Have your core values changed?

taiboworks · 2015-09-20T18:51:05+00:00

Do any of you red pillers have a different identification to the options below before red pill than what you do now? If so, what was your old identification?...

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

I think you're little system of three options is probably fatally flawed.

I would say every humans stance is always option D

D. my wellbeing is more important to me than the wellbeing of almost all the others in the world, equal to a much smaller set, and for a very tiny set I put their well being above mine.

I'm pretty sure that anyone that has kids has people in all three categories.

Everyone does it the same way, even the most compassionate other do not donate all of their wages to save hundreds in the 3rd world.

RP hasn't changed the way I do that. Maybe others grew or contracted their "three circles". But mine have always been roughly drawn where they are.

I can see by their behaviour that almost every human does it the same way, with bigger or smaller circles. The exceptions being the truly saintly and the sociopath.

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[–]iGotXans 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

not if they are busy working to improve the world. it's hard to be depressed when you are doing something about what you care about.

And who the fuck is doing that? Only person I can think of is Bill Gates. So unless you become a billionaire you ain't doing shit.

this is you hamstering your selfishness.

Nonsense, it is backed up by science and common sense. Look at this for example. And have you never heard the phrase "one death is a tragedy, a thousand deaths is statistic"? You need to feel a personal connection to an individual to actually care.

like most red pillers

I'm not a red piller.

own it

Oh I do. I openly admitted to you just yesterday I am more Machevellian than average. But I think most people are certainly just as selfish as me. I look out for close friends and family, otherwise I put myself first. That is what the vast majority of people do.

[–]taiboworksrational idealism > toxic egoism[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

And who the fuck is doing that? Only person I can think of is Bill Gates. So unless you become a billionaire you ain't doing shit.

lots of people who work in non profits, social services, in teaching, etc.. determining someone's consideration for others is about their relative effort to help based on the ability. just because someone's not a billionaire doesn't mean they are not living a considerate, beneficial life for others.

I openly admitted to you just yesterday I am more Machevellian than average.

i wouldn't say statements on reddit count as openly admitting anything.

But I think most people are certainly just as selfish as me.

are people all the same height, weight, iq as you too? in any case, i thankfully can say that most people are not just as selfish as you (some are even worse), most are better, and some are too selfless, masochistic.

I look out for close friends and family, otherwise I put myself first

would you sacrifice your life for any of them?

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[–]taiboworksrational idealism > toxic egoism[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

D. my wellbeing is more important to me than the wellbeing of almost all the others in the world, equal to a much smaller set, and for a very tiny set I put their well being above mine.

i think you are making the mistake of assuming other people share your views (mindblindness / poor theory of mind). why would anyone give to charity if you were right? how does it benefit D types to give money to strangers? also, is it red pill to put the wellbeing of a wife over their own? or even kids?

even the most compassionate other do not donate all of their wages to save hundreds in the 3rd world.

any educated westerner working in the third world in an aid capacity is basically doing this.

I can see by their behaviour that almost every human does it the same way, with bigger or smaller circles. The exceptions being the truly saintly and the sociopath.

if you see how the political parties in the US operate, there must be a lot of people for helping the poor and a lot against as reflected in the different republican, democratic views on the topic.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

i think you are making the mistake of assuming other people share your views (mindblindness / poor theory of mind). why would anyone give to charity if you were right? how does it benefit D types to give money to strangers? also, is it red pill to put the wellbeing of a wife over their own? or even kids?

Giving to charity is fine, I give money to charity. I assume most people do. That's not putting others wellbeing before my own, that's letting some crumbs fall from my first world table to feed a few in the 3rd world.

I am putting a tiny, unnoticed, impact to my wellbeing provide enormous leaps in wellbeing to others.

But I do not put those others wellbeing before my own, if I did I could spent 2-5-10-50 times as much.

I save that for me, and for my family.

any educated westerner working in the third world in an aid capacity is basically doing this.

Yes, I'd say that any westerner that devotes their life to this, and ploughs their income straight back into supporting their efforts is one of the "saintly few" who could claim A.

if you see how the political parties in the US operate, there must be a lot of people for helping the poor and a lot against as reflected in the different republican, democratic views on the topic.

Why ? I'd vote democratic in the U.S. in lieu of an even further left option.

I'm not against helping the working class. Why would I be ? I was working class, and my family have been working class, and a lot of my friends remain working class. Seeing as I've done well I regularly vote for parties that would raise my personal taxes. But I believe I and my family are benefitting by the better, more stable, society that is provided.

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

No. I've decided that it's more important to me that their wellbeing is assured than my own.

Frankly, my genes are pulling my strings with the kids. All those millennia of differential replication means we've got a whole suite of human instincts that kick in for those high value heirs.

That don't mean I hold them up as gods little perfect Angels. I think they can do no wrong. That the sun shines out of their little butts.

They can be terrible little assholes frankly. Small kids can be little fucking sociopaths. My two year olds current method for "getting his big sister to hand over the toy" is to hit her with a train.

So, yeah, I think you can do that without putting people on a pedestal.

Is that how you do it ? All those starving Africans you are funnelling every cent of disposable income too ? You think the sun shines out of their butts ? Or that they are just humans too ?

So, of course putting others first doesn't necessarily mean you pedastalize. Although if you pedastalize, you do put them first.

It's an all Labradors are dogs, but not all dogs are Labradors thing.

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Even the more socialist countries you speak of are still capitalist, they just have more state run services. I live in the UK which is one of those countries. I can tell you it doesn't guarantee a happy living. Most of the population are miserable bastards.

What you need to keep in mind is that the capitalist economy needs to be successful in order to feed back into state services. Without a successful capitalist economy state services will suffer because state services rely on tax revenues from the private sector to function. Without that they just build up a massive debt. That's why Greece is bankrupt but Germany is not. One of those countries has a strong export based economy that can support all these wonderful state services, the other not to much.

That said I don't want to defend America either, I find American politics to be strange with all its roots in old fashioned conservative Christianity, and I don't get how any first world nation still doesn't have universal healthcare.

I will say though, the higher rate of killing in America is nothing to do with capitalism, it's because of the US's ridiculous "gun culture." Of course you sell guns like chocolate and tell everyone it's their human right to own a gun (wtf?) then people will end up killing each other. What the fuck else do you think will happen?

I like Hong Kong though. They have a very capitalist economy, very low tax rates and very few taxes, but no safety nets. The system encourages everyone to either get a job or start a business. Their economy has done a lot better than ours over the past decade, although with China on a slump Hong Kong might see some after effects of that now. Still a much more successful country than the UK or indeed the vast majority of the EU regardless.

Here's a good documentary on more socialist countries vs. more capitalist ones if you're interested. It's focused on the budget deficit in the UK but it talks about other countries (including Germany and Hong Kong) too.

[–]taiboworksrational idealism > toxic egoism[S] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (35 children) | Copy Link

[–]iGotXans -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

and society needs to be happy, healthy enough that they don't revolt.

A high employment rate is key to this. And you need a thriving capitalist economy to ensure that.

it has it's place along side socialist policies.

I agree to an extent. Like I said in my previous comment, I think it's ridiculous America has no universal healthcare. I think that's pretty much a requirement for any first world nation.

However outside of essential services like healthcare, I think the state should keep their nose out as much as possible. I also don't necessarily think the state should run the healthcare as they do here in the UK. Personally I am more in favour of the German system where the actual healthcare service is still run by private companies, but the government will pay for your insurance if you earn below a certain amount. This provides the benefits you get from free market efficiency while also making sure everyone has healthcare.

I say that because a massive problem with state services, and I've experienced this many times myself with the NHS, is that they are inefficient and bloated. The simple fact is that when a private company is inefficient it will fail and go bankrupt, but when a state service is inefficient it just keeps sucking up more money, particularly on useless bureaucrats. It also encourages health issues to become tangled up in political issues which I don't feel is right.

even if you hate other people, the reality is you have to deal with them and their problems if you want a functional state/society.

This is exactly what I said in your 48 Laws of Power thread. As you've put it here, you have to deal with people and their problems even if you don't care for them. That's why the 48 Laws can be so useful.

you can't just ignore social issues, pretend a society can exist without addressing social problems.

What social issues are you referring to?

[–]taiboworksrational idealism > toxic egoism[S] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

The simple fact is that when a private company is inefficient it will fail and go bankrupt

not if it's too big to fail apparently. unregulated markets don't work so government needs to be at least big enough, independent enough, to regulate markets / business. i'm not against private companies providing social services if that's what is most efficient, but they have to be regulated by someone, which means government needs to be big enough to do that as well.

This is exactly what I said in your 48 Laws of Power thread. As you've put it here, you have to deal with people and their problems even if you don't care for them. That's why the 48 Laws can be so useful.

the 48 laws of power is how to take advantage of people. that is not what i meant by 'deal with people'. dealing with people is very simple, look out for their best interests (along with your own) and you and others you will thrive together. take advantage of others and you might benefit in the short run, but you will hurt others and yourself in the long run. selfish types don't survive tit for tat simulations because people punish them for being inconsiderate.

What social issues are you referring to?

any problems a member/members of society face are potential social issues - drug addiction, learning disabilities, physiological health, etc..

[–]iGotXans1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

not if it's too big to fail apparently.

Lol if you're referring to the 2008 credit crunch multiple massive financial institutions went bankrupt because of that.

unregulated markets don't work so government needs to be at least big enough, independent enough, to regulate markets / business.

There needs to be a level of regulation, but only enough to ensure fair competition and lack of corruption and collusion.

dealing with people is very simple, look out for their best interests (along with your own) and you and others you will thrive together.

Can I have some of your E pills? Sounds like you got some good shit. They the imported Dutch ones?

any problems a member/members of society face are potential social issues - drug addiction, learning disabilities, physiological health, etc..

Most of this comes under healthcare then, so we agree on that. Education is another essential service I think the government should at least ensure everyone has access to.

[–]taiboworks0 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]iGotXans1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

have you always found the idea of considering the interests of others (and that being beneficial to you and others) a foreign concept?

I answered this already here.

TL;DR: generally speaking I put myself first, but I make exceptions to this for close friends and family as needed. As for people who aren't close friends or family, I don't really give a shit about them. I think this is 100% normal.

were your parents similarly wired?

I dunno really. I assume everyone is to be honest, so yeah.

if you benefit at the cost of others/society, how is that sustainable for civilization?

What do you mean "at the cost of others"? You could argue any business owner is simply profiting from the labour of others, and indeed communists argue exactly that. But a business that employs a lot of people is still beneficial for society because it's providing those people with a means of living.

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are you saying you are not judgemental?

Compared to most people no I am not judgemental. I don't think saying most people are selfish is judgemental at all because I don't consider selfishness to be a negative trait like you seem to. You are the one judging people for being selfish, not me!

But most of my friends are drug users and escorts and some have done way worse than that. Most people are very quick to judge these demographics. Me, not at all. And because they are judged negatively by an intolerant society, they do not judge me either. And they're just in general really friendly chilled people. They won't hate on anyone unless that person has done something bad to them. I act the same way, I have no hate against anyone unless they're done something to me. These close friends are the few people who I would actually go out of my way to help even if it would cause issues for myself in some way, because they've done the same for me and I know they'd do it again.

The difference between you and me, though, is I am not naive enough to expect everyone to act like that towards me. The way my close friends treat me is not the same as how any random stranger would treat me. I fully expect a random stranger not to give a single shit about me because that's just realistic.

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Let me explain:

They're mostly cute and sexy

This doesn't require me to like anyone.

fun to hang with

This applies to the people I actually hang out with, i.e. my friends.

They're mostly funny

This is true for a lot of 'em, even the ones I overly dislike, I can admit they tend to be funny.

laid back and fun to hang with

Only applies to friends.

you enjoy hanging out with most people

Nope. I was thinking of your question in terms of the men and women I actually do spend time with already. If you want to know what I think of the general human population, most of them are irritating and I avoid them as much as possible regardless of gender.

how much time do you spend with non close friends?

Not much. Mostly I only see people I'm not as close with at larger social events. If I'm gonna go out and socialise I usually hang with a smaller group containing mostly my close friends.

If you mean outside of a social setting, obviously when I'm working I have to deal with all manner of morons. Such is life.

[–]taiboworks0 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

laid back and fun to hang with Only applies to friends.

but that answer you gave was in response to this question

what do you think of most women? They're mostly cute and sexy and fun to hang with. what do you think of most men? They're mostly funny and laid back and fun to hang with.

you don't think most people are fun (and that was predictable because selfish people tend to dislike most people). you are the person i thought you were, generally (i'm not pretending i know exactly who you are, nor do i want to).

you claim to be non judgmental, but really you just don't like people judging you or your friends even though you are very judgmental of others ("I have to deal with all manner of morons"). you are sensitive about yourself and insensitive about others, this is typical of narcissists.

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then you gauge it. the reaction of others is the cost, what you get is the benefit, which weighs more. then how do you decrease their backlash, or of course the best is you actually make them think that it is to their own benefit what you do.

hurting others is inevitable. 6 people pursue a woman. 1 gets her, 5 gets hurt for failing. do i hurt the 5 or become one of the 5? thats life. its not always about deliberately ruining other people but thats how the world is, in a world of scarcity and limited resources. you cant give everything to everybody and people will get hurt for missing out.

'the wellbeing of others and society' is a complicated thing also.

look at the rise of the types of women we complain about a lot in these debates. who created them and how? think of parents who spoil their kids, is it intention to hurt? no. people act like as long as you 'perceive' you have good intentions then you must be doing it right, coz in your mind youre not hurting anyone directly, youre doing society a good deal...

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Most RP people used to have very, very low self-esteem, so their behavior didn't have much to do with A, B, or C. They could've believed anything internally but were "bullied" by society into situations that were not healthy or fulfilling to them. Whatever was under the hood changed how they felt about their own misfortune, maybe they felt anger and rage if they actually cared about their well-being, or maybe they rationalized it was only right to help other people. But that's not really important, because like I said, they were partaking in behavior that's unhealthy and detrimental.

Either way, they one day went looking for answers and rather than putting in hard work, they took the easy way out by reading a "sidebar" to find their answers.

RP at least tells people not to respect people that don't respect them back, which removes a lot of the situations described in my first paragraph.

[–]Lonny_zone0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

No one lives by A (but when it pertains to their kids). A few more may think they choose B but I see very few people donating their kidney to a stranger, giving blood as often as possible, and living in a studio apartment, when they can afford a house, just to give to charity.

I would bet most people on earth live by C in almost all situations (except again, when it comes to family, or simply minor inconveniences, like letting a person with one item ahead of you when your grocery cart is full, when arguably the avoidance of guilt in that situation disqualifies some of that altruism.)

I doubt you have chosen to Internet at a library to donate the cost of a laptop to charity Taibo. I doubt you have a flip phone so that you can donate the difference saved from foregoing a smartphone to charity.

Get real, option C is human nature.

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Title	Have your core values changed?
Author	taiboworks
Upvotes	1
Comments	129
Date	September 20, 2015 6:51 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3lpen8/have_your_core_values_changed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/have-your-core-values-changed.279496 https://theredarchive.com/post/279496

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