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[–]Dutch_Tuna 47 points48 points49 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
More of these charts please! Very interesting to see the numbers in this graphical way.
[–]SouperPants 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Its called an infographic, there quite nice when done well like this.
[–]Lurker_IV 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/search?q=infographic&restrict_sr=on
[–]EeeeeeevilMan 19 points20 points21 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is a great graph but someone badly needs to change all the green in that image to pink.
We instinctively associate pink with female and it would make it so much easier to understand the graph at a glance.
[–]eadala 24 points25 points26 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Did you just assume that pie chart's gender?
[–]PIG_CUNT 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
And they should have rearranged the pie charts in order of greatest % of each gender. The order would be:
Men: Pet. Eng., Aero. Eng., Math/Comp. Sci., Pharma.
Women: Early Education, Social Work, Human Services, Psych, Theology
And.... those pie charts could be explained away by sexism. "Women are kept out of those fields! Nurrr!"
What would work better would be to show % of applicants of each gender, for each of those college degree programs. Show that women tend to choose to apply to degree programs for lower-paying jobs.
[–]Rias-senpai 41 points42 points43 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
While I don't think it's wrong I'd like to see some sources. It's not looking very credible to add a bunch of numbers and say: "Explain this".
[–][deleted] 48 points49 points50 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is an excellent article from Christina Hoff Sommers http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/
[–]blfire 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes such a infographic needs sources on the bottom.
[–]PIG_CUNT 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Great point.
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 9 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
If the wage gap were real, than wouldn't any head honcho business exec be a fool to not fire all of their male employees to hire all female ones? That's saving a whopping 23% in salary expenses
[+]Im_why_Waldos_hiding points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Because all companies are in business for the thrill of being sexist pigs, not to make money.
[–]abattlescar 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I asked that to someone with a gender studies degree, they were speechless and said, "Because companies see men as the income center of a family." Yeah right.
[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
A lot of offices have mostly women in them.
[–]HerbertRTarlekJr 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How can we attack this sexist practice?
[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Work outdoors and enjoy the natural light and fresh air.
Let the women breath the air duct air and have their sleep cycles messed up by the fluorescent lighting.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
No. You have to factor on maternity in your scenario.
Better to pay a man .23 cents more because he'll work longer hours and won't disappear for 6 months to have a baby.
[–]TheTurtleBear 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Except they don't pay men more, that's the point
There are circumstances in which men tend to get paid more for the same job:
He is willing to work different hours than women tend to. For example, in a law firm, making himself available during regular working hours M-F is valuable to the boss(es). For this, he may be compensated more, and/or may get promoted more, than a woman who has prioritized a more flexible schedule (come in late, leave early, work on her own time and turn in her work during the evening) so she can care for children.
So when comparing same job to same job, yes, in many cases men do get paid more, and for fair reason. It's not about discrimination; it's about the worker's own choices.
But when comparing same job to same job, performed during the same clock hours the data shows that men are not paid more per hour.
[–]feedmecarrots 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A good job and well done!
[–]silverhand21 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
This is trying to do too much. It needs to focus on the original issue. The wage gap. It needs to a dress only where the .77 to 1.0 came from and why it is flawed. Then give citations. citationsWithout citations it means nothing. Stop trying to do so much.
[–]PIG_CUNT 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
Agreed. The 9x mortality rate distracts from the issue because it has nothing to do with getting paid the same amount.
[–]silverhand21 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol yeah I was on my phone and it corrects how it likes.
[–]Incident-Pit 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Presumably there is an effect from the mortality rate of a given vocation on overall compensation therein. Its just another component that explains the overarching 77¢ figure.
[–]PIG_CUNT 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Exactly my point: you're justifying why men get paid more per hour for being men, because of the mortality rate. That's not correct.
ANYone who works any job - dangerous or not - will make the same amount of money as anyone else working the same job, if they work during the same working hours, and have the same amount of experience.
[–]Incident-Pit 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Nah, it's talking about the gestalt figure of all men and women's wages. The fact that more men's than women's jobs are more dangerous affects that gestalt figure. In that conceptual framework it's very useful information.
The poster isn't dealing with individuals on a per hour basis because the claim isn't about individuals on a per hour basis at all.
[–]PIG_CUNT 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Presumption doesn't work when trying to convince someone who thinks the opposite.
And clouding the issue by trying to paint the entire picture all at once is like chasing two rabbits at once, and catching none.
Even though the chart tries to do too much at once, if one did want to show difference in pay as related to job danger, then hard data is needed: a comparison of the most common and most dangerous majority-male jobs, the percentage of men who work that job, the mortality rate, and the pay. Same for typically women's jobs: the most common AND most dangerous jobs mostly worked by women, percentage of women in that job, mortality rate, and the pay.
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But muh wage gap. Women deserve more pay for just having a vagina you oppressing bastard. But they shouldn't be doing dangerous jobs either.
[–]furchfur 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Print it off and put up around colleges
[–]mrmensplights 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If you're talking to someone and the wage gap comes up just say "Did you know that seventy seven cents on the dollar thing is aggregate all women vs all men?". If they don't respond with "They controlled for no variables? I guess we can't draw any meaningful conclusions from that then." you should just walk away.
[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
And men have to pay for dates and alimony and child support.
[–]PIG_CUNT 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Men don't have to pay for dates. And doing so generally sets up the framework that your value is in providing, not in just giving her your time and attention.
Women have to pay for alimony and child support if the Diso Master formula (which is not discretionary; it's simple math) says so. That is based on earnings over the last 3 years, not gender.
[–]Incident-Pit 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
In California maybe (presumably, it's the only state mentioned after a quick search on the formula). Not everyone lives there.
One of my mates worked for the UK child support agency a few years ago who did the calculations that even if you literally had childcare responsibilities split 50/50 you would still be on the hook for 400+ a month. That was on a £20,000 yearly wage and it was calculated before tax! Wild.
That is insane. Wow.
[–]Electroverted 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
Irrelevant info, the most important thing that debunks the wage gap is that they lump all professions into the data, so a female fast food employee's earnings is being compared to a male brain surgeon's earnings.
Edit: Downvotes are fine, but what about talking to me about this? I want you to tell me why you think all those stats are relevant when the biggest flaw of the wage gap study is that it compares coffee shop workers to Wall Street workers.
[–]PIG_CUNT 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's lame that you got downvoted. What you said is correct and is supported by hard data.
[–]Lord_Smork 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That's the point of the graph.
[–]Electroverted 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Please tell me where in that graph it says that the earnings of the highest paid specializations are in the same data pool as the least paid?
You're correct: That 77 or 78 cent number is derived from lumping together not just all women vs. all men, but also all women's earnings per year, regardless of amount of hours worked (if any) for pay.
[–]riseofazrael 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
An infographic without sources is worthless.
Agreed
[–]ExpendableOne 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It would also be kind of nice to see the spending gap added also added to these numbers to show an even bigger disparity.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ok but petroleum engineers being paid more than kindergarten teachers is sexist, patriarchal, and misogynistic.
[–]PIG_CUNT 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, petroleum companies have a long history of exclusionary hiring practices to keep all those hordes of women petroleum engineers out.
Seriously, though, the funny (read: sad) thing is, "everybody" wants to complain about teachers getting underpaid. It's easy to get people on board to complain without action.
Where is the action to raise the salaries of Early Childhood Educators? Or all teachers?
I don't see anybody opening their wallets and saying "I'll contribute X per month in my local, State, and Federal taxes."
Everybody wants teachers to get paid more but everybody wants someone else to pay for it, "Not me."
[–]SEND-YOUR-TITS-HERE 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Or simply "if the wage gap is real, then why aren't profit driven companies only hiring women and making mad bank from paying much less in wages?"
[–]PIG_CUNT 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
NOOOO, that is NOT the way to go. That's a question, not a fact. It's easy to respond to a question like that, with "Because discrimination" or worse, "If there's no discrimination then why do women get paid less?"
Facts are needed to show "They don't, and here is how and why this is."
[–]MelkorHimself 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Facts don't matter to those who refuse to yield to them.
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[–]Dutch_Tuna 47 points48 points49 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]SouperPants 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lurker_IV 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]EeeeeeevilMan 19 points20 points21 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]eadala 24 points25 points26 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rias-senpai 41 points42 points43 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 48 points49 points50 points
(0 children) | Copy Link
[–]blfire 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[+]Im_why_Waldos_hiding points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Because all companies are in business for the thrill of being sexist pigs, not to make money.
[–]abattlescar 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]HerbertRTarlekJr 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheTurtleBear 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]feedmecarrots 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]silverhand21 4 points5 points6 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]silverhand21 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Incident-Pit 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Incident-Pit 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]furchfur 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mrmensplights 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Incident-Pit 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Electroverted 5 points6 points7 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lord_Smork 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Electroverted 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]riseofazrael 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ExpendableOne 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SEND-YOUR-TITS-HERE 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]PIG_CUNT 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MelkorHimself 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link