Which do you think is more true?

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt22 points23 points24 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (69 children) | Copy Link

[–]joseremarqueLSD+MDMA1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]joseremarqueLSD+MDMA0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

When you make your claim, you deliberately spin away some toxic/abusive relationships, and some really shitty sexual experiences where the women were shamed for it after. Not to mention all the women who can't keep a healthy relationship because of their own issues.

Also, what does this have to do with "rejecting unattractive men"?

if you'd like to get to know someone, then PM them as you would anywhere but don't assume they're poor sods who'd be glad to be propositioned crudely by an internet stranger.

It's an incredibly cheap way of expanding the definition to include anyone who does an unattractive thing, then claiming that women reject men based on shallow criteria.

Based on your post, and its upvotes, I'd say you've proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a lot of men here have a hard time relating to the bottom 20 percent of women.

Their problems aren't the same as your problems, so they're not real? Don't ever complain again about women giving you advice meant for women.

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

It's really telling that I specifically made a post about those problems being different, and your go-to reaction is to berate me for not taking the side of the women seriously enough. This is yet another demonstration of how invisible the issues of undesirable men are. But, to the point.

When you make your claim, you deliberately spin away some toxic/abusive relationships, and some really shitty sexual experiences where the women were shamed for it after.

Yes, because problems with relationships and with having satisfactory sex are inherently different from a total and complete lack of relationships and sex, or opportunity to find them.

Not to mention all the women who can't keep a healthy relationship because of their own issues.

Yes, because having difficulties keeping a relationship is inherently different from simply being undesirable and thus unable to have any sort of relationship at all.

Also, what does this have to do with "rejecting unattractive men"?

The clause was added specifically for male members of r/foreveralone who would try to ask out "forever alone" women, assuming those are actually just as desperate for a relationship as the men are. "Forever alone" women felt it necessary to warn unattractive, undesirable men to not ask them out.

Their problems aren't the same as your problems, so they're not real?

I never said that. I demonstrated how different those issues are. And yet, you will be very, very hard-pressed to find women who actually acknowledge that the men's problems are different, let alone that the women are in an inherently better place than the men. The men, who are undesirable, literally cannot relate to the experience of being desired, of being alone because you don't like anybody who likes you. It feels alien to us - to choose loneliness and to lament that loneliness, while simultaneously having a way out. And yet, when forever alone men state that they can't relate to that, when they try to explain the difference between the problems faced by them and by "forever alone" women, you know what happens? They are branded as misogynists, downvoted, brigaded, censored and banned. Instead of acknowledging the issues faced by undesirable men, that make them unable to relate to those desirable women, the women dismiss them. They choose to believe that the men fail to relate not because they have their own unique set of problems that prevents such relation, but because those men are wicked.

So yes. Men see and acknowledge the issues faced by unattractive women. On the other hand, women, unattractive or attractive, do not see the issues faced by unattractive men.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I watched the men turn into shitheads. You're not going to convince me to ignore direct observation.

I'm not trying to, but again, you're arguing with someone else, not me.

Sure, those men turned into shitheads. The women still chose them over other men.

I gave up on you, when you refused to talk about anything that didn't serve your narrative.

Rather, you gave up on me when I didn't immediately buy into your narrative. You wanted me to either agree with you or present some typical inane arguments for a hypocritical misogynistic position. I didn't do that and you, unable to deal with anyone who is not a cookie-cutter bigot, defaulted to strawmanship. Since we're making this personal, I'm going so far as to say that you're probably a narcissist yourself and your relationships, whatever they are, are not nearly as nurturing and positive as you want to portray them.

Choose one thing to excel at. I don't care what. Do it for yourself.

I excel at many things. But none of those things are things that would attract anyone to me sexually and romantically. Apparently, you are unable to imagine someone being completely undesirable in that way and you are also unable to empathize with that.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (44 children) | Copy Link

[–]Koffing5 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (41 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

Going through the motions of love isn't the same as actual love.

It is still a relationship. And whether a relationship is "real actual true love" is something that starts to matter only after a relationship begins. And a relationship will not begin if both parties don't desire each other.

I've met men and women who obsess over completely owning someone. They see a relationship as reflecting themselves, nothing is given without consequence, and any unwanted individuality is worn down and broken.

Yes, that's narcissism for you. And yet, such people are still selective about who they want to "own" - plenty of narcissistic women around me, not one of them has ever been interested in me. So, if a woman rejects a dozen unattractive guys, then dates an attractive one who turns out to be a narcissist and hurts her, that doesn't change the fact that this woman is desirable and able to have relationships.

So are those who fly away the moment you give them a serious problem to deal with.

Again, a relationship that for some reason is deemed not good enough is still a relationship. So someone chose you, then found out something about you they didn't like and bailed? That's still a relationship.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo3 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

My point was that a toxic relationship that doesn't meet your basic emotional needs is suffocating, and feels just like being alone.

How would you know that? Neither you, nor any "forever alone" woman has ever experienced the suffocation feeling of being unable to have any sort of relationship at all. I'm not saying toxic relationships are good. I'm saying that those two situations are different, and yet it's women who are demanding that they be treated as equal and attacking men when they can't relate.

Only without the privacy, and very little chance to consider your own thoughts.

And with the added bonus of having the choice to leave that relationship and find another one. You can always stop being in a toxic relationship. Someone like me cannot just stop being undesirable.

considering there are men who regard their freedom as more important than being controlled, you can't honestly claim one better than the other

And again you show your complete inability to empathize with the experience of an FA male. It's very glaring. It's right there in that sentence I quoted. Can you spot it? I'm serious - can you, or is your lack of empathy for the FA man just that complete?

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm a man who considered himself an incel, forever alone, until I obsessed over finding out what was wrong with me, and changed everything I could for the better.

And I needed to know that why exactly?

I simply compared the two experiences directly. In the end, I chose alone over toxic.

I would too, if those were the only choices. But there is nothing that would cause a person to always have only toxic relationships. Believe it or not, even narcissists can have positive, functioning relationships. Even people with narcissistic personality disorder, the most severe form of narcissism, can have those. Even avoidants and schizoids can have them. A person who's had one bad relationship is surely capable of having a good one too.

I've never felt so helpless, as when I allowed myself to be poisoned.

And then you noticed that how you feel and how you are are two different states. You felt helpless, but you actually weren't, which is the critical difference that separates "FA" women and people like you from actual undesirable men. I don't just "feel" helpless - I actually am.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because you claimed I wasn't qualified to describe or criticize the forever alone experience from the male perspective?

Um... okay. So do it. So far you have been only talking about the forever alone experience of women. Or are you implying that FA men are the same as women - rejecting the opportunities that they have?

This is why you're having problems. It's not a difficult thing for you to have figured out for yourself. But you're determined to fight everyone who doesn't agree with you, in every single way you can, to the point where it's clouding your mind. That kind of toxic smog will keep women far away.

You're not ready for a relationship, yet. Not one that will last.

You're very desperate to project the image of someone wise and worldly, to the point where you resort to flowery prose with no relevance to the ongoing discussion and no actual content either. This just further reaffirms my suspicion that you're narcissistic.

At some point, even when disagreeing with someone passionately, it helps to acknowledge why they disagree.

I believe you disagree because you are uncomfortable with the idea that women are blind and unempathetic to the issues faced by bottom of the barrel men. I believe you're uncomfortable with that idea because it runs counter to the popular narrative of women being wonderful and perfect and constantly victimized by men. I believe you hold onto that narrative because you think that makes you a good person, and you want very much to be seen as a good person.

Do you have friends?

What does your strawman say?

Prove it.

Prove what? I'm a soon to be 32 year old virgin. I've worked for years to improve myself, and despite some results, could never become attractive enough. I've had women specifically tell me that it's impossible for anyone to be attracted to me. If there's anything else available to me that I could do to reliably improve my attractiveness, I'm not aware of it.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Or are you implying that FA men are the same as women - rejecting the opportunities that they have?

Yes, I am. There are many, many, women complaining that they can't find someone who cares about what they're going through while still bringing something to the table in themselves.

Why doesn't that register as a hint, to you?

What are your passions in life? And if you don't have any, have you been tested for mental illness? This isn't a joke. Who are you, when you're the most you?

And -

What's your sense of humor style? How do you have fun? What kind of conversation openers do you use?

I believe you disagree because you are uncomfortable with the idea that women are blind and unempathetic to the issues faced by bottom of the barrel men.

Hardly. Read the post where I said nobody understands anyone else. There was nothing more depressing than advice like "Just let someone fuck you already."

What made the difference in the end, was someone doing to me what I'm trying to do to you. You need to be able to offer something that makes people's days a little better, at least...

If there's anything else available to me that I could do to reliably improve my attractiveness, I'm not aware of it.

I'd need to know what you're working with, to offer any step by step advice. How well can you read expressions and body language? How well do you know your own?

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There are many, many, women complaining that they can't find someone who cares about what they're going through while still bringing something to the table in themselves.

Yes, there are. And they are still unwilling to date unattractive men, regardless of the men's willingness to relate and understand.

Why doesn't that register as a hint, to you?

Because it's a useless hint. I took it over a decade ago, only to find out that it isn't true.

You need to be able to offer something that makes people's days a little better, at least...

Back when back, I was able to offer warmth, empathy, acceptance. To extend a helping hand, to the extent of my ability to help. But that isn't enough, because for it to make me boyfriend material, I would also need to be attractive, and I am simply not. Nowadays, I'm not sure I can offer even the above, because the very idea inside of me is rendered moot by the understanding that as long as I cannot somehow attract a woman, incite her to choose to be in a relationship with me, none of that even matters.

How well can you read expressions and body language? How well do you know your own?

Pretty good. The former is part of my job description, actually.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, there are. And they are still unwilling to date unattractive men, regardless of the men's willingness to relate and understand.

I never said offering understanding and assistance was all you needed. We both know it's too quick to turn into emotional dependency or exploitation if it's not also tempered by common sense and a little wisdom.

And, like I also said -

You also need to actually bring something of your own to the table, as well.

Goals, talents, passions, expertise, a sense of humor, a sense of mystery, anything that invites people to go on an adventure with you, or feel safe enough to cast off their inhibitions - you need to invoke something that makes people want to be as close to you as possible.

There is no other way to do it.

Seriously, go somewhere, where natural flirts hang out online. Let them practice on you. Learn how to do what they're doing.

Then start flirting with them. Learn how to tease a tease, in an "everybody wins" kind of way.

Learn how to just have fun with the journey, before you worry so much about the destination.

You have natural gifts that will help you learn how to get people hot and bothered, especially if you can let go of your worries about how they see you.

Nobody can see you online, if you don't want them to.

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You also need to actually bring something of your own to the table, as well.

Well, you know, it's not like I'm some sort of faceless blob completely devoid of personality. But what I can bring to the table, the amount of it and the quality of it, is simply not enough for anyone to feel attraction. I do the things I like and try to grow as a person, but the older I get, the less I even feel a sense of direction in that growth, because nothing I ever do seems to matter to any other person out there.

Seriously, go somewhere, where natural flirts hang out online.

I'm not a flirting master or anything, but I am able to flirt, as has been exemplified by some of my Tinder conversations. My flirting skills are at the very least better than those of some of my friends who do date. The problem is that no woman wants to flirt with a man like me IRL. Flirting is a sexually charged activity, and nobody wants to engage in anything sexual with someone like me. But you don't even see that much, do you? You literally cannot fathom this state that I live in - a state of not having any opportunities for romantic interaction. You think I'm like past you, who had opportunities but messed them up. Is that correct?

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

because nothing I ever do seems to matter to any other person out there.

I don't know why I'm going to say this, since you're just going to tell me to fuck off again, but it matters to me.

No, seriously.

I'm the kind of idiot who finds everyone's efforts to grow, and the interests they've picked up, embarassingly fascinating.

And what you're doing for your mom? It's easy to be a hero when there's a rush of adrenaline, and a split second's decision. You do it, day after day, for little reward, or recognition.

I admire the Hell out of you, for that.

Anyways, those are my honest thoughts - feel free to kick my ass, if you wish.

The problem is that no woman wants to flirt with a man like me IRL.

I'll respond to that as I respond to -

You think I'm like past you, who had opportunities but messed them up. Is that correct?

I think looking anywhere with as much competition going on as Tinder is a mistake. It's better to be a large fish in a small pond.

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't know why I'm going to say this, since you're just going to tell me to fuck off again, but it matters to me.

I'm not going to tell you to fuck off. My therapist tells me the same thing, but we both know that this isn't the kind of mattering that reinforces a person. I don't know you. You don't know me. The kind of selfless pseudo-love to which everybody "matters" is small comfort to someone who has no one to consider him in a personal, individual way. Especially not after years of this isolation have eroded his identity.

I'm not telling you to fuck off, and I won't even criticize this disposition of yours because well, it's good, it does nobody any harm. It just does nothing for me as a person. It doesn't give me back the sense of direction that I used to have years ago, let alone actually help me become in some way attractive. In the face of that, it does not even comfort me. I'm sorry.

I think looking anywhere with as much competition going on as Tinder is a mistake.

Ummm... you're totally missing the point. I get matches on Tinder because I have a few very flattering dishonest photos and combined with my profile, which mentions that I'm trilingual, that gets me some interest from the kind of woman who would use Tinder in Russia. Tinder is the most viable dating service in my country anyway. Okc is mostly dead and local dating sites are taken over by hookers.

I do flirt, relatively successfully. But women who actually see what I look like, immediately shut that down - they don't want that kind of interaction with a man like me, they're not comfortable nor happy doing it.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You don't imagine poor and unattractive older women with serious issues, especially about leaving the house, could possibly understand poor little you?

Do those women know what it's like to be young and undesirable? No. Do they have past experience, having been desired and having their worth validated? Yes.

I know what it's like for an older lonely woman with issues - I'm taking care of my mother, who has severe dementia and had alienated pretty much everyone in her life by her mid 40s. It's not pretty. It's damn horrible, actually. But it's still different and, if we absolutely had to put it on a better/worse scale, better than being a forever alone man. Better how? Easy. I'm also going to be alone and undesired when I'm old, too, just like those women. Except I won't have any positive experience in my past and no one to take care of me.

nobody's coming

Those who used to

Need I say more.

And I'm not even going to ask if your mom has ever tried to be proactive about it, instead of just waiting for someone to come to her.

Do fuck off now.

It's not like I'm holding you. You can turn tail and run any time you want, you dishonest coward.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's the exact opposite of your own worth being validated.

We wouldn't know, because I have never experienced being desired, and neither you nor those women have ever experienced a lifetime of never being desired. I would take meaningless sex over no sex, because the former will leave me with the knowledge that I am able to have sex. Same with relationships. Same with being desired.

Can these women understand what it's like to never have been desired at all, because they have been desired by those they deemed not good enough? No, I don't think that experience would garner them such understanding.

You should see her do everything wrong many men do.

How convenient, then, that I never will, right?

I had the balls to face myself and change for the better. What's stopping you?

It doesn't take a lot of balls to make yourself more attractive. Be careful not to break your back with all those pats you're giving yourself.

What's stopping me is that I did change for the better, but even the best man I can be is still not good enough even for the most desperate and lonely women, even if we shared a lot in common. They just weren't attracted.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We wouldn't know, because I have never experienced being desired, and neither you nor those women have ever experienced a lifetime of never being desired.

Except I was older than you when I lost my virginity, and I've been making up for lost time ever since.

Can these women understand what it's like to never have been desired at all

You clearly can't understand what it's like to be suffocated by that desire, so why are you pretending you have more right to judge than I do? You're half blind.

How convenient, then, that I never will, right?

Or maybe more than half.

You pity yourself. You hate yourself. You lash out at anyone who tries to offer hope.

That's never attractive.

What's stopping me is that I did change for the better, but even the best man I can be is still not good enough even for the most desperate and lonely women, even if we shared a lot in common.

How did you go about getting to know them better? How did you flirt? What signs indicate a woman is becoming interested in you?

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Except I was older than you when I lost my virginity, and I've been making up for lost time ever since.

But you ARE negating you past of being undesirable. You were alone because you were doing something wrong, not because you were inherently unworthy of any desire.

You clearly can't understand what it's like to be suffocated by that desire

I don't claim to.

You lash out at anyone who tries to offer hope.

I don't lash out, I just reject that hope, because it's hope I can't hold. It's easy for someone healthy to hold hope that their amputee relative's limb will grow back. If the amputee tries to adopt that hope, it will just cause them additional anguish, and eventually they won't be able to hope anymore.

How did you flirt?

Here's another clear indication that you have no idea of the actual experience of the undesirable male.

What signs indicate a woman is becoming interested in you?

We both know you're not asking this question in good faith.

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]DevilDwarv 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

But then what?

Why do you feel the need to ask this question? If I can't answer it, will that, in your eyes, justify the continued dismissal of incel?

I think society knows that there are men who can't get sex.

What makes you think so? Are there any realistic media portrayals of incels anywhere? Are there any spaces not run by incels where incel can be safely discussed? Is incel and its effects on a person in some way studied? No, they're not. So what makes you think that society is aware?

Yes they get shamed, but I'd argue almost more by other men than by women.

Next time you try to subtly insert a "women are just better" statement, do it subtly.

That shit needs to stop though.

But has anybody ever done anything to stop it? It "should" stop, but as long as it hasn't stopped, you and the rest of society aren't going to deny yourself the pleasure of punching down on such an easy target.

As for solving their problem, it's pretty much impossible.

"Why fight for the civil rights of racial minorities? Yes, maybe we should stop mistreating them so badly, but as for solving their problem, it's pretty much impossible - it's not like they can ever become white, right?"

Actually I think the best bet to solve their problems would be to get rid of a lot of "masculine" ideals like "therapy is for losers" etc.

And here you are demonstrating the exact ignorance that I am talking about. You posit that incels need therapy. You don't know what incel is like. Neither do therapists. You don't know that incel or anything similar has never even been researched in the field of psychology. You aren't aware that the experiences of incels who go into therapy trying to get out of incel or to find peace with it is universally negative - it never works. You are not aware of any of those things, yet here you are, implying that incels need therapy - a very dismissive attitude, I would say bordering on callousness, and very characteristic of how the issue of incel is treated in society.

Just for kicks - how do you imagine therapy helping someone who is simply too undesirable to ever attract another human being?

[–]DevilDwarv 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

If I can't answer it, will that, in your eyes, justify the continued dismissal of incel?

What do you mean with "dismissal of incel"? I agree that shaming needs to stop.

Next time you try to subtly insert a "women are just better" statement, do it subtly.

No, I'm saying that it's the standards of masculinity that a lot of men still uphold, that hurt these people the most.

But has anybody ever done anything to stop it?

I know I don't judge or bully people based on their (non)sexual history. Nor do the people I hang out with. What else can I do? Protest on the streets?

"Why fight for the civil rights of racial minorities? Yes, maybe we should stop mistreating them so badly, but as for solving their problem, it's pretty much impossible

Not the same thing. Like I said earlier, I'm all for stopping shaming them. I do my part by not shaming myself and not hanging out with people who do. But solving their problems as in giving them sex? How do you want to do that?

You posit that incels need therapy.

Hell yes I do. Have you ever visited /r/foreveralone ? A lot of these guys have clear self-esteem issues/depression/mental ilness. Therapy helps with that in a lot of cases. Not saying that all of them need it, but I think it would help a lot of them.

Just for kicks - how do you imagine therapy helping someone who is simply too undesirable to ever attract another human being?

Again, look on /r/foreveralone . Most of the posts aren't about how ugly they are (although some are), but how they can't talk to people, have depression etc. Overcoming that will make you more desirable.

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I know I don't judge or bully people based on their (non)sexual history.

Everyone says that, and yet the shaming of sexually unattractive and inexperienced men is, if anything, only growing. I don't know you, but I would bet money that you do indeed engage in the shaming as well. It's a bet with some very good odds.

But solving their problems as in giving them sex? How do you want to do that?

"The problem" of American blacks wasn't that they were black.

Have you ever visited /r/foreveralone ?

I was a long-time poster there, yes. Got banned when the radfem mods moved in.

A lot of these guys have clear self-esteem issues/depression/mental ilness. Therapy helps with that in a lot of cases.

When someone is undesirable AND is shamed for it, of course they will have lowered self-esteem and eventually depression. How and what kind of therapy would "help with that in a lot of cases"? You don't know. You are just dropping a buzzword to dismiss the issue.

[–]DevilDwarv 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Everyone says that, and yet the shaming of sexually unattractive and inexperienced men is, if anything, only growing. I don't know you, but I would bet money that you do indeed engage in the shaming as well. It's a bet with some very good odds.

And you'd be wrong.

When someone is undesirable AND is shamed for it, of course they will have lowered self-esteem and eventually depression. How and what kind of therapy would "help with that in a lot of cases"? You don't know. You are just dropping a buzzword to dismiss the issue.

Of course I'm not. When you have actually crippling social anxiety, you being alone becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because you don't dare talk to people and if you do, you're so filled with anxiety that you completely fuck it up. Therapy can absolutely help with those issues and it can also help with overcoming extreme anxiety. I could know, it helped me.

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]DevilDwarv 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]CarkudoThe original opinionated omega1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DevilDwarv1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Carkudo2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Papa_Rymski1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kick6Red Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheSonofLibertyUndecided0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Which do you think is more true?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	1
Comments	85
Date	February 1, 2016 4:48 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/43mwyq/which_do_you_think_is_more_true/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/which-do-you-think-is-more-true.276543 https://theredarchive.com/post/276543

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