If a mans value peaks mid 30s, how do you explain most older guys getting NOTHING?

BayerischeMotoren · 2013-11-23T20:33:23+00:00

You are mistaking potential for actual results. The average 30 something year old American man makes somewhere in the range of $30-60k, is overweight and still plugged in: mediocre looks, average status/wealth and weak Game. A lot of 30 something year old guys aren't even on the market anymore because they are locked down in serious relationships.

Now you tell me: if you invested time improving your physique through diet/exercise, advancing your career/building your business and learning Game, would your SMV be higher at 35 than 22?

lordofthejelly · 2013-11-23T20:30:56+00:00

What I DO see, is TONS and TONS of YOUNG ( 21 - 24 ) year old frat bros, gym bros, college athletes, hipster druggies, and thugs getting MASSIVE poon. All these dudes are YOUNG, POOR, and have ZERO life experience. Where the fuck are all these mid 30s early 40s dudes swooping young 20 something 8s and 9s? NOWHERE.

A couple things. First, you are operating in a mindset similar to the feminist one, in which only the top 20% of men are really visible to you. 21-24 year olds who are getting jack squat are EVERYWHERE...probably a safe bet that a large proportion of readers here were in that camp at that age. Which is why we ended up here

Second, and maybe this is just me, but now that I've hit my late 20s and have managed to turn it around somewhat, I don't exactly publicize it outside of close friends. A 28-40 year-old dating an 18-20 year-old will often be regarded as a perv by constipated* hamsters...the worst ones (both in terms of butthurt and potential consequences) being in HR departments

*read: extreme butthurt

Ethan47 · 2013-11-23T19:50:06+00:00

What I DO see, is TONS and TONS of YOUNG ( 21 - 24 ) year old frat bros, gym bros, college athletes, hipster druggies, and thugs getting MASSIVE poon.

No, you don't. Unless you are in the bedroom, you are making a guess based on their behaviors. You don't literally SEE it happen.

It doesn't disprove what you said, but be wary of making a generalization based on young guys talking big game.

I hiked with a guy this summer who was 42, but looked 30, his description of game had me in awe. Basically he crushes while those around him think he's a bit unlucky, a bit picky, but a nice, career-oriented guy (co-owner of several personal training studios). By not talking about his conquests he allows other people to remain comfortable, thinking he's 'safe'.

Mitchell78 · 2013-11-23T20:14:27+00:00

Your value will peak in your 30s if you continue to build yourself up, stay/get in shape, advance in your career etc

frequentlywrong · 2013-11-23T19:50:29+00:00

Clubs aren't the only places to meet women. You're basically using female logic here. Just because you're not seeing it in your every day life, does not mean it's not happening.

LouisWinthorpIII · 2013-11-23T19:48:22+00:00

30-50 year old male (high status) vs 30-50 year old male (average/low status) = night/day difference. Location matters too, Manhattan is very different from the bible belt.

speakergray · 2013-11-23T20:02:40+00:00

A 30-50 year old male with high status doesn't game in clubs or in bars. He has no need. This is a man who's day game is strong. This is a man with choices.

Also, if you are only looking to run game in clubs and bars, its no wonder why you haven't seen these men.

ATowne · 2013-11-23T22:01:59+00:00

You are going about the idea wrong. First, you eschew the logical conclusion (that you admit makes sense) for anecdotal evidence. Second, that anecdotal evidence is based on what YOU and YOU ALONE have seen/heard.

A big thing that you're missing is access. Unless you are in your mid 30s, are successful, take care of yourself, etc., and have equally privileged friends you would not be able to see this occurring. Do you frequent the same country clubs/bars as lawyers, doctors and big business executives? I highly doubt it - few do.

I'm still fairly young (22), have decent prospects (medical school), decent shape and I can tell that I attract female attention. Imagining myself 10 years down the line, after 10 more years of working out, a stable career and a shitton of more life experience...why wouldn't I get more girls than at 22?

Now that being said, the MAJORITY of men do not get better with age. Those are the ones that you see strike out/look creepy/etc. Just like what you see in your 20s, a small group of guys get a ton of girls, that same thing happens in your 30s, 40s and beyond. It's just that being in shape/successful/etc in your 30s distances you from the pack A LOT more than does being in shape/popular in your 20s. Just being in your early 20s you are naturally in your physiological peak, but so is everyone else. Being jacked and 30? You're a male unicorn.

I went to a networking event this past weekend, meeting quite a few older executives, at this high end bar in the center of my city's financial district (2 shots of their cheapest whiskey cost me 55$ total). The average age of the males there was probably 40. The average age of women? 25.

hermit087 · 2013-11-23T20:01:34+00:00

Thank you for this post, this is something that has always bothered me about the manosphere as well. If you wanted to make a graph illustrating a mans power relative to women HIS OWN AGE, then yes it would continue climbing into the 30's and beyond. When it comes to banging 20yo women, which every man wants if they are being honest, then the average mans true peak is in his 20's.

Using red pill knowledge to try to improve your life over time is great. But don't get it twisted, the drug dealers, musicians, and college athletes in their prime are still going to get more young pussy than you ever will just by practicing approaches and hitting the gym.

IdleGod · 2013-11-23T20:10:48+00:00

It's the same at that age. The few alphas get all the pussy. (I'm honestly not a big fan of the 20% - 80% relation. There is no way in hell that 20% of men are good enough to attract a reasonable amount of females. I'd say it's more like 5%. Not sure about the amount of women though. There is no way 80% of women are desirable (not even for a single fuck) for an alpha male. I personally wouldn't even consider banging the lowest 70% of women at all, and that's a generous estimation on my side.

drrrrrr · 2013-11-24T09:22:58+00:00

Because we don't live in RP fantasy land. Most thirty year olds are not alphas using their wealth, experience, intelligence, and finely honed killer instinct to run train through your average college campus. Most thirty year olds have low as fuck Test (due to a variety of factors going far beyond age), are not actually rich enough to justify spending time and money at bars / clubs, and are either married or looking to get remarried because society told them that's the only way to get happy. They are older, yes, which means STRONGER HAMSTER. They have been in relationships for 10+ years, they are so disconnected from their masculinity it is tragic.

By the pyramid law, 90% of these men have to beta themselves to function at work, simply because that's what's expected when dealing with your bosses (and HR). These men then go home, defer to their wives' judgment, and learn to be greatful to spend some time with their kids, have a few creature comforts, and basically live for the rare moments where they feel power, like a woman at work flirts with them and they think "I totally could have nailed her! but no."

Watch American Beauty - most 30 year olds are slowly becoming like that.

Now 20 year olds may be beta as fuck as well. Most 20 year olds are not fucking their way through sororities, clubs, salsa classes, and their workplace. They get more action simply because 20 year olds put themselves constantly in situations with other 20 year olds. All my work friends are beta as fuck, like full BP. But they club / bar hop once a week, fail-flirt with everyone at the office, and go to their friend's parties. With a little alcohol, they can wet their dicks every few months or so, and when they do, they rush to turn it into a relationship.

So yes, they get laid more than your average 30 or 40 year old, but it's largely through just being part of the culture / around your own age group. Who is more likely to spend 10 nights a month at your local hot club filled with 8s and 9s, a 20 year old or 30 year old? That is basically your answer. If the 30 year olds got out there, they would do fine, but they don't, because of the test-drain, midlife deterioration I described above.

IdleGod · 2013-11-23T20:30:32+00:00

You don't really realize it because the 30-something guys who get it aren't the 30 something guys who look like they're old. They're a bit more distinguished, have some money, but could pass for someone younger.

I have a friend who looks like he is in his late 20s at best. I saw him take home two 21 year olds (both 7s or 8s). So, I do see it happen, but it's not from the haggard old guys.

That, and the old guys who are getting it are the ones in the VIP room that you can't see, where they point at a hottie and tell some 20 something chump to reel her in.

2013-11-23T22:15:17+00:00

Simple, you are basing your conclusions on your own observations and experience, which is very limited and may even be incorrect. How many single 35+ men do you actually know, as in well enough that they will discuss their sex lives with you?

ScannerSloppy · 2013-11-23T19:50:49+00:00

What does "10x less" mean?

anonysaurus · 2013-11-23T20:33:59+00:00

How old are you? Where are you hanging out?

It's all about high status vs. low status in your 30's. If you are low status and passed up on all your opportunities to make something out of yourself. You definitely don't want to be that old dude sitting at the bar drinking your sorrows away. You reek of sorrow, pitty and desperation. If you have done something with your life and still progressing. Your SMV skyrockets.

2013-11-23T23:02:36+00:00

How old are you original poster?

2013-11-23T20:19:57+00:00

Not letting yourself run fat, having a trendy age appropriate hair style and charisma will bring you good things.

jeebusthecat · 2013-11-23T21:40:23+00:00

It's about potential. If you sow the seeds when you're young (e.g., diet, fitness, work, game, life experience), by 30+, you could have a much higher status than nearly all younger men and men your own age. Around me, it's mostly men ~30 years old dating early and mid 20something women.

ryeprotagonist · 2013-11-24T02:54:38+00:00

40 year old RP bro reporting in.

Getting more ass than a toilet seat and spinning plates like it's my job. My target FWBs are all 27-32 year old "7's". Are they hot 22 year old "dimes"? no... but then again i'm not rich or famous or looking like an underwear model. Just 40, fit enough, well-off enough, handsome-enough and a lifetime of cocky-funny game that gets me laid like tile.

As a comparison, I had 2 LTRs in my mid 20s and did okay-ish in acquiring notches. In my 30s when I made a formal study of the principles of game, my notch count exploded... and I live in what many consider to be the roughest city in the world to meet women (and I don't disagree with that).

Anyway OP, believe in TRM's age chart. For men with game, you may take it as Gospel.

rp_manifesto · 2013-11-24T01:08:57+00:00

Its cause these men are worse betas than the 20's guys, theyve had ten more years of being betaized, but the demographics you list are by and large alpha types. Frat bros/athletes and thugs all translates to a lot of aggression and testosterone. Hipster druggies are edgy, and that can be a draw for girls especially if the girls are getting drugs for free (which is usually whats happening).

I know a guy who is almost 30, looks even older, and his life has been a mess but hes always fucking some hot super young looking girls. He doesn't even have good clothing style, he just has game.

I get interest from young girls all the time. There is some hamstering/LMR to deal with because there is the social pressure to not sleep with guys too much older than you because then its "like you are sleeping with your father" or some other such analogy. The truth is that young girls really want to get ravaged by older experienced dick, and so many do but they keep it on the DL from friends and family even if its only one guy.

Many of these girls don't want a public affair with a guy ten years her senior and in a totally different arena of life than her because she doesn't want to be called out as some kind of sexual deviant. Some girls might settle for such a guy, that happens sometimes, but usually I dont see that.

Edit: In short a girls SMV risks decreasing in the eyes of her peers if the guy is seen as too old. If he is old he better be obviously high value or she risks being called out even more. At least old with high value makes sense in a practical way, so age is often overlooked in that circumstance.

noblepaladin · 2013-11-24T07:57:20+00:00

First of all, keep in mind that most guys (old and young) don't get much action.

And then, sampling bias. People who are in their 30s have established careers and jobs, you won't run into many of them in clubs or bars. For example, you won't find any frat bros or hipster druggies in the financial district, but a lot of young people work there and hang out after work.

Also, you may see some young frat bro chatting with a hot girl in the club or bar. But the hit rate is notoriously low at clubs and bars. Even the professional PUAs admit that the club scene is mainly for the anonymity and quantity. A low value guy can approach 100 girls and be seen carrying an extended conversation to 10 of them (which you can misidentify as "success"). He might get laid with one of them. But is that really that good? If you swing the bat enough, you will hit something. A 35 year old guy with an established career and resources can simply ask a girl out in his natural environment and have a far higher hit percentage.

I didn't really believe this at first either. But when I was 28, I was speaking at a conference to MBA students. I was a professional talking about my industry to the students. After I gave my talk, I met a hot 23 year old girl who was there (easily the best looking girl out of the 200 people there). We chatted a bit and I simply asked her out and she said yes. Physically, I looked better in college (my hair started receding early). But I never stood a chance with the hottest girl in a room of mostly young people. This was easy mode because I was established as the alpha. You simply cannot get that much status at 20 unless you are expected to be a pro-athlete or you were a child/teenage actor or singer.

Keep in mind that most people, both guys and girls, don't hit their full potential. For example, most girls are in good shape in their teens (during growth spurt, kids consume tons of calories, so you don't see many fatties). The early 20s suppose to be the peak years for women. But many don't take care of their bodies and they end up looking like crap soon after. I remember a lot of girls in college that looked great during their freshman year, but then ballooned up 15-20 pounds because they ate crap all day and they drank too much alcohol (their parents probably fed them healthy food in their teens, but now they are on their own). These women wasted their potential. If the obesity epidemic continues, many girls will peak at 14, because they will be obese by 16. But genetically, a woman's peak suppose to be later than 14.

2013-11-24T21:04:14+00:00

OP, you are right.

To be fair: If a boy was successful with girls, it does not mean that he will stay successful with women as a man. And vise versa.

But there is no guarantee or even tendency that a 30-40yo man has a higher SMV than a 25 yo. If both have the same social status, a 25 yo can find a partner more easily.

I am 24 yo. If I smile at 30 yo women, they are usually flattered. The "advantage" of single 40yo men might be that they consider 25-45 yo women as potential partners. While a 25yo man considers only 20-27 yo women as potential partners.

lookiamapollo · 2013-11-27T03:56:29+00:00

You have to improve yourself through your 20's so you can take advantage of your 30's

LasherDeviance · 2013-11-24T01:17:00+00:00

I'm Mid 30's (34) and my main dish is 23, two of my side plates are 24 and 27 respectively. Don't use your eyes motherfucker, use science. Most men aren't going to flat out tell you about who they are fucking if they aren't married outside of here. That's what 16 year olds do. "Hey guys, check out this girl I fucked!" Of course young frat guys and the like are fucking chicks, thats the carousel that we continuously talk about, but the quality of the chicks that you smash increases as the amount of smashable women decreases. Those guys that you observe fucking all those chicks wont wife them up for the most part.

Also, 20-something year old chicks arent going to tell a guy their age that they fuck guys ten years older than them. Think about it. If a chick wont truthfully disclose to you how many guys she has fucked in general, why would she disclose the fact that she fucks older guys as well. 20 year old chicks don't have $500 Prada purses because they can afford them, they have them because some older cat with his head on straight and some dough to blow bought them for her. Why? Because she fucked that dude, thats why.

Edit: Protip... Rollo/Rational Male is the truth. You should probably listen to him.

redpillspeeddate · 2013-11-24T06:15:32+00:00

Ok, I should chime in here. I am 32, I became a widower at 30, part of my recovery was getting back out there and finding new snatch. I was out in the dating scene last time when I was 21, so for 9 years my notch count was solid just barely breaking the double digits.

Since things changed, I dropped weight, traveled, I took up surfing 5 years ago, and all these things merge together to make it basically fall in my lap. Mind you I have had to put a ton of work in, changed where I lived (more urban, better logistics), learned game, changed into basically leading instead of asking for permission.

All this has come together in averaging 2+ new notches a month, never over 30 (my first few were a bit over, but you have to walk before you run), or with kids, some as young as 19 (these are rare because I like going to bars and not being able to take your date there sucks). I have a nice stable of plates and a few scattered around the country when I travel. Life is pretty damn good.

The biggest thing I have learned is to not advertise what you are up to. I generally go out with a different girl 3-5 nights a week so keeping anyone up to speed is tough, but its a hell of a lot of fun. So yeah, things are much better in my 30s than in my twenties.

The biggest thing you need to do is work on being as attractive and interesting as possible as well as having solid game. I reject far more girls because I see things I don't like, and in the 2.5 years I have been out there I have had exactly 1 girl break things off. YMMV but this is a great community and I am very happy to be part of it.

alt30313 · 2013-11-23T21:09:28+00:00

Just search /r/funny for "dating pool in your 30s" and look at the answers that the guys gave. You'll see that you're wrong.

Hateblade · 2013-11-24T02:50:12+00:00

Just because something has value doesn't mean that value is realized.

RejectionEquality · 2013-11-24T03:57:29+00:00

Do you really think that a 40-year-old man is going to broadcast to the world that he's banging a 20-year-old? Or vice-versa?

ejpusa · 2013-11-24T06:31:35+00:00

ok, a bit dated, but still relevant.

What Women Want Is a Guy Who's Been Around—and Who Still Is. That's Why Sean Connery Is the Sexiest Man Alive, 1989

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20116288,00.html

Opioidus · 2013-11-24T09:27:15+00:00

It's been said that older gentlemen must have a very tight game because it is expected of them and a lack of game/lazy game will hurt them much, much more than it would a young fella. What you see is the first generation of pussified, beta losers getting old and being dumped on the market by their third wife.

KissTheBridesmaid · 2013-11-24T12:28:37+00:00

There are WAY fewer single guys in their mid 30's than early twenties. This is why you see more younger chaps getting poon. Trust me those in their mid 30's that are single are cleaning up. Problem is most men are told late twenties that they should hurry up and commit because they are 'no spring chicken' so by mid 30's they are married and getting sex twice a year. From a 35 year old post-waller. I am 34 and sinlge. 90% of my plates this year have been under 25, 4 of them under 20 (2 of those are still spinning).

KublerRossWasWrong · 2013-11-24T13:56:06+00:00

The premise that a man's SMV peaks in his 30s is false. As a 50+ male, I can assure you that as long as you take care of yourself and--in TRP parlance--maintain your frame, women will continue to find you irresistible.

In fact, if you manage to string together successful career years, one after another, your SMV actually increases. The peak, if there is one, happens far later than 30. The reality is that you will grow tired of The Game far earlier than you will naturally lose your attractiveness to hypergamous females.

Note that this doesn't mean they won't stop swooning, you just start not being interested. Especially if you decide that career of yours and The Game of Business hold far more interest...and reward. But, be warned, your lack of interest seems to just make them try harder.

After listening to men at work and in social situations talk about Don Draper and how they wish they were more like him, I watched a few episodes of Mad Men. Don Draper is a mess. I can relate to Roger Sterling, though.

ejpusa · 2013-11-24T06:26:07+00:00

I HIGHLY recommend Manhattan. Here the silver fox(s) is always doing A-OK. But it is Manhattan, which is a world onto itself.

Title	If a mans value peaks mid 30s, how do you explain most older guys getting NOTHING?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	31
Comments	69
Date	November 23, 2013 7:39 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1rawot/if_a_mans_value_peaks_mid_30s_how_do_you_explain/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/if-a-mans-value-peaks-mid-30s-how-do-you-explain.8192 https://theredarchive.com/post/8192

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