Justifications for honor and personal codes.

TrainingTheBrain · 2015-04-24T09:47:49+00:00

It's sad that your 'code of honor' comes from fear.

makethemwant · 2015-04-24T11:33:01+00:00

Buddhist perspective here. Once you become aware of the extent to which we are all connected, then you realize that to injure anyone else is to injure oneself.

awakenedmale · 2015-04-24T22:35:26+00:00

I follow a personal code of honor because I need to be able to respect myself. Regardless of consequences.

mryddlin · 2015-04-24T11:42:47+00:00

You are not a moral individual, you are ethical because you follow a ruleset imposed by an external organization.

Fear is your motivator, fear of a fucking fantasy novel.

Do yourself a favor and leave the ideologies behind.

My sense of right and wrong are internalized, I do not need to out source my morality.

You've hit the nail on the head, religious people are afraid of the world as it is, so they deny it with their books.

Hasn't changed a damn thing about human nature, your ethics are not that different from the pagans of old..not surprising since its the same fucking religion just with the many gods mashed into one god.

So not impressed, God doesn't exist the way you think it does.

Nantafiria · 2015-04-24T09:50:51+00:00

Generally, people have different terminal values than you or each other.

Some people may have a conscience that makes them feel worse about fucking married women than they would derive pleasure from it. Some people might feel better about telling her to get lost than they would if they went and fucked her. Some guys might actively consider morality and come to the conclusion that doing such a thing is wrong, and they'd rather not be a part of it, even if that means missing out.

In the end, you're not wrong to note that psychopathic types get ahead in the world. You're also missing the point. People don't stick to moral codes to get ahead in the world, they stick to them despite what they do being less effective for them.

new_cummer · 2015-04-27T00:51:39+00:00

For me honor and code are the base line principles of my personality that if breached will send me into a negative emotional state if I don't do anything to uphold them. On the other hand if I do make an effort towards upholding them I get a supreme sense of confidence regardless of the outcome. I have tried rationalizing them but I'll admit I don't fully understand them, may be because they're a product of how I was brought up.

Examples can be someone hitting me (unless you're a childhood friend or a cop) is utterly unacceptable, I don't care if the dude is twice my size. I will retaliate.

Another one is fucking around with other peoples money. I never do nor aid/advice anyone who is planning on doing that. In fact, I will warn the person being fucked over without a second thought.

Sleeping with married women, however, doesn't bother me the least bit. I've only done it once, it ended very badly and I did feel bad but not because I slept with a married woman.

68461674897051454980 · 2015-04-24T10:02:37+00:00

who don't sleep with married women because it betrays your sense of honor

most people, yourself included, follow honor or made-up rules for selfish reasons. You think you'll be judged by god, so you do what you think will prevent you from getting a bad judgement. some people feel empathetic towards the married guy, and if they fuck his wife, they feel bad because he will feel bad. So they don't want to feel bad, so they don't fuck her.

in this world where the lowest of the low morally, and the most brutally pragmatic sociopaths are the winners?

this isn't really true, and if you're waiting for god to clean em all up when judgement day comes, don't hold your breath. The people who are winners are the people who want to win, simply. It may be quicker in the short-term if a person breaks rules, but thinking that "oh all the winners are just sociopaths" is beta, Cosmopolitan logic.

this retarded logic has been popping up a lot in the last few years, I'm not sure whether it's just a defeatist mentality or if people are actually this stupid

Even the DSM definition of 'being a sociopath' (APD) contains many traits which clearly don't lead to a winner in life, especially a sustained winner

C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.

F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations.

D. Repeated assaults on others.

E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.

I mean from what you wrote, if you can just stop believing in god you'd be a 0 morals "sociopath" yourself

Words-Are-Wind · 2015-04-25T01:00:17+00:00

Athiest and immoralist here. Even I have certain codes I live by. I don't do it out of fear to some god, it's more of a sense of pride with some and just who I am with others. Now I don't know what you define winning as, but to me winning is making good money, getting good pussy, and living a good life. Does my behavior that stems from my personal ethics help any of that? In some ways yes and some ways no. But sometimes it's the small things that matter more than notch count or bank statements.

Here are some of my examples:

Work before pleasure. I like to do everything I don't want to do first. I feel it clouds my mind and I can't really enjoy stuff if I'm thinking about shit I don't want to do. And I can't help it so I get work done first. I've been that way since college, and I feel like I have really benefited. Not just work wise, but it makes the pleasure more pleasurable when you have literally zero stress.

Bros before hos. My friends all trust me around their gfs because they know I never have or ever will be so desperate as to steal their bitches, no matter how fine. They know I live bros before hos, and they for the most part are the same way with me. I'm still invited to their parties and activities while the ones who put women first aren't any more. To me it's simple: Don't risk a friendship and a social circle that can lead to many women for just 1.

Mind your money. I refuse to spend money on girls who aren't my girlfriend. This is good in 3 ways. 1: I save money. 2: They know they can't trash talk me in any way that would harm my SMV after were through, and if they do, no one would believe it. After all, who would believe a girl who's complaining about bad sex after she has spent so much time having sex with me without getting anything else out of it besides maybe some companionship? It just wouldn't make sense. 3: Identifies girls just looking for beta bux. Yeah they are still fuckable, but I'd rather not have to jump through the hoops and spend the money that is usually required for these girls.

Be respectful when it's due and of reputable character. I'm not really into monogamy or LTRs, but in regards to the few of them I've been in, I've never cheated. Mostly because the girls I were with were almost snowflake like with awesome personalities, bodies, faces and hobbies... but even if things went downhill I'd just dump them and look for someone else or take a little break from girls rather than cheat. Because of this my exs have mostly good things to say about me, and I'm still good friends with most of them. This increases my exposure to other girls, girls who have heard all these good stories from my exs. Ain't no seed planting like ex seeds. It is social proof in its most powerful form. Now if only they had some hotter friends...

So yeah, I probably gave up some pussy, but my money situation and social situation is in a much better place for it. I know guys who are kind of like the opposite of me. Guys who make passes at anyone and will fuck anything, anytime, anywhere, spend money to make it happen if they need, and they always seem to be in fucked up situations. They burned bridges between them and their best friends, spent money that could've improved their lives on drinks in exchange for 2 minute conversations with girls, ruined decent relationships for fat girl sex, some even alienated pretty much everyone around from them. Are their notch counts higher than mine? Most likely. But they really have no true friends left and are verbally bashed by almost everyone they've ever associated with. They can always move on, but I like my friends, my home, my entire way of life really. The way I see it is there's no need to have to pick up and grow new roots just for some pussy.

chewy_dragee · 2015-04-24T11:11:27+00:00

Personal codes and honor are a hypocrites game.

yell0mell0 · 2015-04-24T15:22:44+00:00

Flip the question. Instead of thinking how your code limits you, see how you can make it help you. Reputation is key and can follow you if you plan it be it in business or personal life. And if a time comes where your code is no longer profitable, viewing codes through this lens makes it much easier to switch it up

scamper_22 · 2015-04-24T17:19:17+00:00

What fuels your 'moral' behavior differs vastly from person to person.

Maybe you get it from religion/God. Others get it from ethics, philosophy, wisdom...

TRP is actually pretty telling of this. Why should a girl not have fun and screw as many guys as she wants? The answer you get from religious girls (Muslim community) is that it is a sin. For many it stops there. That is probably why many girls from religious communities are so screwed up if they deviate a little, they deviate a lot.

Well guess what any girl wandering around this TRP is going to find out. You don't need to believe in God or sin to value your virginity/sexuality. If your long term goals as a woman are to find a decent husband and have a successful marriage, you should not sleep around. Most guys don't value that in marriage material.

What does the guy have to gain from marrying a used up girl and then gets her just in time to get her pregnant and work his ass off supporting her so she can play house? Not to mention the risk/complications in your life. Guys don't mind being alone.

So you see how a previous 'God' command of ethical behavior gets turned into practical goal oriented life advice.

We've been living as a human species for thousands of years. Our cultural norms and instincts are there for a reason.

Lie and people won't trust you. Betray and people won't trust you. Trust allows you to work cooperatively with people and have a better life.

In the end, I'd say most moral codes are really our collective wisdom of long term value as opposed to following short term gains.

Sure, I can bang a married woman and get an hour of pleasure. But the long term pain/guilt, and potential problems that could arise are much higher. Maybe her husband finds out and takes it out on me. Maybe this becomes the norm and then I'm paranoid of what people are doing with my gf... Sure, I can rip someone off as a business man, but they won't be repeat customers...

You can look at the world of sociopaths and think they win. You know what, they top sociopaths probably do appear to win. But life is playing the odds to an extent. Maybe if you're in the top 1% of ruthless sociopaths, maybe your life is good and you win. But if you're not, I don't know too many satisfied sociopaths. Most of them end up with pretty shitty lives.

The 'ideal' as I've come to see it is to be moral, but ruthless. Be good, but not be nice. Be selfish, but not exploitative.

makethemwant · 2015-04-24T11:24:36+00:00

Neural etwork perspective here.

We're all connected. As biologically programmed social animals, we are necessarily sensitive to the well-being of those around us. Facial and gross motor gestures from others activate our mirror neurons which activate emotional responses. Pheromones also likely play an effect. Our ability to imagine what someone else is thinking is likely an evolutionary adaptation. By chemically rewarding us for caring about each other, our lizards, and the brain network they use, ensure that we form communities which care about each other. Fundamentally, then, by being true and caring to people in your "in" group, you get a real and valuable (chemical) reward which is more valuable than the chemicals (emotions) you get when your bank balance hits a certain number.

From the conscious perspective, we perceive that we want to do what is moral (what the group agrees is ethical behavior) because it "feels like the right thing to do". However, the reason it feels that way is because the lizard made it so. If our lizards allowed us to break tribe rules and risk ostracization at the slightest possibility of increasing personal benefit, then too many people would be ostracized and humans wouldn't be social animals.

Something like that.

As for punishment by God. This idea is a cultural tool which is useful for amplifying the naturally occurring aversion to unethical behavior (which the lizard understands to be anything that the tribe might not agree with).

Bellum00 · 2015-04-24T10:03:07+00:00

I'm a Christian but I don't fear God's might as much as I dread disappointing God (and myself) by not measuring up to the challenge of this unjust world. If I didn't believe God's way - be good even if it kills you - to be right I wouldn't follow it, even if I would be smitten into hell.

Also, not doing evil is not enough, you have to do good because you believe in good.

Ultimately, God wants you to be like Him, not some groveling fearful sycophant.

Title	Justifications for honor and personal codes.
Author	RPMan1
Upvotes	3
Comments	39
Date	April 24, 2015 9:42 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/33p1hi/justifications_for_honor_and_personal_codes/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/justifications-for-honor-and-personal-codes.31795 https://theredarchive.com/post/31795

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