Men Should Not Help Sluts

[–]FortunateBum 38 points39 points40 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]misanthropeguy 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

2 years ago I (33)was working at a pizza place and one of the girls there (18/19) was basically the town slut, (she was a nice girl, but wow was she ever narcissistic - but in a more passive way, she wasn't too obnoxious about it, but the only topic that ever interested her, was her, and when she drank, and she loved to drink, she became super-slut)

Anyway, I picked her up twice from random guys houses when she called me drunk and full of regret. The first time she tried to blow me in the car on the way home, and I told her no. (I have a wife and I don't need that kind of drama) and the second time she was crying about how she wants to be a good girl but it's so hard blah blah... so I gave her a very stern lecture.

I told her that if she is going to be a slut, that she needs to do it with eyes open otherwise she would spend the rest of her life regretting it. I told her that if she is going to be a slut that no one is going to respect her, ever. And I told her that was the last time I would do that for her.

She called me a 3rd time and I told her no. After that I swear she was head over heals in love with me, but I don't have time for silly drunken sluts. Though to be honest, she was really hot.

[–]closetothesilence 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Abroh 23 points24 points25 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 12 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]misanthropeguy -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[+]alias-of-a-girl -8 points-7 points-6 points 12 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

[–]RedPillScare 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[+]alias-of-a-girl -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]misanthropeguy 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]alias-of-a-girl -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Whether a girl sleeps around is obviously important to a guy who is interested in having a relationship with her.

If you want in a monogamous relationship with her, then you have to trust her not to continue sleeping around once that relationship starts. And if you don't trust her to do that, why the fuck do you want a relationship with her in the first place?

This is such a huge double standard. Why can guys get away with sleeping around but a girl who does it is a slut? You can not want to date a girl who sleeps around all you want, your preferences are your preferences. But her behaviour does not make her a bad person and it sure as fuck doesn't mean she has to sit around and take your stone-age judgments of her.

You obviously don't like it but promiscuous women are not considered good people to have monogamous relationships with. It's just reality.

By who? You say that like it's a standard opinion. It's not. Your ideal woman is not necessarily the ideal of everyone, and it sure as hell doesn't inform the way women behave. News flash: none of us give a fuck about you or what you want. You need to prove yourself worthy of caring about before anyone will start to care. That's the truth of every relationship ever, whether it be friendships, romantic relationships or whatever else.

[–]misanthropeguy 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If you want in a monogamous relationship with her, then you have to trust her not to continue sleeping around once that relationship starts. And if you don't trust her to do that, why the fuck do you want a relationship with her in the first place?

This is such a huge double standard. Why can guys get away with sleeping around but a girl who does it is a slut? You can not want to date a girl who sleeps around all you want, your preferences are your preferences. But her behaviour does not make her a bad person and it sure as fuck doesn't mean she has to sit around and take your stone-age judgments of her.

I'm sorry that I upset you. I should have said 'in general' to each of my statements about women. I agree it's a double standard, everyone knows that, I'm not suggesting that this hypocrisy regarding men vs women's behaviour is necessarily a good thing, I'm just stating that it is reality. I totally agree that if a man has a problem with a woman being promiscuous that it is basically an issue of trust, and in a perfect world it would never be an issue. But we don't live in a perfect world and people are hypocritical.

You obviously don't like it but promiscuous women are not considered good people to have monogamous relationships with. It's just reality.

By who? You say that like it's a standard opinion. It's not. Your ideal woman is not necessarily the ideal of everyone, and it sure as hell doesn't inform the way women behave. News flash: none of us give a fuck about you or what you want. You need to prove yourself worthy of caring about before anyone will start to care. That's the truth of every relationship ever, whether it be friendships, romantic relationships or whatever else.

By who? Let's be honest, most traditional cultures are very hard on women, hell a large part of the world women have no rights at all and are seen as the property of men. (Before you jump down my throat, I do not support this at all. But it is reality.) it is only the most progressive and open societies that work to accept women's sexuality and towards acceptance and less judgement towards them.

But those places are rare and as it turns out, that kind of sexual equality - where men and women are treated the same - doesn't work. People end up naturally going against it, and this entire sub-reddit is about countering that progressive change because it ends up being more destructive than what it is trying to replace. The point of the whole red pill theory here is that a lot of the traditional gender roles actually work better for people because women and men are different. And denying that fact is destructive.

[–]alias-of-a-girl -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But those places are rare and as it turns out, that kind of sexual equality - where men and women are treated the same - doesn't work.

Who says? I've never actually seen a place where men and women are actually and truly treated as equals. And the places that come the closest are the ones that seem to me to be the best places to live.

Gender roles suck. Men and women are different because people are different. You can't talk to half the world's population as if we're all the same, because we're NOT. I'm a female programmer, and if I'd been born a generation ago, I would never have been allowed into the university programs I've attended (and I mean STEM stuff, not programming specifically, since that's a new thing) because of your precious gender roles.

Why is it such a foreign idea to such a large group of people that I might actually want to be treated as a person instead of as an object for you to own? The problem I have with the attitude of this subreddit is that you're countering a change because you claim to know what will happen if you don't... but you have no fucking idea, because no one has done it before. You're all afraid of change because it's different, because it means you're no longer in control of me and the rest of the women in your society, not because you think you can see the future.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[+]alias-of-a-girl -8 points-7 points-6 points 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Having monogomous sex as part of a marriage is extremely healthy -- in fact, essential for the health of the marriage. Having monogomous sex as part of a serious, committed relationship with a future isn't too bad either.

Having random recreational sex with lots and lots of people is extremely unhealthy for your psyche. Even forgetting the STD and pregnancy risks for a moment. It's damaging behavior.

It also demonstrates a complete lack of discipline and impulse control, narcissistic and self-gratifying tendencies, and a very poor attitude toward love, sex, and relationships that speaks very negatively about an individual's ability to have healthy and successful future relationships. Sure, there are exceptions, but overall, society thinks negatively about this behavior because it's negative behavior. Not because all of society is wrong and stupid, while sluts are actually admirable heroes worthy of receiving medals for having the bravery to go out there and fuck people outside of the context of a relationship with a future.

Nobody wants to date or marry somebody undisciplined and self-important who has poor impulse control and an unhealthy attitude and history regarding love, sex, and relationships. Nobody normal, anyway. There are plenty of loser guys out there who can't do any better and end up marrying sluts. So it's not hopeless for our slutty heroes. It's just not the future they've always imagined for themselves.

[+]alias-of-a-girl -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

You're making a lot of unfounded assumptions here.

Having random recreational sex with lots and lots of people is extremely unhealthy for your psyche. Even forgetting the STD and pregnancy risks for a moment. It's damaging behavior.

It also demonstrates a complete lack of discipline and impulse control, narcissistic and self-gratifying tendencies, and a very poor attitude toward love, sex, and relationships that speaks very negatively about an individual's ability to have healthy and successful future relationships.

You have no proof of ANY of that. In fact, my experience speaks to the exact OPPOSITE of this.

Nobody wants to date or marry somebody undisciplined and self-important who has poor impulse control and an unhealthy attitude and history regarding love, sex, and relationships.

And while that's true, I don't think promiscuity indicates any of that, and your belief that it does is completely unfounded.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Let me walk you through this: “I’m a girl at a bar or club, and I just met this cute guy. I’m single. I don’t really want a relationship with this guy – I don’t like him that much. But he’s really hot and sex with him would feel awesome!”

“I understand that even if we use contraceptives, there is still a small chance of pregnancy and a small chance of transmission of sexually-transmitted diseases. I don’t care. I want this because it feels good, both physically and emotionally.”

“I understand that society thinks very negatively about people who have sex recreationally, outside of the context of a serious relationship or marriage. I don’t care. I want this because it feels good, both physically and emotionally.”

“I understand that future boyfriends may not think as highly of me if I have a large number of previous sexual partners, especially if a number of those partners were just random sex with no intention of any kind of relationship. I don’t care. I want this because it feels good, both physical and emotionally.”

“I understand that this sexual encounter will not turn into a future relationship, it will not generate relationship prospects for me, it will not generate professional prospects for me, it will not improve my physical or psychological fitness, it will not make me money – frankly, I will derive no benefit from this sexual encounter except that it will feel good.”

“I even understand that I am a little bit lonely and lack self-confidence, and having sex with men like this helps me to feel better about myself, but at the same time, it prevents me from working on the underlying issues and truly improving my life. I don’t care. This will feel good.”

“I have therefore come to the well-reasoned decision that I am going to do what feels good, despite the lack of any benefit and the existence of potential consequences, many of them significant.”

That is the very definition of undisciplined, impulsive, indulgent narcissism.

[+]alias-of-a-girl -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I want this because it feels good, both physical and emotionally.

OH FUCKING NO! A woman wants to do something she might actually enjoy! IT'S THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD!

Oh wait. That's what everyone always does.

I'll be honest, if someone went through all the pros and cons of a given decision like that every time they made a decision, the world would be a better place. What you've shown here is the exact OPPOSITE of undisciplined and impulsive.

I am going to do what feels good, despite the lack of any benefit

Feeling good is a pretty damned significant benefit, given that it's the reason most people do anything.

“I even understand that I am a little bit lonely and lack self-confidence, and having sex with men like this helps me to feel better about myself, but at the same time, it prevents me from working on the underlying issues and truly improving my life. I don’t care. This will feel good.”

And this is one HELL of an assumption. Why assume that women who sleep around have underlying issues? Maybe they just enjoy it.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

OH FUCKING NO! A woman wants to do something she might actually enjoy!

Just because you have the right to do something doesn't make it a good decision.

Feeling good is a pretty damned significant benefit

It would feel good to punch my boss, drive over cyclists who insist on riding their goddamn bicycles downtown, drink a bottle or three of good scotch every day, drop my pants and masturbate whenever the urge strikes me, eat junk food and gain 200 pounds, piss out my tenth story window, drag a cute co-worker of mine by the hair into the stairwell and fuck her brains out (which might take awhile since I just masturbated a few clauses ago), rob a few convenience stores because having money feels good while working doesn't, and maybe end the day with a few hours of video games while my wife cares for our daughter because taking care of my kid is hard work while video games make me feel good.

Feeling good is nice, but alongside any consequence of any significance, feeling good isn't much of a benefit. I would feel very, very good if I quit my job right now, and I have enough savings that I wouldn't feel the pain of that for a little while. So if I'm not thinking long-term, that seems like a great decision. Likewise, a woman who's not thinking long-term might think it's a great decision to fuck 100 strangers because it feels good.

Why assume that women who sleep around have underlying issues? Maybe they just enjoy it.

People have sex to connect with another human being. If it was just about the orgasm, everybody would masturbate to avoid dealing with human bullshit and the risk of pregnancy/disease. Diving into recreational sex with another human to feel that connection, fully knowing it's not lasting or real, is a sign of deeper issues. But even if you ignore that one clause you cherry-picked to answer, there are numerous other very significant consequences to being a slut.

[–]alias-of-a-girl-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What, you don't think actual intercourse feels better than masturbation? Have you never actually had sex? Of course it does! It's WAY more enjoyable than masturbation! Plus it's fun to have it with someone you get along with, even if you aren't necessarily interested in a long-term exclusive relationship.

Just because you aren't personally interested in casual sex doesn't make it evil and unhealthy. THAT's a way more unhealthy attitude to have than any attitude concerning casual sex.

And when I said we all do things because we enjoy it, I didn't mean immediate enjoyment. I might not necessarily like killing myself at the gym, but it feels damn good afterwards and that's worth it to me. Whether it's for enjoyment now or later, enjoyment is basically always the reason people do something. Give to charity? It makes me happy to know that people who need something are being provided for. I'm not going to rob a store because I know it would be an unpleasant experience for the clerk and I don't enjoy causing other people pain, and I also don't find the risk of jail or fine, which would be extremely unenjoyable, to be worthwhile.

Enjoyment isn't necessarily a short-term thing. If someone decides that they're not interested in working towards some long-term gain tonight and want instead to having some immediate enjoyment by having sex, more power to them. That you can't wrap your head around the idea of being able to use sex as an enjoyable activity (like, say, watching a movie or something else that doesn't necessarily give a long-term benefit) it baffling. Why treat it like something other than what it is, an activity to be enjoyed? Just because you don't want to engage in it with someone you're not in a relationship with doesn't mean that people who do are wrong or bad. Different strokes and all that. No need to be so judgmental.

[–]Archwinger3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We're not talking about right and wrong here. We're talking about good decisions versus bad decisions.

A woman can have sex with whoever she wants, whenever she wants, as long as her partner is willing and at least the age of majority. It's not illegal, it's her right, she's not hurting anybody, and there's nothing "wrong" being done.

This does not mean that doing so is a good decision.

Sex carries the risk of STDs. Women have the risk of getting pregnant. Those aren't my rules -- take that one up with God.

Society doesn't care for sluts. Women shame them. Men fuck them but don't commit. In most cases, they have a fun youth but a far more difficult future. Again, not my rules. That's just how it is.

People go crazy trying to justify doing whatever feels good (really good! Like even better than masturbation good!) -- like the very fact that something feels good and isn't illegal are the only two criteria that make something a great decision. If you have to explain and rationalize a shitty decision, because everybody pisses all over it the moment they hear it, it probably wasn't the best decision.

[–]alias-of-a-girl0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

See, to me, a good decision is the decision made by a person who has weighed the pros and cons of something and then made a sound decision based on that. So what if a woman puts greater emphasis on her pleasure than she does on what other people think of her? And so long as she's safe about her sex, maybe she's decided that the pleasure is worth the minimal risk of pregnancy/STDs - that's not unreasonable. If people decided not to do anything that involved risk, we'd never get out of bed in the morning.

If other people require that she explain and rationalize a decision that she's made, they're shitty people. If they can't expect her to behave like an adult and weigh the pros and cons of doing something, then maybe she shouldn't be spending time with people who treat her like a child. It's not her that's the problem in this case. I'm not saying that friends shouldn't question it when friends make a bad decision, but immediately attacking a decision for being bad when they don't know the specifics is just a demeaning and stupid as blindly agreeing with everything a person does.

[–]isthatyourdaughter1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]alias-of-a-girl0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Archwinger4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]alias-of-a-girl0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Archwinger4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Those are two divergent paragraphs.

Let's agree that having recreational sex outside of the context of a relationship or marriage, purely for fun and physical enjoyment, has nothing to do with feeling good long-term in the future (like going to college or going to the gym). Recreational sex is a here-and-now, immediate gratification thing.

Let's agree that, right or wrong, society frowns upon girls who have large amounts of recreational sex outside of the context of a relationship or marriage, as do future boyfriends and spouses. Sure not everyone, but a lot of people -- enough that it's fair to state that an extended period of recreational sex is going to limit your options in the future (unless you hide it, but if you're going to have to lie about your choices in the future, why do them, right?)

Prioritizing fleeting physical pleasure, because you wanna -- because you have the RIGHT! -- because anybody who thinks you're wrong to do so is stupid and society is all fucked up and you should be able to do whatever you want -- that is NOT a healthy attitude. That's the same attitude of a drunk, of a drug user, and of a guy who plays video games all day in his mom's basement instead of getting a job. All of these people have problems -- they're making bad choices with bad consequences. Sluts aren't any different.

[–]alias-of-a-girl-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Prioritizing fleeting physical pleasure, because you wanna -- because you have the RIGHT! -- because anybody who thinks you're wrong to do so is stupid and society is all fucked up and you should be able to do whatever you want -- that is NOT a healthy attitude.

See, that's where I would disagree. Deciding to do something that is causing no objective harm to yourself regardless of what other people think is very healthy. It is, in fact, how we gained the right to do a lot of things. It's how black people gained the right to sit at the front of the bus, as an example. Those aren't bad choices. And I don't have to pretend to give even the tiniest number of fucks about anyone who wants to look down on me for making those decisions.

Because here's the thing: if every man in the world decided that 'sluts' aren't worth marrying, then fuck it, I'll stay single. I wouldn't want to date anyone who's that hypocritical.

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Ok so if eventually looking to score with the person you are helping out, sure you could be door matted and forgotten, but if that isn't your ultimate agenda, and you are just being a decent human being... I don't know, I am new here, so not going to pretend I am 100% up on this stuff.

It just seems to me the most important and key part of the red pill is a high evaluation and connectedness with self. It feels like there are a few camps within the TRP community, one is beta and slut shaming and focused on getting their dick wet, and the other is about being the man you want to be, and how to navigate a world that seemingly is out to destroy that archetype, while invariably responding positively when it cant, and then variations of the two.

So I the way I relate to the story personally is, I too wouldn't have gone and given them a ride. Haylee's involvement to me would have been immaterial as it was apparent haylee's white knight friend could have sorted the issue out without me having it get involved and I couldn't be assed to deal with a bunch of drunk people. If it were a close friend in need, male or female, sure absolutely. So the source of my action comes from within. It is about not allowing anyone else's wants and needs to trump mine. And when it is a close friend, than it aligns with my wants and needs (as I am not a sociopath and am connected to certain fellow human beings), so I would help.

Someone mentioned in another thread the concept of the benevolent alpha. I quite like that. A good friend, and positive contributor to the community, but at the end of the day, has iron resolve in staying true to self. Thoughts on if I am missing something fundamental?

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They're not Masters degrees, but I do have BAs in Sociology and Psychology (as well as Metallurgy and Computer Science BS degrees).

Dysfunctional behavior, as applied to individuals, isn't a normally used term. 'Dysfunctional' applies to family unit or group relationships, not individuals. Couples can have co-dependencies. Individuals may have addictions or an untreated mentally illness.

It is possible to have a dysfunctional society, one that neglects or directly abuses individuals and groups within that society. A dysfunctional family occurs if individual or co-dependent parents continually and regularly abuse or neglect children or other dependent family members.

If individuals are not abusing themselves or directly harming others, they're not dysfunctional.

Independent competent adults get to choose who they associate with, thus defining their own social group. If you don't like someone's response to you, don't associate with them.

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Title	Men Should Not Help Sluts
Author	mayonesa
Upvotes	146
Comments	110
Date	March 2, 2014 5:07 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1zctjr/men_should_not_help_sluts/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/men-should-not-help-sluts.230979 https://theredarchive.com/post/230979

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