of fairness in our society, I think that if men bonded around a shared love for our fellow human, developing a healthy sense of what it means to be a man based on principles like acceptance, personal responsibility, community based ethics and hard work, we might be on a path that really goes somewhere to helping a lot of people. Just imagine what a group of guys supporting one another on being fit, emotionally available and community minded might be able to accomplish together. When we hear about someone having a hard time we be there for them. Not because we dislike what feminist are saying about us, but because we dont want to see the injustice letting a person rot in loneliness for the simple fact that they were born a male...
All the while “feminist” as we’ve described can be rallying against men. What do we do in response you might ask? I will leave you with a quote from one of the greatest men to ever fight for rights might recommend we do...
I've seen too much hate to want to hate, myself, and every time I see it, I say to myself, hate is too great a burden to bear. Somehow we must be able to stand up against our most bitter opponents and say: We shall match your capacity to inflict suffering by our capacity to endure suffering. We will meet your physical force with soul force. Do to us what you will and we will still love you.... But be assured that we'll wear you down by our capacity to suffer, and one day we will win our freedom. We will not only win freedom for ourselves; we will appeal to your heart and conscience that we will win you in the process, and our victory will be a double victory. Martin Luther King Jr., A Christmas Sermon for Peace on Dec 24, 1967 US black civil rights leader & clergyman (1929 - 1968)
(Note - I am not equating mens issues today with blacks’ issues of the civil rights era. I am simply advocating for the method in which MLK prescribed, namely, we do not hate our opponents)
[–]StarZax 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The accusations I have heard about the sub that accuses us are quite ... disturbing. That being said, I also don't think it's totally irrelevant to think about the question "why are they calling us out? Is it really worth the cost to give them reasons to challenge us? "
The fact is, I think they will always find something to argue about, something worth attacking us and the cause for. That said, it's true that this doesn't mean we can say anything and not think about our external image.
It's true that I hadn't thought about the image we might reflect. You are absolutely correct in reminding everyone of this. But it will be impossible to control all the words that are said, obviously. I've also seen a few posts on this sub and other subs related to men's rights that were quite misogynistic, most people obviously seem to disagree with them. I think it's safe to say that the majority of people here don't want to lead the fight specifically against women. That's something that also needs to be better reflected in the image that we have out there.
To be honest, I had a slight problem with the name. The fact that the name is "men's rights activist" can give the impression that people who declare themselves MRAs are macho, virilist, hardcore masculinists who want to be superior to women, as you can see in the biggest movie clichés for example. Which is obviously far from the truth, you just have to scratch the surface and show a little intellectual honesty to understand it.
Some feminists on YouTube gave me an opinion that I was a little concerned about, they were talking about how movements like the MRA were only there in opposition to feminism and in the end didn't offer much more than feminism. I think this is an issue that needs to be thought about.
In my opinion, it is impossible to appear credible to "strangers" if you are just in opposition. You also have to be able to propose alternatives, to be able to participate in the discussion in an active way. I'm not involved enough in the fight for men's rights to know if all that is already done, but I think that is the image that is being reflected at the moment and that is something that we can all benefit from if it changes.
If the feminists want to tarnish our image, we can't let them do nothing. It's also up to us to make people understand that equality between men and women is not exclusive to feminism. The goal is the same but we don't agree with the way of thinking or the way of doing it, already there we will be able to try to make people understand our rhetoric more easily since we will have got rid of the image of the extremist anti-women machist which will have blocked a lot of people who otherwise would have just said to themselves "they are jerks, I don't need to waste my time to listen to what they have to say".
When you talk about caring in the virtual/physical spaces of support between men, it's something that I find very relevant and resonates with me. After learning a bit more about these issues, it's something I've been thinking about internally. Not directing my anger only at women etc... In my heart of hearts, I know that's not the case. But your post made me realize that in fact, virtually ... I'm actually doing just that. I mean, I'm not ranting anti-women either, but I mean I'm in opposition and in anger and that's not a healthy thing.
The problem is that I'm thinking about a subreddit like TheRedPill for example, which is directly described as very controversial, radical etc... I wanted to check it out to see what it was like and I did a little research on what people thought about it on the internet. I read an article in the Guardian that contained an interview with an admin or the founder, I don't really know but that's not the most important.
Basically, the sub was created because there was no space for men to talk to each other about their problems, to support each other etc... So they left a bit of everything. That's what fascinated me about the sub, but also what disgusted me: as much as there can be real supportive content between men, there can also be real dirty stuff, clearly anti-women and misogynistic and quite extreme. So I wouldn't put all the people who frequent the sub in the same basket, but we can't afford to have a similar image.
It was surely a good intention, and maybe it was even necessary to have a gathering of all the words between men, but maybe it's time now to have a much healthier space, much more focused on the support between men and that would specifically help not to direct our anger against women and on the contrary, to try to make them understand what we have to say and together go further.
In any case, thank you for your extremely relevant post, it allowed me to think about the thing and to see it from a different angle.
Sorry if there are mistakes too, I used Deepl to translate from French to English and there are surely some typos, I hope it won't ruin the understanding of my post.
[–]googitygig 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Agree completely. While this sub doesn't deserve the hate it gets from the linked post, we can definitely do better at calling out misogynistic stuff when it arises.
We need to be better than them if we want to see real progress.
[–]olsoninoslo 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I really appreciate you Brother, thanks for taking the time to read my post
[–]DaftV 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
A long ass comment with quotes where dudes say how bad men have it, and how it's getting worse for us and the OP ends with "this attitude shows how they bash feminism and call us self centered". Doesn't get more narrow minded than that.
[–]actuallyalampi 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I mean I don't want to deny that there are a few assholes on this sub, who are really just bashing, but still I wouldn't call it a "hate subreddit"
[–]Charmingaxelotl 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Disregard anything from that sub. They’re lunatics.
[–]GivePuppiesBazookas 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I like how they say you guys "rant" here when this sub is probably top 5% for linking the source.
Also kind of ironic, they think banning men left and right for what subs they go to is fine and then really wonder why men are just like "can you please JUST listen?" and hold the opinion feminism is anti male. I mean fuck me man, if you don't let people speak the hell do you even expect? They are not going to love you, I can tell you that.
[–]scarcieth 6 points7 points8 points (4 children) | Copy Link
I thought feminists were aware of the dangers of 3rd wave feminism. We aren't saying all feminism is bad llol
[–]StarZax 4 points5 points6 points (3 children) | Copy Link
They aren't.
It's not even a surprise tbf, they didn't waited for the 3rd wave to have some misandrists turds as leaders and figures. They had those right when it began. Just check the pinned threads on antifeminism sub.
[–]scarcieth 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Antifeminist subreddit sounds awesome
[–]StarZax 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
It really is :)
[–]Greedyfr00b 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm in it and can concur, it is
[–]StanleyMitchel 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I commented on that post talking about the recent French journalist/Feminist talking about how much she loves misandry. I just saw the rule as to not go to that post and comment. So I had to delete it. I really wanted to highlight the importance of this subreddit.
[–]BreezyEasy1 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
They do have a point. This sub is weak at time and does make generalizations but most people here are too afraid to admit it. We are not a hate subreddit in general, but there have been a number of hateful comments.
[+]Lice138 -32 points-31 points-30 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Yes and?
[–]Anonymous_wastaken 18 points19 points20 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Someone: you committed a massacre
u/Lice138: yes and?
[–]Lice138 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminists are rotten and they only care about themselves. And yes, this will get worse for men
[–]TerribleModsrHere420 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
It's a bunch of blah blah "" blah "blah" men are pigs!
!!"you hear that men! We created shit to.. windshield wipers n shit!
[–]DrxBananaxSquid 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The only thing I commented was "r/lostredditors apparently." since the whole post revolves around a subreddit which is the opposite of hateful, but I got permanently banned by a moderator for it lmao. The comment doesn't even come off as a negative.
[–]AmazingAdminAnus 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The amount of authoritarianism, censorship, and group-think taking place on reddit is indicative of a national security threat.
Don't be surprised when libertarians and anarchists go full Hitler on these people.