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Red beard: The perfect example of understanding frame

CrookedSmileeeee
June 9, 2015
43 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill
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Post Information
Title Red beard: The perfect example of understanding frame
Author

CrookedSmileeeee
Upvotes 43
Comments 46
Date June 9, 2015 1:03 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/395ovh/red_beard_the_perfect_example_of_understanding/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/red-beard-the-perfect-example-of-understanding.33440
https://theredarchive.com/post/33440
Red Pill terms in post
framethe red pill

Comments

[–]sundaybrunch116 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

very nice. i learn better by seeing things. do you mind posting more examples?

[–]CrookedSmileeeee[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Glad this way can help people, i will surely do, thanks.

[–]dam-rondabouts8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And here is some ballsy red pill blues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_TjpoHOJc

[–]Apostrophe9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Since we're sharing examples of masculine men in film, we have to include this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM8iT1UHnjI

(The difference between fake masculinity and real masculinity in under 5 minutes.)

[–]somejackarse11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Real masculinity = having a gun handy. Got it.

[–]Apostrophe2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was thinking more along the lines of :

fake masculinity = showing off, peacocking, pretending you are more than you are, pretending you can handle shit when in reality you can't. Also, looking for trouble due to a need to show what a tough guy you are.

real masculinity = not pretending to be more than what you are. Being able to actually handle shit. Also, being prepared for trouble in case it comes looking for you.

(Just my 0.02€)

[–]magus6780 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

His frame was strong, and the dialogue pretty sweet and all, but this.

If he didn't have a gun he would've been stomped into the ground.

[–]occupythekitchen0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

the gun is the pill it's how you use it that matters

[–]TeamRoastPork0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Real masculinity = Being able to back up your words with action. This can be done with fighting ability, experience, or in this case, a gun.

For example, Conor McGregor has some rock solid frame, but if Jose Aldo whoops him this next fight, all that talk won't mean shit.

[–]SchulzArmy 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Man I have to rewatch this movie. Clint's a beast.

[–]CrookedSmileeeee[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

American Sniper is pretty TRP aswell but gran torino is a solid example of a TRP nam veteran.

[–]trpobserver0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mifune/Kurosawa are the best

[–]colucci0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Very offtopic, but where in Greece are you from?

I went to see Athens in the past year. I've been to a lot of european cities but for some reason I absolutely fell in love in Athens. I wish I could live there but unfortunately I don't speak the language :(

[–]Myrpl1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not OP but I'm from Athens. If you haven't visited any Greek islands yet you're missing quite a lot.

[–]colucci0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Been to Mykonos and Crete. Absolutely beautiful indeed, but I think Athens takes the cake. The islands are a nice vacation spot but I'm a city person, I'd rather stay around big cities to live.

[–]Brave_Horatius1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No reason you can't. Most of us in euroland speak enough English that you should get by the first few months it'll take to learn some conversational Greek. Point in case: know a girl from cali that went to Germany to live and study with nothing but a phrasebook to start with.

[–]colucci0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If I want to be a hippy, live in hostels and work odd jobs, I can do that.

To work in any professional field that gets you good money, you'll need to know the language of the country very well.

I can't go to Greece, and expect to find a job in Finance in english with just minor greek.

[–]mikeshinobi 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

God damn that was beautiful.

[–]InferiousX0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My personal favorite example is Marshal Dillon of Gunsmoke.

He manages the town calmly, handles trouble when it comes up, and rarely loses his temper. Even when someone's threatening his life. He maintains a level of stoic "calm yet ready" poise in every difficult situation.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

No examples from fiction.

[–]CrookedSmileeeee[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And you decided to remove this from front page?

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

[–]RickJamesBond 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. There was a post yesterday about Gran Torino that should have also been removed.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you don't report it, I might not notice it.

[–]CrookedSmileeeee[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Why is it so bad to give example from film?

[–]RickJamesBond 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It is simply irrelevant, as the characters in the story don't play by the rules of reality. Generally, younger and less experienced TRP members feel the need to post such things.

[–]CrookedSmileeeee[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I see your point, will not post in the future anything like that. Although I would encourage TRP to watch existentialism movies cause is really TRP.

[+]hamstercide-20 points-19 points-18 points 11 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

How is this redpill? He just wasted a lot of medicine. I would have hit her hard from the first go.

[–]CrookedSmileeeee[S] 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Let's assume you are not trolling, read some sidebar and start meditating.

[–]larrythetomato11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because men don't get angry at sick children. She is sick and acting like a child, he held frame like a champ.

[–][deleted] 6 points6 points6 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]hamstercide-4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Have the SJWs taken over or is it cultural difference? Where I come from, this would have been an acceptable response. Example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNTw6kG4zTQ#t=2h4m

No translation, but the context is the farmer's lazy sons don't want to get to work and talk back to him after he tried to convince them a first time. Action starts around 2h6m.

Considering that it's the pre-modern era in the Kurosawa film, I expected "Red Beard" to slap his brat into submission right away rather than trying repeatedly to offer her the medicine like some imbecile. I've heard that "the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again while expecting different results".

[–][deleted] 8 points8 points8 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]hamstercide-3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Explain to me how the interaction would end if he just beat her into submission?

She'd be in tears and would take the medicine. Next time she'd know not to act out like a spoiled brat, out of fear. Remember the scene in Full Metal Jacket where GySgt. Hartman literally strangles Pvt. Pyle to get that smirk off his face? Yeah.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points4 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]hamstercide0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are not men but that doesn't excuse their behaviour when they get out of line. The same goes with children. Didn't know you Americucks were so uptight about a slap on the wrist.

[–]hamstercide-4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

A man who has to use violence to get others to do what he wants is a man who isn't respected or valued enough for the people he has around him. If he was the alpha male of the family, they would respect him and want to help him and take pride in doing so.

Maybe in your Disney movies. In the animal kingdom, for example in gorilla troops, the definition of "alpha" is the male that can beat the shit out of the other males until he is ousted. Think about that for a moment. His position is defined by physical violence.

I see a half assed man that has little control of his family and no respect as he has done nothing to earn it. He has to beat his kids into submission. He isn't alpha, he's spineless.

Them's fightin' words. Let's see you say that to his (or my) face. In the movie (or novella) he has done plenty to earn respect, but he isn't recognized for it by his foolish sons.

If you lose ur shit like that, you aren't holding frame, you aren't being dominant, you are reaction off emotions like a woman.

Emotions aren't bad. They exist to help us survive. I've seen it stated here often that men should flash their anger every now and then and that it turns their spouses on, that you should learn to fight and defend yourself, and that kids facing bullies should fight back rather than listening to the feminized "just ignore them" advice.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+]hamstercide-7 points-6 points-5 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You don't beat the shit out of a girl to get her to submit to you.

If you can beat the shit out of a male, it's implied that you can beat the shit out of a female. You think the silverback asks the female nicely if she wants to fuck? No, he overpowers her.

hurr ur a troll

Please.

[–]KingoftheAssholes1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So you're a gorilla? I have so many questions first how did you learn how to type?

[–]nodiggity9721 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You took the whole alpha thing a bit too seriously. When your mother makes bad food might as well beat the shit out of her?

[–]LC27756 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I hope you're trolling because that made me laugh.

[–]1DRMMR763 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Only a fool thinks a man's most useful tool is violence. A man's mind is the most powerful weapon he has. Hitting her would not only have been wrong, it would have been a defeat for the man. Wrong because to initiate violence in and of itself is wrong, and because to use violence against sick and helpless person is depraved. But it would have also been a defeat. She would have learned nothing. She would not have learned respect, nor that he is trying to help. He would have only turned her even more against him, to be acted out on a future date. By using his mind and showing her how strong his will was, she understood that he was not going to back down, ever. I think he would have remade bowl after bowl of that medicine all day until she finally took it willingly. And that is the lesson of holding frame. Keep to what you know is right, use your mind and an iron will, and what is right will be in the end. Notice that she used a form of violence against him first. Nothing harmful, but the act of slapping something else out of another's hand is itself violent. Why then should he operate in her frame and sink down to that level. The essence of holding frame is to not let the words or actions of other change how you think or act, unless it is absolutely necessary.

And as an aside, if you're going to even joke about hitting a sick woman in need of help, get the fuck off TRP. That's what the feminists feel we're all about. It's not actually what we're about at all. The true enlightened Red Pill man knows that violence is always a last resort, and only to oppose other violence. Men are supposed to be better than that. If you can't understand that, get the hell out before you give the feminazis more bullshit fuel to use against us. That talk is not welcome here.

[–]hamstercide-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

he would have learned nothing. She would not have learned respect, nor that he is trying to help.

Classical conditioning. She would have learned to obey an authority figure. Not trying to get all edgy, but Macchiavelli wrote that if you have to choose between being feared and loved, it is better to be feared.

Why then should he operate in her frame and sink down to that level.

I don't see it like that. With quick, decisive force (nothing outrageous) he could have broken her frame with the palm of his hand I believe that's where expressions like "knock some sense back into him" come from. In the very recent past corporal punishment for children and women, and fatal duels among men for social slights were commonplace. Then again maybe you are right and I have some learning to do.

[–]6482621 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Macchiavelli wrote that if you have to choose between being feared and loved, it is better to be feared.

This is the core of what you and those you disagree with are discussing. The path to your goal can be through both these. One of the outcomes is that they either love or fear you as well as fulfilling your goal.

According to Machiavelli the best path is the one that ends with the additional fear. This doesn't mean that the other path is useless, and I would argue that both paths have their place. I don't want my family to fear me, but I would feel safer if the local street thug did.

[–]1DRMMR760 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not trying to get all edgy, but Macchiavelli wrote that if you have to choose between being feared and loved, it is better to be feared.

True, he did. I believe he was wrong.

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