Thoughts on the Male/Paper Abortion?

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2022-02-15T11:18:02+00:00

This is a copy-paste of another of my comments on this subject

I am pro-choice... For both men and women...

I think, we should treat paper abortion, the same as real abortion.. And fetus and baby, as separate entities..
(The legal difference between a baby's rights vs fetal rights is what allows abortion ti be legal but infanticide is not)

I am not in favor of men abandoning his kids. I personally think, men should be allowed to 'abandon' 'fetus' the same way women are allowed to 'abort fetus'... That is up to 24-28 weeks, depending on jurisdiction

May be men can be given 2-4 weeks less to allow the woman time to consider abortion once she knows that the father will not be there in kid's life.

This way, the man gets his choice, and woman gets her choice. If she decides to continue the pregnancy, its also her choice.

I think that's fair to both.

Also, at any point if DNA test comes negative, the non-biological father should be able to revoke paternity and child support immediately. (He may be given a choice to stay, but final decision should be the man's)..

(Note: This won't apply in adoptions. Only in case of married people or if birth certificate was signed under deception)

This way both genders get to maintain their choices..

Practical-Rip6471 · 2022-02-15T11:31:56+00:00

Someone here has posted that paper abortions would lead to more single mothers, this is not the case. It would lead to less, as the overwhelming motivation for becoming a single mother is to place some sort of financial burden on the father, this will ensure ongoing tension and drama in her life as well as financially punishing the man. Remove her financial reward for bad behavior, you'll get less of it.

But saying this, there should only be one paper abortion in his lifetime. This should also go hand in hand with mandatory DNA testing of all newborns.

emerald_engineer_08 · 2022-02-15T12:34:55+00:00

Why is this not already a thing?

This seems soooooooo intuitive to me.

TAPriceCTR · 2022-02-15T13:27:50+00:00

As with all things in more concerned with consistency than my position. If women can choose after sex not to be a mother then men can choose after sex not to be a father. If women must provide for the child their choice to have sex created then so to must men.

To be frank, "paper abortion" is just a term to inflame. I prefer "voluntary paternal surrender" and as long as fetucide is legal, so should VPS be.

whatisaweirdquestion · 2022-02-15T10:15:40+00:00

Here’s my take which isn’t on the poll

If she wants to keep the kid and you don’t before the birth you should inform her that and if she still wants to keep it then you should not be forced to pay child support, but that comes with 0 visitation and no custody at all and you cant go to court for custody.

But all that before the birth of the kid but that comes with the question “what if she doesn’t tell you” they would have to make a rule/law for that.

Obviously mine is really complicated but if you don’t want the kid and she does you should be able to “take off”

There’s no shame in not being ready or being financially stable to be a father.

WeEatBabies · 2022-02-15T14:14:47+00:00

Should be legalized even after birth, women have access to safe surrenders laws and they can drop babies at the firefighter's house or churches.

Men should get the equivalent, on paper or otherwise!

Cool-Studio1841 · 2022-02-15T14:13:54+00:00

Ppl really think ut shd'nt be restricted when the couple is married ?? If u do why?

nevermock · 2022-02-15T16:49:38+00:00

What about when the mother spends the money on her own welfare?

Ok_Stress_4977 · 2022-02-18T08:54:51+00:00

As long as a woman has the right to opt out, he should too.

Practical-Rip6471 · 2022-02-15T11:47:02+00:00

I don't agree with ANY of the voting options. What if the mother doesn't inform you of her pregnancy till well after the child is born? What if you suspect or know the child isn't yours? These make it essential that there be an option for a paper abortion after the birth.

But, discussions of consent apps, paper abortions, DNA testing, use of polygraph in sex assault cases, the common thread? Women's innate dishonesty and malevolence. It now take technology to find the truth, or to dissuade dishonesty. What a world we now live in.

TrilIias · 2022-02-15T14:32:42+00:00

I think it's better to call it "legal paternal surrender," as Karen calls it because it isn't equivalent to abortion, so left wing people will raise objections on those grounds and right wing people will object to anything that sounds like some form of abortion.

Karen is pro-choice, but I'm pro-life. My ideal arrangement isn't represented in this poll. I think abortion should be illegal, I said so in the last poll. Therefore, the father should have some responsibility, but men should have equivalent rights and responsibilities to women.

Even if abortion becomes illegal, and it may soon, women won't be stuck with 18 years of parenthood against their wills. Safe haven laws and adoption are very much a thing. Abortion is not the only way for women to legally opt out of parenthood. Right now, there are no legal options for men to opt out of parenthood if the mother wants him to be financially responsible, or even if she doesn't in some cases. Men shouldn't be stuck with 18 years of parenthood, but they should have some financial responsibility for the medical bills for the pregnancy. After that, both parents should have an opt out option.

LaInquisitore · 2022-02-15T14:44:29+00:00

I think that it very much depends on the circumstances. And a man's character.

blrfn231 · 2022-02-15T18:14:48+00:00

I’m not getting it. Men already have the freedom to just walk away (leave the woman) with zero consequences. There is no legal obligation to stay with the woman and care for the child unless you’re married.

Am I wrong? Or what am I not getting?

welcometothejl · 2022-02-15T12:49:18+00:00

I think we should treat pregnancy and childbirth as separate. When two people have sex, they are implicitly agreeing to the possibility of a pregnancy, but because of medical advances and legalized abortion, they aren't necessarily agreeing to childbirth.

So if a couple gets pregnant and they don't want the baby, a man should be 100% responsible for the cost of an abortion because a woman is 100% physically responsible. If he holds his end of the bargain and offers to pay, he is effectively putting in a good faith effort, and should the mother decide to change her mind, he is no longer responsible for expenses after the birth of the baby.

EnvironmentalWar4627 · 2022-02-15T10:19:31+00:00

Paper abortion would lead to many more single moms in society that require government support. This would be expensive.

Rockbottom503 · 2022-02-15T12:13:05+00:00

I'm surprised there is no option for 'legalised but restricted to births outside of marriage'. That would make a lot more sense.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2022-02-15T17:09:10+00:00

I just had an idea so I’ll throw it out there.

What about creating a legal document that both could sign before the pregnancy happens saying they are both trying to start a family or have another kid? Any pregnancies that occurred after it was signed but before either revoked it would then be bound to follow through. No abortion without something life threatening. No getting out of child support. Unless both change their mind.

Obviously no one is going to do that for one night stands or similar.

If the document isn’t in place then the default would be that both parents have to opt in after the pregnancy otherwise either can unilaterally bow out. If she doesn’t tell him until the kid is born, it’s the same. When he finds out he has to opt in. The default is no.

Women get very emotionally attached to a fetus and even more if she gives birth, which is why so many that try to give the baby up for adoption change their mind. The proposed document would give her the information before any of those emotions kick in as to whether the guy is committed to being a dad and if not, she knows she is powerless to force him to be one.

CawlinAlcarz · 2022-02-15T20:28:50+00:00

I voted that it should be legalized at any stage before birth, but what I really want is for it to be legal at any stage before birth that abortion is also legal.

mrprez180 · 2022-02-16T03:15:21+00:00

The timeframe of legal paper abortion should be determined by states in that it should be identical to the timeframe in which a woman is allowed to terminate her pregnancy.

JosephsonAdam · 2022-05-03T17:11:10+00:00

Up until recently, I leaned against the male right to a paper abortion out of a concern for how it could be abused. Having given it more thought, I suppose it could be a good idea under certain conditions to make abuse more difficult.

I present the following as a hypothetical model.

Here in Canada, I can legally consent to sex starting at the age of sixteen and, biologically, most boys can impregnate a woman once they reach the age of twelve.

Add to that that female sexual abuse of boys and men is far more common than is generally acknowledged:

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/coerced-sex

So imagine a Right-to-Self-Exclusion Act that would allow me to apply for a free passport starting at the age of fifteen along with access to a free online passport account.

Starting at the age of fifteen, I could sign into my passport account to self-exclude, for five years autorenewable, from the freedom to give my consent to fornication under threat of a heavy fine that doubles for each repetition of the offence. I'd be locked in to the five-year self-exclusion period but could opt out of the autorenew at any time.

However, the Right-to-Self-Exclusion Act would grant the following benefits to any man who chooses to self-exclude:

The freedom to obtain a paper abortion.

Making it an offence, punishable by a heavy fine that doubles for each repetition of the offense, for any person to encourage, beyond merely giving her enthusiastic consent to, a self-excluded man to give his consent to fornication, as that would constitute incitement to commit a self-exclusion offense.

If a woman want to encourage, beyond merely giving her enthusiastic consent to, a man to give his consent to fornication, the onus would be on her to confirm his status. He could confirm his status to her by simply signing into his online passport account to send her an official email confirming his status.

Protection from rape-shield laws and a right to an inquisitorial hearing on request.

Since it would be linked to his passport, he might even enjoy this right abroad too depending on international agreements.

Since incitement to commit a self-exclusion offense would be much easier to prove than sexual assault, it would therefore provide a more effective deterrent against it. While the above would grant a man a right to a paper abortion, it would also provide more effective deterrents against him raping a woman and against a woman sexually assaulting him.

Title	Thoughts on the Male/Paper Abortion?
Author	----Poseidon---
Upvotes	22
Comments	45
Date	February 15, 2022 10:08 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/sszpjs/thoughts_on_the_malepaper_abortion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/thoughts-on-the-malepaper-abortion.1102207 https://theredarchive.com/post/1102207

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