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I think he said he was trying to establish a point, any point, that both red and blue can agree on to move forward from.

Except for the advice that nice thing gave is kind of the opposite of what most of red pill advocates. I've seen a ton of "don't be honest about other girls" and "don't lie but evade the question" and "if they have any objections to you seeing other women then next the dumb slut", but haven't seen much in the way of "treat your flings and ONS with the respect and courtesy you'd want to be treated with and be honest about the noon exclusive nature of the relationship" that nice thing suggested.

Most people aren't going to argue with "be honest about what you want from a relationship" (whether that be a ONS, fwb or exclusive bf/gf). Most people will say not lying or being an asshole is a good thing. So what nice thing suggested is what blue pill usually recommends when these posts come up - nobody really cares if you just want casual sex as long as your honest about that being all you want with your potential partners.

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I've been reading this sub for a while now. From what I have seen, a lot of people on both sides feel this way. It's just a matter of acknowledging the concept of addiction.

When women AND men have sex and lots of little flings, they get used to those surges of hormones. That can absolutely result in addiction. But hey, if the men and women who partake in that type of lifestyle don't want monogamy at any point in their lives then I see no problem.

I think the problem is that many people (men included) live this fast paced life style and then expect to settle down when they're older. That could potentially cause issues. If I were a women, I wouldn't want to marry a man who has a extensive sexual (or romantic) history with several dozen women. That would be a huge red flag. Ditto the reverse with men/women.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

This is what blue pillers call #biotoofs.

Maybe, though I think they have many valid reasons to mock TRP on those grounds. There's quite a tendency for TRP to overemphasize the genetic component of gender differences, often times without citations to back up their claims. I think that's where the biotruth thing comes from.

And also, given the responses in this thread, you're projecting a view a blue pill that isn't universal. My understanding is that the blue pill ideologically diverse. You wouldn't go on TumblrInAction and expect to see people that all believe exactly the same things, and the same concept applies to blue pill.

EDIT; For the record, I think tumblr in action and the blue pill are really lame. I don't really get either one. I get what they're making fun of, but I don't get why.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

I get what you're saying about the overemphasis. Here are my thoughts.

I don't remember all of the #biotoofs, but I can speak about ones I've personally experienced. A girl that doesn't want to have a kid actually really wanting you to raw dog her and make a kid with her. She got off on that so hard.

I even tested this. I don't remember exactly what I did but it was something along the lines of taking two condoms, putting one on and using it and holding the other one in my hand. It was dark, there is no way that she thought/knew that anything was amiss. I pretended to take the condom off and showed her the 2nd condom (which she thought was the condom I took off). I remember her getting turned on and pulling me in and making me fuck her knowing it was raw dog (when it actually wasn't), and she wasn't on the pill. She made me "cum in her" and looked at me with some literal sparkle in her eye. I have never had a girl look at me like that. Not even gonna fucking lie, it was hot, but I don't want kids.

redpillfanfiction #GLOjobs (for those bpers here for the entertainment)

YouDislikeMyOpinion · 2014-02-11T18:08:50+00:00

We are looking at the comment chain that I permalinked to. This is /u/nicethingyoucanthave's comment, the response to him, and...

Anyways, what conclusion could we take from this. What is the root cause? Who knows. Here's what I do know, if I was some pussy bitch, she wouldn't have done this for me. In other words when you substitute the alpha for the beta, this happens. Sure TRP can overemphasize #biotoofs, but what other thing could it be? Does it even matter to analyze the other possibilities on a practical level?

This would literally be the #biotooth girls want to get pregnant by alphas. I lived this. What else could I possibly attribute it to? What about when most other guys that are in the same position report the exact same phenomenon, what then? We obviously do what is logical and attribute it to being alpha. We aren't idiots. I'm an atheist precisely because I find the evidence to be stacked against theism. Show me the light of how I'm seeing my situation wrong, and I will undoubtedly convert to whatever is right.

Other than these types of bio truths, there are the ones that involve genetic gender differences. It's a combo of nature and nurture. This documentary did a great job exploring the topic: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1vuho8/the_documentary_that_made_scandinavians_cut_all/ The conclusion of course is that it's a combo of nature and nurture.

On your other point. Yes, I agree that bluepillers are diverse.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This would literally be the #biotooth girls want to get pregnant by alphas. I lived this. What else could I possibly attribute it to?

But you're stating it like is a biological fact, when in reality, it hasn't been proven to be so. I think that's where the meme comes from.

What about when most other guys that are in the same position report the exact same phenomenon, what then?

It's still not biology. I think some people might classify that as pseudoscience. It may be true, but the method (?) is not scientific, but you're claiming the results are, so at the very least it's sketchy.

This documentary did a great job exploring the topic: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1vuho8/the_documentary_that_made_scandinavians_cut_all/ The conclusion of course is that it's a combo of nature and nurture.

Exactly, it's a combination. That doesn't mean everything is equally nature and nuture. Some things could be 100 percent nature, and some things could be 100 percent nurture, and some things could be a mixture of the two. To assume the behaviors in question all have an element of nature or biology...that's not a sound assumption.

As much as it pained me, I searched through the blue pill for recent posts with "biotruth" and this is what I found:

First seems like a leggit criticism, but more of a "historytruth"

The second pointed out a really stupid comment on the red pill.

The third references a thread in ask science.

The fourth

The fifth

The sixth references a thread in the red pill that makes a claim that women from the UK are biologically more slutty

I don't know if I've really learned anything. Most of the things they highlighted seems marginally to mostly reasonable.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It's theory, until a better theory comes along, that one will do just fine.

Exactly, it's a combination. That doesn't mean everything is equally nature and nuture. Some things could be 100 percent nature, and some things could be 100 percent nurture, and some things could be a mixture of the two. To assume the behaviors in question all have an element of nature or biology...that's not a sound assumption.

A very limited amount of things can be pure nurture. This can't be undisputedly proven just yet, but you'd be hard pressed to find something that isn't affected by biology in any way.

Now let's take a look at the biotruths.

I never personally argued that women were being married off at 18 or w/e, but I'm not going to argue with actual history. If the average age of marriage was 22 in whatever country at whatever time period, it's futile to argue facts.

The second one is a very broad statement looking to explore the topic of why in evolution, females didn't kill non-blood related offspring. No one is saying that there is a direct link from "woman needs to pass down her own genes" to "woman kills other people's babies". They're saying "hmm, maybe there's some part in biology that plays on this".

The insurance one, I have an in depth understanding of how insurance works, I won't get into all of it, read an insurance book about how it works.

Here is what the underwriter had to say:

premiums for term life insurance are dependent on age, term length, and health rating during application.

While the supposed underwriter is right, he neglects to state the foundational basis for the actuarial accounting behind the risks. And in missing this critical point and distinction, he fails to understand the OP. I highly doubt he's an underwriter with that limited knowledge set of insurance.

Here's an example, if historically it cost the company $1 million per year in claims for men 18-25 from a pool of 1000 men, the risk premium is $1000 per man per year. Let's say that $100,000 of these claims were due to suicides and the other claims accounted for the remaining $900,000. Now let's take a look at the 26-30 age bracket. Since suicides went down, those claims only accounted for $30,000 in claims and since other health issues were on the rise, the other claims rose from $900,000 to $950,000. Total claims were $980,000 reducing the insurance premium from $1000 per man per year to $980. Do you see how that works? This is a really crude example. What was stated in the OP is not a biotruth but a real, literal, studied, phenomenon.

So when you're a certain age, it literally pools you with others that age. If some health risk goes up, you're going to see insurance rates go up. Suicides go up, insurance goes up.

For the peer reviewed study, the last two paragraphs are great. The first was just stating stuff about darwin and evopsych. The real meat is here:

Modern evolutionary thinking has progressed beyond such a simple analysis, in part because evidence from comparative studies of primates questions whether human sex differences originated in sexual selection. The human male-female size difference is low in magnitude compared with other primate species, and species with low dimorphism have a large variety of behavioral patterns and social structures (Plavcan & van Schaik, 1997). In addition, both female and male size are products of multiple selection pressures. Such findings call for more complex evolutionary accounts of humans’ physical and psychological sex differences.

In addition, both female and male size are products of multiple selection pressures. Such findings call for more complex evolutionary accounts of humans’ physical and psychological sex differences.

100% agree, these people know what they're talking about. So what's the problem exactly?

The last one is just saying that british girls are sluts. Nothing said about them being slutty because of their British genes.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

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And many others report not just one as well. It's kind of fucked up.

And many, many others report experiences that are directly contrary to everything you just posted. What do these conflicting experiences mean?

As it turns out, your "experience" is a remarkably bad indicator of "truth". Your mind, desires, and biases play many, many tricks on you. This is why actual areas of study within academia are much more rigorous than TRP.

I've experienced many situations in my life that I thought I understood and read perfectly, only to find out later I was very much mistaken. Everyone does this. Our state of mind affects our perception and our memories. It's incredibly rare for someone to read a situation free of bias.

I draw the same conclusions from that, that you would draw.

Not quite. Assuming your story did happen, and I was in your position, I would have concluded that this girl was crazy. Not that all girls are crazy. But maybe I've just been fortunate enough to date many down-to-earth, intelligent women to not be able to generalize them like that.

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Show me the science. I don't go against it. Seriously, throw me some studies, and I'll read them.

This thread was posted on TRP several weeks ago discussing how women are more likely to stay with sick husbands than husbands are to stay with sick wives. This challenges TRP's notion that honor is a male abstraction that women are generally incapable of exemplifying (at least, to the same degree as men).

Rather than discuss it, it was downvoted to hell and deleted by the mods. The study was posted and discussed here not too long afterwards, so you can read the studies there.

Here's another post on TRP from a few weeks ago linking scientific studies that show no correlation between promiscuity and inability to hold a functioning relationship. This challenges TRP's idea that being a slut "damages" a woman as long term relationship material.

Likewise, rather than discuss it, it was downvoted to hell and deleted by the mods. I unfortunately don't have the studies the user linked because of this.

There was also an incident where a member of TBP thoroughly debunked an article in TRP's sidebar in a sub similar to this one that existed months ago. Rather than discuss it, TRP members all mysteriously disappeared, a thread discussing it on TRP was deleted and the poster banned, and the sub was officially shut down.

That article is still in TRP's sidebar. Something about "Women: the most responsible teenager in the house," or something like that.

These are just a few incidents that I have recorded. Seeing as how I don't spend much time on TRP these days, I can only imagine that there are more studies being censored over there. You seem a bit more interested in consistency than the average "red piller", so I can't help but wonder why you put so much stock in a subreddit that deliberately censors facts.

The last part of your response is very very complicated and I'm actually working on the rational underpinnings, it's just that it has to be comprehensive and account for every logical fallacy so it's taking a lot of time.

I know it is. Good luck - ever since David Hume, there have been many others trying (and arguably, failing) to do the same thing.

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To an extent, you're absolutely right.

It also helps round off one's perspective to know that statistics can be (and often are) used out of context to promote an agenda.

For example:

"75% of car accidents happen to sober people. Therefore, you shouldn't drive sober."

Once again, I'm not saying that you (or TRP ideology in general) were necessarily wrong in that discussion (I couldn't even know for sure, given that the mods nuked it), just that it's an often overlooked point about statistics that should be understood by a group that prides itself as a window to "truth". The fact that TRP moderators deleted a discussion that could at the very least examine this phenomenon suggests, to me, that they probably don't want this pitfall known amongst their followers, or are not at least willing to consider it.

"Red pill" indeed.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinion1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There's nothing wrong with that statistic. The error lies within the interpretation.

The fact that TRP moderators deleted a discussion that could at the very least examine this phenomenon suggests, to me, that they probably don't want this pitfall known amongst their followers, or are not at least willing to consider it.

Have you ever moderated anything. If you have you should understand the decision and its merits. But, for the sake of this discussion I will explain it.

You start off with a community that doesn't undermine scientific data gathering methodology. The community leaves that to science. The community agrees that the science they look at has been tested for using proper methodology that is up to the standards of the scientific community. No one in that community comes there to discuss the merits of the scientific method and its data gathering methodology.

When someone comes in trying to debate this and take the discussion away from the main point (the phone is in the car vs. does the phone exist) it detracts from the discussion.

I hope this makes things more clear.

[–]myfriendscantknowAgent Orangered (BP Man)4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]myfriendscantknowAgent Orangered (BP Man)3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

We probably agree on a ton of things. You would be hard pressed to find someone with whom you agree on absolutely nothing. Hell, most people would consider a few things bandied about on TRP to be sage, common sense wisdom. "Don't put the opposite gender on a pedestal" is something we can all agree on.

This I agree with.

In terms of your second paragraph. /u/nicethingyoucanthave shows a possible strategy that men can take to court women.

The main reason that I have instructed people ITT not to comment on other things is so that we can concentrate on this specific topic, then we can talk about the other stuff in another debate if needed. I've been a part of many debates, and I know that adding the rest of that thread to this debate will throw the comments around and make this debate useless.

The reason for this is because the other comments rely on fundamental differences between red and blue that cannot be debated steadfast(thanks for the word) in one debating session. So we are actually being more productive in this debate by excluding those points of contention.

TRP is a terrible, worthless place and no baseline of agreement will change that.

Many, many people have gotten laid because of trp. It's worth something to them. Hell I'm sure that a couple of people didn't commit suicide because they found the place and it offered them an actual solution beyond "just be yourself" and "wait until the end of time for some princess charming to rescue you from your misery".

[–]myfriendscantknow4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Because the game they ran relied on those specific trp concepts. It's post hoc ergo propter hoc but it doesn't even matter. Who cares about what the real cause is. Add those concepts = laid, don't = not laid. It makes little practical sense to explore it deeper to some kind of existential/psychological/philosophical level.

You said trp is useless. This guy learned hypergamy, specifically aloof/not caring game and WHY it is important (because it shows your high value, and makes the girl think that). Because of this, and specifically his thinking around that specific concept, he ignored this girl and she got on his dick. The way he ran his game was from within the inspection of her hypergamy. In other words he was confident before, and all that crap. They talked and it wasn't escalating, he ran that game and got an instant response.

Not so useless for him is it.

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Women have a much harder time. Much, much harder time.

I would LOVE to see your science behind this!

IMO.

Oh. Just anecdotes and opinions.

Look, I'm glad you have the ability to get whatever you set your mind to accomplished. It's a great skill and I'm happy you've been able to make changes you felt necessary in your life. But it's not solely a male trait, there is no evidence that men can do it easier or better than women (or vice versa) and there are likely a good number of women who can do the exact same thing (I'm not going to make any claims on percentages because I would, frankly, have no idea where to look for a study like that). And there's likely a good portion of the population (male and female) who can't do it period.

But this:

Whatever I put my mind to with 100% effort (it has to be something I choose) gets done.

Is true for most people. If I 100% want to lose weight, it's easy to do. Why? Because I've chosen to do it, 100%. Will I bitch and moan and want all the chocolate along the way? Most definitely. Will I give in or indulge or not meet my goal? No. Why? Because I've dedicated myself 100% to changing. Like my boyfriend and I have been on a diet since October. Do I hate it some days? Yes. Do I want chocolate most days, especially during that time of the month? Oh my fucking god, yes. Have I cheated or otherwise backpedaled on it? Not so far, no. Why? Because I know that even though I may want all the foods that are bad for me, they're bad for me, despite their delicious feminazi lies.

Point is, if I (or many people, male and female) dedicate 100% of my energy and desire to doing something, it's easy to do. The process may be difficult, but since reaching the end desire is the focus, it's easy to ignore the distractions or pain or whatever.

So if a girl or a guy has had multiple romantic partners or short term flings/ONS and then chooses to be in a relationship 100% and that becomes their focus, I'd say they have an equal shot of sticking to the relationship agreement. And so long as their needs are met and they feel satisfied with their choice (aka, they stay at 100% focus), then they probably won't have any issues sticking to it. If they lose focus or the relationship becomes more of a drain than a benefit, then they'll have issues sticking to it.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Azure_phantomBlue Pill2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No science, just on average from personal experience, and what I know from friends and people I respect.

Cool. But that doesn't prove that women have a harder time. It may show that the women you know or you have heard about in your extended circle may have a harder time. But then I'd wonder how often you and your friends are discussing their girlfriends/wives old ONS exploits and think maybe you should get a hobby.

The thing is that it's not always raw willpower. (nature vs nurture) a lot of it is nature.

Then where's your EVIDENCE that women have a harder time of this idea because it's not in their nature (since your original claim was women have a harder time - not individual people of either sex)? Because otherwise, you just made a certified, 100% BS Biotroof. Why? Because you made a claim about 50% of the population that you can't back up. You claim, first, that women have a harder time of forming a bond after having multiple ONS in their youth. I counter that men and women both have may have issues with this. You come back with the setting your mind 100% to something idea, I counter that setting your mind 100% to something and getting it done is true for most people. Now you've come back with something about it not being in someone's nature?

If you want to make the claim that most women you know of or have heard about from friends have difficulties forming a bond, then I won't argue with you on that. But don't try to extrapolate that small, VERY small, sample size of women is representative enough to form a generalization about (since generalizations usually have to be true for at least 50% of the population or it's not a generalization).

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Eh. Every FWB story ever. Some people can handle it, some can't. It's the people who think they can handle it but truly can't that's the problem. Or the people who hope to leverage it into something more and are subsequently disappointed. Some people (not sure if more women than men) believe so hard in their power to transform and rehab these "lost" or "wounded" people (news flash: they're not "lost" or "wounded", they are exactly what they say they are), they enter into this kind of arrangement as a challenge, or this action conforms to their self image. This is a youthful sort of delusion, I think. I still try to think well of people (who have given me reasons to think well of them) but when someone tells me, "I'm mad, bad, and dangerous to know" I believe them and GTFO.

Although, I think one of the TRP mods have answered this kind of questions in the past with recommendations of evasive tactices, such as don't ever have the talk, say it's complicated ... that I find to be deceptive.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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Heh. Me neither. I knew I never could. I ... I was going to have a little fling. Instructions were unclear. Ended up married.

I don't mean to be flippant, but all the things people do when they're having sex, the petting and kissing and hugging and holding and touching, they're all the ways we express affection (if not love) toward someone. You know how they say smile when you feel bad or in pain, the motor response leads the emotional response? I can't see how going through those motions don't lead to an emotional response. Although I take people at their words that they are able to divorce the two, I just can't do it.

Tangentially, there's a pretty decent RomCom called Friends with Benefits with Mila Kunis and Justin Timberlake. Very funny, very snappy dialogue, the two leads have very good chemistry, a fun movie. It came out the same time as another movie with the same theme, No Strings Attached with Natalie Portman and Ashton Kutcher. That movie was a terrible yawnfest.

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[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I permalinked to the comment chain I was referring to. Instead of looking at the comments that I permalinked to, you looked at and critiqued the OP which is not the subject of this question. You looked at the OP for #3, as you clearly said:

Texting someone else in her house while you were in bed with her five minutes earlier is not just the opposite of classy: it's rude and a blatant statement that you don't care about her. Most people I know would take it as an intentional insult.

When the comment by /u/nicethingyoucanthaverom, which is the subject of the discussion clearly said:

When a girl is at my place, I try to stay off my phone, and I expect her to do the same thing. It's annoying.

For #2, /u/nicethingyoucanthave covers it with this:

If you want to see her again, now she'll start having expectations about being the only girl you're dating. A great way to broach the subject is to ask her, not if, but how many other guys she's dating. Then you can be incredulous when she claims to be single.

I usually say something like, "I don't believe that you're not seeing anyone at all, but whatever, you can keep it private if you like - I enjoy going on dates and spending time with different people, so I want let you know about it."

Then you have to deal with the questions. "How many girlfriends?" The answer is, zero. I don't have a girlfriend and I'm really not looking for one. "OK, how many girls?" The answer is, I don't have anyone locked down. I don't have anyone on rotation waiting for me to call. The way it works is, I have some friends and sometimes they're in relationships and I wont see them for months or a year, and sometimes they're single and want to hang out. If I see a concert in town that's country music, I know a great little country girl that would probably have a fun time there. If I see a wine festival, I have a different girl that I know would enjoy that. Neither of those are "my girls" and when they're not hanging with me, I'm sure they're dating their share of dudes.

So I don't see what your point is.

As for #1, there's not much context. If there is some context, please don't say "see below" and instead elaborate on the context so I can understand your point better.

[–]redwhiskeredbubul5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

I permalinked to the comment chain I was referring to. Instead of looking at the comments that I permalinked to, you looked at and critiqued the OP which is not the subject of this question. You looked at the OP for #3, as you clearly said:

Okay, I saw this objection coming, because you neurotically specified 'just look at this isolated piece of evidence, don't look at this other stuff,' which is a dead giveaway that the objectionable stuff was in the other stuff, and, furthermore, that you know it's objectionable.

Anyway, said context is important because the OP is being a huge dick and you're giving him advice on how to be less obviously a dick whilst still remaining one.

And as for the relevant context to #1, it's the content in the OP which you demanded nobody look at. Saying 'you'll sleep better after sex' could be a sincere affectionate statement or a gross ploy. It depends on your other behavior, which in this case involves wandering off to text other people in the middle of the night.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

It's two different people. I wanted to understand what's wrong with one person's strategy, not the others. How is that bad? If one guy says "this is how I drink water" and another guy says "I drink water a different way, this is how I drink it" and we are solely discussing the merits of drinking water in that different way, how is the first guy's method relevant?

OP is being a huge dick and you're giving him advice on how to be less obviously a dick whilst still remaining one.

I never gave OP any advice. I'm not /u/nicethingyoucanthave. I'm /u/youdislikemyopinion. What are you talking about? The discussion is about /u/nicethingyoucanthave's strategy.

Secondly, please show me specifically what /u/nicethingyoucanthave says that is advice on how to be less obviously a dick while still remaining one.

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[–]weirdlemonade81 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Actually, that situation sounds pretty ideal. No one is getting lied to, no one is assuming it's more than it is (although it sounds like both are having a great time). As a woman, where I am right now, I wouldn't mind that set-up at all. I know a lot of people here don't like the idea of FBs but in its ideal form an FB can be a very good thing. The problem of 'feelings' (and this problem is, in my experience in no way applicable to only females) almost always raises its head, and that's usually where any problems start. At that point the person with feelings either denies the feelings in order to keep the relationship going, or decides they can't deal with the feelings/non-exclusivity and ends it (the latter always ends like the former, too, it just takes longer and there's more drama).

[–]shitlordlucyPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]weirdlemonade81 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When I was under 25 it probably wouldn't have worked for me. The thing is, I'm not at all into 1 night stands, nor am I currently extremely interested in getting into another LTR (this isn't to say I wouldn't, just that I'm definitely ok with not being in one right now). I'm also, however, not into celibacy. A good FWB provides a lot of the benefits of an LTR without also requiring the emotional investment and I did have a FB last year that worked really well, up until he decided he loved me and wanted it to be more than it was. (I'm aware I'm talking about this rather coldly, but I did my best to adhere to 'campsite' policy with him and never lied to him about how I felt)

I think a lot of people see FWB situations as beneficial to a man and not a woman and I don't really understand that POV. If both people are honest and up front about what they're looking for and what they're not looking for it's pretty great.

When I'm in a relationship (which necessarily means I'm very into the guy) I'm monogamous by nature - that thing where I don't even see other men happens, so it's not a problem with monogamy, it's more a problem with celibacy when not in a relationship.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points2 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What you're going to find is that the more red pill someone is, the more they understand the world and how it works. You will find minimal conflict in understanding with these people because they have no need for falsities in their own lives. Same goes for bitterness and all that. It naturally subsides and evaporates, until you're left with a dry vagina like the sahara (that's been on my mind since you've said it, I could not resist posting it). (ignore the vagina part of the sentence).

the pros of cheating would have to outweigh the cons of cheating (I would also have to be devoid of a moral center, but let's put that aside).

While I agree that the pros would have to outweigh the cons, I will say that there are times when you can skirt around your moral center. Alcohol certainly helps with this.

I could understand if the scenario was just a better guy who would also commit, coming along and being better than the woman's current partner in every single way

Just to everyone reading this. This is hypergamy, but like the women in /r/redpillwomen, this purple pill woman can subside it to some degree.

The idea of cheating on a committed partner for random sex, ESPECIALLY once you're past the wall seems like a huge illogical self-destructive move. Swinging from one committed partner to another is a dick move, but makes more logical sense.

Gonna agree here.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

The reason that the context is largely irrelevant is because the strategy that /u/nicethingyoucanthave posted is independent from the other things in that thread. Meaning that you could remove his strategy and it would have its merits on its own.

Okay, but that's completely contextual. You don't have to tell somebody you're interested in somebody else also if you're on a first date with them.

I agree with you here. /u/nicethingyoucanthave actually goes into depth to describe the context as you can see here:

I usually say something like, "I don't believe that you're not seeing anyone at all, but whatever, you can keep it private if you like - I enjoy going on dates and spending time with different people, so I want let you know about it."

Then you have to deal with the questions. "How many girlfriends?" The answer is, zero. I don't have a girlfriend and I'm really not looking for one. "OK, how many girls?" The answer is, I don't have anyone locked down. I don't have anyone on rotation waiting for me to call. The way it works is, I have some friends and sometimes they're in relationships and I wont see them for months or a year, and sometimes they're single and want to hang out. If I see a concert in town that's country music, I know a great little country girl that would probably have a fun time there. If I see a wine festival, I have a different girl that I know would enjoy that. Neither of those are "my girls" and when they're not hanging with me, I'm sure they're dating their share of dudes.

That's the deal that I offer them. I've laid all my cards on the table in a really honest way. She can hang out with me as often as she likes, and for as long as she has fun doing so. There are literally no strings attached.

As for the last part of your post, that is another person's response, not /u/nicethingyoucanthave's

I'll offer some in depth about it. It should be commonly agreed that people can do things that will attract their partner. So what he's saying is that if you're not attracting your partner to the point that they don't want to have sex with you, you're doing something wrong. You should be attracting your partner to the point that they want to have sex with you.

This of course carries the implied belief that sex is a good thing, and furthermore that sex is a good thing even if you're tired.

[–]redwhiskeredbubul3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Wait what? Is all this "honesty" before or after sex? It's bad if one person, doesn't matter which, has preconceived notions that since they are not seeing anyone else, the other person is doing the same. I understood him to mean before, so nobody is mislead. The alternative is really a nasty thing to discover, you've just slept with a man/woman, thinking you're going to be exclusive, and then the other shoe drops.

I just want to remind you that real life is messy and things don't follow this simple script. That deal that is offered is only good if 1) she's in the market for it or 2) the best deal she can get. If !1 she's going to GTFO and wondered how she misjudged a person. If !2 she's also going to to GTFO. People look at the incomplete picture all the time. In investment we say high risk high reward and people only see one side of the equation, take on a great amount of risk and the certainty of getting a great reward. People forget that the flip side of high risk is you lose it all.

I have a feeling this story sounds so great, so neat and tidy, TRP are all drinking it in like children with a bedtime story. Just find a girl, be honest, and present her with options and suddenly: FWB with a hot "plate" who doesn't resent you and is grateful and loyal.

Conspiracy theory: /u/nicethingyoucanthave is actually George Clooney. In that case, George, call me. You left the shooting script to Monuments Men at my house.

[–]nicethingyoucanthaveRed Pill Male3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Azure_phantom2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Isn't that the very definition of solipsism? Being unable to see the world from a perspective that doesn't match yours and so having to relate it to yourself instead?

I get it - you have never turned down a girl for sex. Congrats! Your friends tell you they're the same - whether they're telling the truth or lying, I can't say, but let's assume they're telling the truth. Congrats to them! But you and your friends are not a large enough sample size to say how most men are. If you want to qualify that to most men of your acquaintance, sure. But most men as in roughly 3.5 billion people? Nope.

And it's that onion, that guys always want sex and if they don't it's the woman's fault, that makes girls feel bad if their boyfriend or husband turns them down. If we taught that boys and girls have different sex drives as individuals and they are likely turning you down for a reason wholly unconnected to you, then I don't think people would take as much offense to the concept. This would also force people to be adults and confront our discuss bedroom issues related to their partner to their face as the "I have a headache" excuse would mean "I have a headache" and not "oh god, he/she doesn't think I'm sexy anymore and wants to break up!"

Being turned down for sex isn't the end of the world unless your SO is turning you down very frequently. And at that point, it's probably just a mismatch of libidos and not a good relationship fit.

[–]nninja0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think I'm more qualified to talk about how men are than you right? Do you have to get the answer from 3.5B men to accept it? You already acknowledge that men have higher sex drives so I don't know what's the mental block in accepting that most men want sex almost all the time.

I agree people shouldn't feel bad when they get turned down for anything really. I don't. But I'm aware that many women do feel bad about it, maybe since women aren't as used to rejection as men. Is there anything wrong with wanting to make your SO feel desired? Isn't it a nice feeling? Now you're saying I'm encouraging women to feel bad when their man declines sex? Actually the opposite, I say "what's wrong with that guy?". Call me whatever you want but I enjoy pleasing my gf just as I assume she enjoys pleasing me. I've never found it a chore (lol that's laughable) to have sex with her. Would you ever turn down a kiss from your bf? What about a massage? What about a sensual massage with kisses? And if he gets visibly aroused what will you do? Let him sleep with a boner? Maybe I'm too weird or you find me solipsistic or whatever. That's fine, as Napoleon Hill said "All great men had high sex drives" (as long as they harness it) :-)

[–]Azure_phantom2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wouldn't say so, no. You're more qualified to talk about how you are or how your friends or or how guys you know are, but not guys in general.

I don't think guys necessarily have higher sex drives - it is a commonly held belief, I won't deny that, but that's also a source of where guys feel bad about themselves because they think they're supposed to be horny 24/7 but aren't so something must be wrong with them (hint, there usually isn't). And I know I have yet to meet a guy who can match my drive (but my anecdotal evidence is not enough to make gross generalizations). Do guys want sex, yes. Are guys more encouraged to seek sex sans judgment or repercussions? Yes. Does this social sigma of being a slut perhaps make women less verbal about how much they want sex? I'd say that is pretty likely.

But since you keep trying to put words in my mouth and arguing against what you think I'm saying rather than what I'm posting, I don't see much point in continuing this.

And I have turned down my SO for a kiss and for massages. It's not often, but it has happened. And it's not the end of the world if it happens, unless it's on a consistent basis.

But the point still stands that not every guy wants to have sex all the time. And if they turn down a girl for sex, there are a multitude of reasons that have nothing to do with the girl that could be at play.

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]nninja1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No? Lol one of us is more qualified to say how men think. And you're saying it's not me? So you don't believe biology, hormones (namely testosterone) etc. has anything to do with different sex drives? Maybe the fact that I produce thousands of potential offspring everyday and you produce one per month. The fact that I can have hundreds of offspring a year and you can have one. Those facts wouldn't affect our sexual behavior? Shit even male dogs hump legs all year round, female only get horny when they're in heat. But the male is ready to have sex all year round, but they have to wait for the female to be in heat. Why are male dogs so much hornier? Were they raised in a society that makes them feel like they have to be horny all the time or are they just naturally like that? And female dogs shamed into only being horny at certain times of the year? Could there possibly be similarities with humans and other mammals? But wait no, tell me how your male dog isn't horny and doesn't hump your leg to disprove that.

[–]Azure_phantom1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm a responsible pet owner who spays and neuters her pets.

But that aside, yes men produce more testosterone than the average woman. This is not true for all men and all women. A woman's sex drive is not tied to when she's ovulating only (thus your female dog analogy falls apart). Dogs also hump to show dominance and not just for reproduction, otherwise you would have females humping males, males humping males and females humping females. So there goes that part of your example.

But clearly your singular male experience puts every other male and female experience to shame because you can't see past your own nose. You can speak for yourself. You can't speak for all men at all times.

Not all men want to have sex at all times. I don't get why you're getting your knickers in a twist any this fact and bringing up humping dogs (different species with different biological urges) to try to prove that all men are horny 24/7 and would never ever ever ever ever turn down getting laid.

[–]nninja1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Again, I understand we can't alk in absolutes. Notice how I knew you were going to bring up your dog (how did I know you had a dog?) as an example. Yes I'm aware humans are the only animals where women don't go into heat. Does that mean the analogy falls apart? Really? Because of one difference we can't compare ourselves to any other mammal?

The reason male dogs, and all mammals for that matter, are always horny is because the females are the controlling gender for sex, so it's in their best interest to always be horny that way when a female is available for sex he is ready. Could human women also be the controlling gender for sex? Yes actually they say those exact words in Biology 101. Hmm I wonder if that means that men would naturally have higher sex drives? And what I stated about our biological differences, you didn't comment. Do you think they make a difference? The fact I can have hundreds of offspring a year and you can have only one? Any effect on sexual behavior? It's a yes or no question that should be pretty easy to answer.

Who mentioned anything about shame? God yes I know I can't speak for all men all the time. Jeeze talk about a broken record. I'm talking in generalities. Most men, most of the time. I said those exact words hoping you wouldn't pull out the same argument. Ok are we clear I'm not talking about 100% of men 100% of the time? Again, in general, most men most of the time.

[–]Azure_phantom1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

First of all, men always want sex.

Sounds like an absolute to me. Unless you'd like to adjust your initial claim to something like "In general, most men I know want sex all the time" or "In general, many men want sex most of the time".

how did I know you had a dog?

Actually, you were only half right about the dog. I have my boyfriend's female dog. Who is spayed. I've never had a non-neutered male dog, so haven't had to ever deal with the random humping, though I've seen it at the dog park, etc.

And this:

Notice how I knew you were going to bring up your dog

You're the one that brought up dogs. I said I spay and neuter my pets, then moved on the general dog behavior. Not specifically my dog. But good try!

Because of one difference we can't compare ourselves to any other mammal?

I'd say not having a sex drive linked directly to going into heat is a pretty huge difference that does make your analogy fall apart. In most other species, the males of the species can tell when a female is ovulating and can become pregnant (either with going into heat or engorged genitals, etc). The males will rarely to never attempt to mate with a female who isn't displaying signs of ovulation (unless it's a display of dominance which isn't geared to sexual activity anyway). It would be a waste of sperm and energy. Since our desire for sex (as humans) isn't limited to when we can become pregnant, the sex drive is its own beast. There's nothing to really compare it to, except for maybe bonobos and dolphins who also have sex recreationally. There aren't many mammals that exist that have sex for purposes other than reproduction.

Could human women also be the controlling gender for sex?

Not in the same way you're talking about. You're talking about when the female is available for sex = ovulating. For humans, it's more of a women get to choose who and when they have sex because we don't do the whole rape thing anymore. So women are the gatekeepers of sex in the sense that if they don't like you, they won't have sex with you. You being horny or not has zero effect on whether you'll get laid.

Do you think they make a difference? The fact I can have hundreds of offspring a year and you can have only one?

Sure. But it's not a universal effect. And it also doesn't have much impact on general desire for sex since, as I said before, our desire for sex isn't linked to being in heat. Some women may get hornier when they ovulate, but that doesn't mean they aren't horny the rest of the month.

You appear to be conflating "desire for sex"/horniness with ability to become pregnant and don't seem to realize that people have sex drives that don't have much of anything to do with the getting pregnant bit - otherwise girls wouldn't ever get horny except for the few days they could conceive.

God yes I know I can't speak for all men all the time.

Funny - since your original comment did exactly that. For someone who knows this, you sure do seem to forget it awfully quickly.

Ok are we clear I'm not talking about 100% of men 100% of the time?

=/=

First of all, men always want sex.

Nice try though. I'll give you points for creativity with the whole canine heat rant.

But yes, I will agree that, in general, many men want sex most of the time. Which is what I said in the first place (Sometimes guys are too tired from work or too stressed to be aroused or too sore from the gym or have a headache or just don't feel like it because of whatever reason. Kind of the same as girls.)

[–]myfriendscantknowAgent Orangered (BP Man)3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Ugh, and TRP gripes that women play games? For the record, as others have said, I find nothing morally wrong about this behavior; but seriously, how douchey. The entire scenario described in the original post seems so bleak to me. Like cartoonishly, 90s gritty drug movie bleak. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have fun and be happy than callously play on someone's insecurity to get my nut off.

Not to mention, what a very specific set of personality traits it must take for this to work on a woman. She must a) be cool with casual sex and dating around, enough to not be put off when it's put right out there and b) be insecure enough to be worried that you're talking to other woman, even though she's cool with non-commitment. Not only does that sound like a rare combination, it sounds like a fucking nightmare. The women I sleep with wouldn't give a shit about a facebook conversation with another woman, because we aren't committed partners and they sleep with other men too. It's just casual sex, not the weird nebulous gender war TRP seems to be in love with.

I doubt the story is true anyway, it seems like total TRP fap material.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]nicethingyoucanthaveRed Pill Male4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

it's still 100% centered around what they guy wants for himself.

I think you're incredibly naive. People enter sexual relationships precisely because it's what they want for themselves. There is no one (including you) who thinks, "wow, I don't actually want to be in a relationship, but that's just selfish so I'm going to do it anyway."

Of course the things I want are centered on me. Of course. And you know what else, when I go interview for a job, my reasons for doing so are "100% centered around what I want for myself" - specifically, money and experience. Meanwhile, the employer considering hiring me is 100% centered around what he wants for himself - specifically, skill productivity.

Obviously the conduct of the job is a give and take. Sometimes, I work on a project I don't particularly enjoy. But the reason I'm there is because it's what I want. And the reason they hired me is because it's what they want. Obviously.

And obviously, inside a relationship, that's a give and take. I sometimes do things I don't want. Did you just skip over the part about me treating her well and paying for shit?

I think you're either so thoroughly naive that you imagine some altruistic prince charming relationship, or you're not very articulate and that wasn't what you intended to say. Because everything you said is blindingly obvious.

They are going to be different. To be a good person you have to be able to respond differently to different situations.

That's just empty rhetoric. Every person is different. Every situation is different. Every thing is different. That statement isn't helpful in any way and doesn't contradict anything I said. You must think that everyone but you is a complete idiot - you must think that someone is going to read my advice and take it not as a guide but as step-by-step instructions. Literally nobody thinks that way.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Unless you're going to argue that abductive reasoning is not reasoning, you're not going to get very far.

Abductive reasoning takes methodically gathered data and constructs a hypothesis. I'd argue that the data TRP gathers is not "methodical," thus not valid data on which to establish a hypothesis. TRP's data is annecdotal and occasionally cherry-picked. That doesn't mean TRP's observations are wrong, it just means they're neither objectively true nor false.

Making conclusions based on the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation, is indeed method of reasoning.

Yes, however if you're data and observation isn't rigorous, then your conclusions could be imperfect. That's the "short cut" part of logical short cut.

Then it's pretty clear that making a guide for how to interact with 50% of the world's population can indeed be done based in reason.

Right, but it's a Heuristic. Wikipedia defines heuristic as "Heuristic refers to experience-based techniques for problem solving, learning, and discovery that give a solution which is not guaranteed to be optimal." I'd say that's a perfect description of TRP. It's not supposed to be a perfect model of our world, it's supposed to be good enough to improve upon bad sexual strategies. It's not accurately describing 50% of the worlds population, it's ensuring sexual success with a large enough percentage of certain subsets of women to be a relevant and effective strategy.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

It's a solution that is not guaranteed to be optimal, but I'm taking 98% confidence for the time savings of attaining the remaining 2%, that is, if that 2% can even be attained.

If you were honest with yourself, I don't think you'd say 98%. It probably doesn't all that matter than much, but I'd say it's more like 75% in the right bar/club, but could be as low as 10% in the right setting. Some girls just don't go for PUA/game stuff. That said, if you're going after a certain type of girl, then I'm sure it's more than adequate. 75%, or even 50%, or even 33% is pretty damn good. That means if you talk to 3 women, at least one will be receptive. Considering you can easily talk to a dozen women over an hour or two, those are good odds.

But hey, my numbers are as arbitrary as yours. I'm in an LTR, but the girls I've gone after in the past probably wouldn't be suited to TRP's models. I specifically filter out women with the traits that TRP describes, so that probably has something to do with it.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]CFRProflcopter2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinion1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CFRProflcopter2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Finally, someone worth talking to.

I like talking to you. Hmm. Very rare for me. Someone actually on a high level like that. It's nice for a change.

Just one more thing...you have to be careful with statements like this. You're complimenting me, but insulting others. Comments like this are a magnet for bad behavior and escalation. Generally, this can result in strings of reports which the mods have to deal with.

You have to think about this situation in reverse. If someone posted "finally, someone worth talking to" to a red piller, it would tick other red pillers off, likely generating strings of comments that violate our rules and generate reports.

We try to avoid both of these scenarios as much as possible, so keep that in mind as you continue to contribute. We don't want users to feel like they're walking on egg shells, but this shit can escalate at any moment.

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinion0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CFRProflcopter1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinion0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]autowikibot0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Those_Who_RemainIrrelevant Homosexual1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]quickquestionfor0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Please clarify what you mean by saying "main problem". Is it problematic to you personally or is it problematic in terms of "fucking the girl over" as asked by the OP? If its the first one then that is your personal opinion and you are free to that. If it is the second one please explain why you think that is. The guy is being clear and honest and not attempting to mislead or deceive her.

Also I don't understand how it is wrong for someone to only want something for themselves in a non-committed relationship. This is clearly an one night stand scenario or FWB at the most. So sex would the only thing expected by both parties and he clearly is attempting to provide just that. I thought expecting men to be selfless or non-self centered for women was sexist?

As for a "strategy" i don't see that word anywhere in the linked comments. He is however explaining how to not mislead women about a man's intentions to not be in a committed relationship "which he was asked by the middle comment". It just sounds like he has clear expectations and standards for what he wants and is having those wrong to you? I think your argument switched from being about his comments to something else.

The PC language argument at the end was a bit of a stretch. He only said good fucking not that he would give her one or even vice-versa. Additionally its the TRP where PC language isn't the most expected thing

[–]fiat_lux_Red Pillar0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]quickquestionfor2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fiat_lux_Red Pillar0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I guess the main problem is that it's still 100% centered around what they guy wants for himself.

So let's explore exactly what he is self-centered about.

He has a preference for not being in relationships. Is this self-centered? If it is, then is that a bad thing? Would society rather prefer that he go against his preference to not be self-centered?

Please explain to me what exactly is self-centered about what he does and why it is bad.

And that language still makes it seem like sex is something men do to women.

Why is this a bad thing? There are lots of different types of sex. One type of sex is where the man predominantly does most of the work while the girl enjoys it. There is also a type of sex where the woman does whatever she wants with him while he enjoys it. I think that everyone has a right to have sex how they prefer without having to worry about the semantics of language. So what if the guy says that he will give her a good fucking. So what if the girl says that she will give him a good fucking.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

It's not self centered to only want casual sex. And I didn't say it's self centered. I said it's centered around what the guy wants. The script is like "This is what men want. This is how men can get what they want from women". That kind of narrative polarizes the sexes and dehumanizes women. If they gave the exact same advice targeted and both men and women or used gender neutral language, this would not be a problem.

If I wrote "As a woman, this is how I deal with men" I'd be really ashamed of myself because men are not some alien species that need to be dealt with in a specific way. They are humans who I interact with on an individual basis.

Why is this a bad thing?

Because it's a stereotype and it's being used in a particular context. The context being a forum that promotes male aggression and female subservience.

So what if the girl says that she will give him a good fucking.

Why don't you try using language like that on TRP and see how it goes? TRP doesn't want women to be in charge of anything. If the woman is active she is described as "doing the hard work". If the man is active he is described as "fucking the shit out of her" or something along those lines.

Language does matter cause it's our primary means of sharing meaning with each other as humans.

[–]nicethingyoucanthaveRed Pill Male0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nicethingyoucanthaveRed Pill Male0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

alrighty. So let me axe you a hypothetical question:

The day after your wedding (congrats by the way), you're contacted by NASA and asked to join the crew of a giant spaceship being sent to a distant star. You and hubby agree. You join a few other like-minded people. For the purposes of this hypothetical, please assume all these people are completely, 100% in agreement with you on gender and politics. They're basically clones of you.

On the spaceship, you are now completely free of extant human culture - except for any aspects of our culture that you consciously choose to allow.

You and your crewmates have 100 children. 50 are male. 50 are female. When they're placed in a play room containing a mixture of toys including trucks and dolls, which of the following do you think is more likely

(1) more males than females will will play with trucks. More females than males will play with dolls.

(2) There will be no correlation between the sex of the child, and what toys they play with.

(3) Sex, like gender, is just a social construct, so there's no way of knowing how many of the children are male and how many are female.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

and dehumanizes women.

I can see where you're coming from. Do you have a solution?

If they gave the exact same advice targeted and both men and women or used gender neutral language, this would not be a problem.

Assuming PUA advice is result oriented. If gender neutral advice was the best advice, wouldn't it naturally float to the top to be the best PUA advice because it achieves the most results.

If I wrote "As a woman, this is how I deal with men" I'd be really ashamed of myself because men are not some alien species that need to be dealt with in a specific way. They are humans who I interact with on an individual basis.

They are not alien (I'm the only male alien), but nonetheless, they are still different from women.

Because it's a stereotype and it's being used in a particular context. The context being a forum that promotes male aggression and female subservience.

Male aggression is a good thing for me. A side effect is female subservience. I didn't make the world like this, the world came like this to me.

Why don't you try using language like that on TRP and see how it goes? TRP doesn't want women to be in charge of anything. If the woman is active she is described as "doing the hard work". If the man is active he is described as "fucking the shit out of her" or something along those lines.

If some guy wants to get fucked by a girl, that's on him. Bunch of guys probably like that on trp. I'm not one of them. I tried, but I need control after 30 seconds. It's as someone said, everything is about sex, and sex is about power.

Language does matter cause it's our primary means of sharing meaning with each other as humans.

Exactly, so why limit language, why not let people express themselves how they want?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad they express themselves "how they want" because it makes it obvious how hateful TRP ideology is.

If you can't relax and enjoy someone giving you sex you might want to think about why. Most people are capable of both giving and taking. That's how all the relationships I know about work.

Male aggression is a good thing for me. A side effect is female subservience. I didn't make the world like this, the world came like this to me.

Nah. It's how you choose to interpret the world. In reality, male aggression is limited to a small percentage of all men. Aggression is more common among men but its very few men that are actually aggressive.

they are still different from women

Not in the way TRP says. Women can do logic and they can be just as good friends as men. Men can be nurturing and empathic just like women. Women and men are controlled by their feelings equally much. Differences between individuals are much bigger than differences between genders and what's considered male versus female differs between cultures and has differed in history.

Assuming PUA advice is result oriented. If gender neutral advice was the best advice, wouldn't it naturally float to the top to be the best PUA advice because it achieves the most results.

Everything isn't necessarily good because it gives some kind of result. If it involves unethical practices it can still be bad. I could write a book about how women can most effectively trick men in to making women pregnant. Would you say that's a good book if it works for many women who want to get pregnant?

[–]nninja-1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]danhakimiTalking about pills is stupid0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinionRed Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Question for Blue: What's the problem with this strategy?

We are looking at the comment chain that I permalinked to. This is /u/nicethingyoucanthave's comment, the response to him, and /u/nicethingyoucanthave's response to that comment. WE ARE NOT LOOKING AT THE OP.

Comments

redpillfanfiction #GLOjobs (for those bpers here for the entertainment)

Title	Question for Blue: What's the problem with this strategy?
Author	YouDislikeMyOpinion
Upvotes	3
Comments	221
Date	February 11, 2014 6:08 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1xmpx8/question_for_blue_whats_the_problem_with_this/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-for-blue-whats-the-problem-with-this.286222 https://theredarchive.com/post/286222