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[–]BigSnips 25 points26 points27 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sounds like you've "started."
You need to go out and start talking to women IRL. It's the only way.
It's not easy but it's worth it.
[–]jeremyjack33 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
Read Models, by Mark Manson. It's the only book you really need.
[–][deleted] 8 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I wouldn’t bother with Mystery Method. If you want a good outer game book I recommend checking Tao of Badass out.
Models is great for teaching how to develop quality relationships in your life, by being a better person (inner game).
Tao of Badass is good for simplifying the process of attraction itself. It teaches how/when to banter, push/pulling body language as an example. It’s to make you a more attractive individual externally (outer game).
Other than reading those two, the rest of your development is going to come from first hand experience. Those books are great for setting your mind in the right place, by making you more socially aware. But you have to learn your style to maintain congruence, and figure out what works for you.
[–]ls737100 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for this reference, read Tao twice last night, love what's in it, not just for pickup.
[–]hunterpua 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
The Tao of Badass. Yes. Fuck yes!
That's also what the girls you bang will be saying.
[–]SoliDeoGloria1750 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Who is the author, Christopher James? I'm interested in reading.
[–]hunterpua 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Joshua Pellicer
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Is it that 67$ thing you can order online? Since I can't find a book or anything else. Is it worth that much money actually?
[–]hunterpua 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Josh actually quit to pursue other things so maybe most of his products have been pulled but the Tao of Badass was definitely an ebook.
But $67 is too small a price for anything this man has made. Its beyond worth it.
[–]jeremyjack33 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Yes. Mystery method is basically about putting on an act and being someone your not. Models focuses on getting in touch with yourself and becoming genuinely attractive and confident.
[–]janowski_d 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Game is about getting sex. This means optimizing different variables to get sex.
Models is not a game book, it's self improvement book. Reading it won't help anyone get laid in a nightclub. Mystery Method would.
People confuse game with self-help nowdays too much, blurring the lines. And while I see the point, reading Models won't help anyone's nightgame basically at all. Suggesting that as the only book is absurd imho.
[–]jeremyjack33 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Mystery method is old and most of the techniques were exposed years ago. It's pretty much worthless at this point.
Models helps people build a solid frame, and develop their own inner game. Outer game means nothing, if you don't build a solid frame.
[–]janowski_d 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
Mystery Method is old but still holds various things that are true in game nowdays. You clearly haven't read the book, while many tactics such as routines, peacocking or opinion opens are outdated, the basic model still holds true.
The model of Open Hook Vibe Close and how to proceed each step is still the main model of game in any nightclub setting and that alone is more valuable than anything taught in Models, purely from game basis
I would recommend Pimp by Julien as the best game learning resource nowdays as it's just mystery method improved to current standards with things like self amusement replacing old opinions and routines
I disagree Inner Game is more important than Outer Game. I see tons of people that have confidence but don't know how to go from talking to a girl to taking her home and closing. Models teaches nothing of it.
[–]Robdata510 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Pimp by Julien is some vague rah rah bullshit. It’s like a very high over view of what game is but lacks any of the real fundamentals behind female attraction. He glosses over critical components of game like qualification and investment. And if you’re not getting the girl to qualify somewhat your not getting laid. RSD is heavy on the inner game and assuming that alone can get you laid but they’re act like an idiot state based high vibrational energy bullshit game won’t get you laid consistently.
[–]janowski_d 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Well I wouldn't say it's great I concur, but it's way better start than Models when it comes to scoring in nightclubs, and that was my main point. It teaches the basic model well enough which is the most important thing to start with imho. Things like qualifcation can be built upon it, but at least you got solid base.
I would agree that Pimp is not enough, I would include Todd for more advanced principles hes very grounded dude that is not alike rest of RSD crowd and Jeffy to understand verbal/humour part of the game.
[–]Robdata510 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thats the whole point..RSD does not teach you the key parts of game so how would anyone know where to look? A newbie is going to look at his results and when he doesn't have any go back watching more RSD. Todd already broke it down excellently on why this kind of game only gets you the girls you're naturally use to getting. RSD is great for getting 6's and 7's but you wont attract the true 8's, 9's and if you're not running tight technical game forget about the 10's. For a newbie it's almost imperative to not waste your time with RSD's crap and go for a more technical understanding of what game is really about.
[–]NoloRadio 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate nightclubs and don't have much desire to attract the kind of 'club girls' that Mystery was apparently all about, but the core principles of things like 'peacocking' are very much true and applicable still. The specific examples that were true 20 years ago in LA nightclubs are obviously not in fashion anymore, but that doesn't negate the concept. I used to go to hipster parties and the peacocking thing totally worked there--guys would find some outrageous piece of clothing at a thrift store (say, a high school mascot costume or a crazy hat) and use it as disposable party attire to stand out from the crowd and get hooks from girls who would comment on it, and therefore open themselves up for a joke about the clothing or something else.
Likewise, all the magic trick stuff is played out, but the principle that people want their pleasant self-image confirmed via cold reading is still very true--it's a pretty fundamental fact of human psychology.
Just change the wrapper and people will still buy it. Again, not my bag of tricks at all, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work.
[–]Machiavellyy 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
IMO just read models
[–]yirboy 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most definitely. Models adresses some really fundamental, important topics in life. How to behave basically. It's the one book that's had the biggest impact on me I think.
[–]BigSnips 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Reading isn't going to keep your heart from leaping out of your chest when you start approaching women, only action.
[–]Aghayden 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Models is a great book in terms of mindsets, but it doesn't help much in terms of how to actually go about learning game (which is important, most people get it wrong). For that, I'd recommend Todd V's Winner Game (which is a free online program).
[–]hunterpua 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link
You need to start talking to girls man. Are you still nervous about approaching?
[–][deleted] 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]hunterpua 30 points31 points32 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
Shit, this is gonna be awesome.
Seriously, getting over your nerves is way easier than you think.
Before you start listening to people telling you to do crazy shit "to get over your fear and realize nothing bad can really happen" or "to destroy your ego" you need to understand how people learn.
If you have never seen a fire before how do you learn that it is harmful?
You touch it.
You might not be convinced the first time because it takes a few seconds before the heat sinks in so you touch it again. Still hurts.
You're still pretty curious because you don't really understand this new thing. You try and see what happens if you just stay in a little longer.
Suddenly it hurts like fuck and you pull away aggressively. Now you look at your finger and its got boils and shit.
Now you're like, "fuck that. I'm not touching that thing ever again."
If someone lights a fire next to you, even if its not close enough to burn you, you might get startled because you know it can hurt you.
You get it?
The most important part there is the startle. Why would you get startled if its too far to do you any harm? That's because your brain has created an emotional connection to the fire and decided its something to be feared. Our brains make us fear things that can hurt us.
The good thing about approaching is you're in control of what you want your brain to tell you. You can either do something that will connect approaching to shit emotions or you can do something to connect approaching to awesome emotions.
Lets take a common pickup artist exercise. You walk up to a girl and say, "I don't want to be weird but aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....." basically you just hold the "a" until she walks away.
What do you think the likely reactions are? They might look at you like you're retarded, they might give you a disgusted look, they might laugh at you, they might say "what the fuck?!"
Now ask yourself, is this really what you want your brain to associate with approaching? Do you really want to connect fear or embarrassment to it? Because you will make the connection. It'll be like, "Hey! Whenever I approach I always get bad reactions."
Fuck that. You need to train your brain to expect good reactions when you approach. So instead of "just go out there, fail and learn" or whatever shit someone else might tell you. Go out there and rig the game to win. How? Well you can create situations where it would be weird for people to act like dicks with you. For example, ask for directions. If you ask a hot girl where Subway is and she says she has a boyfriend, who is the weird one? So start with something like that.
Keep in mind this is only to get you started. It might feel good at first to be approaching strangers but the high you get from asking people for directions will die really fast. You need something bigger. So work your way up to giving strangers compliments then walking away.
Why walk away you ask? Because you're rigging the game to win. At first walk away so fast that you don't see how they react. That way at the tiny chance that they might be mean to you, you don't see it. Once you get comfortable start complimenting them and staying long enough to smile at them afterwards but still walk away. Notice they will smile back. A lot of people will be really happy when a random stranger comes up to them and gives them a compliment expecting nothing in return. That's why you walk away, because it almost guarantees people will give you positive responses. Guess what's happening to your brain. Its now thinking, "Man! This approaching strangers thing is awesome! Everyone is just so nice." Guess what that does to your confidence. That's right.
You should feel ecstatic the first time you get to the point where you're complimenting people, smiling, then walking away. Even if you do that to just 5 hot girls you'll be over the moon. I've seen one guy act like he was drunk in my living room after doing that for the first time and he only drank water that day.
At this point you should take advantage of the momentum and instead of walking away add in a tease or a joke after your initial approach. Then you just keep building from there. If you don't know what to say next, walk away while they're still smiling then read a pickup book or ask us here what to do next. If you read a book like Tao of Badass then you'll see the linear progression of an interaction. Just add segment after segment every time you start to feel a little too comfortable.
If you start to think that maybe you aren't really taking enough risks or you're worried that maybe you're a little too hesitant to do or say something and that's holding you back then you can do those crazy embarrassing missions that catapult you far away from your comfort zone. Even if you get embarrassed then you will have a ton of positive evidence stocked up from everything you've done prior in your mind to disprove any negative voices in your head.
[–][deleted] 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]hunterpua 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hmu I wanna hear about that
[–]Vincentzoq 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
you've studied carlos xumas material haven't you?
[–]hunterpua 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Haven't. What I talked about is Classical Conditioning though. Anybody has access to that material.
[–]Aeon199 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm an older guy, and also a loser... is it worth talking/approaching women if you know you lack status and money?
I wish it was as simple as "getting status and money" but for me, with my developmental delay, it's generally not even possible.
Do you know any losers (underaccomplished, crappy or no job, a little awkward) who still get women?
[–]hunterpua 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
I feel you man.
There is something in the pickup and dating community we need to get straight. There are TWO ways a man can get a girl to like him.
What's weird is that the dating community seems to think they're one and the same or can't exist without each other.
Thats why a lot of people who are in similar positions as you are confused whether they should be hopeful or discouraged.
Before I move on, yes. I know people who don't make a lot of money and who aren't genetically or even style-wise good looking. In fact a buddy of mine rides in a rich guy's BMW everyday. The rich guy is someone a girl he'a dating is just leading on and he pretends to be her gay best friend so the rich guy spends his money on him too.
That said, I like to call the two separate factors that attract women passive attraction and active attraction.
Passive attraction is looks, money, fame, status. Its passive because you don't really need to do anything and girls will already be attracted to you.
Active attraction is game. So its everything in your brain that you can use to figure out how to get a girl to like you.
You might think certain situations require passive attraction. Bullshit. You're only getting that impression because most people in the pickup community are hard workers. That might sound good on paper but in reality it puts blinders on them so they don't notice easier opportunities.
For example, lets say you're really attracted to some sort of D-List Celebrity that just happens to be in one of the clubs in your city this week. Obviously she'll be in the VIP area.
Scenario 1. You're a good looking, Instagram famous billionaire like Dan Bilzerian. You just waltz straight into the club without waiting in line, breeze past the VIP security and immediately you're introduced to this hot D list celebrity.
Fair enough
Scenario 2. You're a hard working PUA. You worked on your vocal tonality, your body language is on point, your eye contact breaks for no one, and you can have anyone laughing in 2 minutes. First thing you see is the line to the club. Wait in line? No way, everyone know there will be a celeb in the club so the line goes around the corner. Celeb's gonna be gone by the time you get in. So you talk to the bouncer, you be your normal charismatic self and try to charm him. He dismisses you in less than a minute though so you couldn't even get him to laugh. Can't get in the club. Game over.
Scenario 3. Smart working PUA. Just like everyone else, you hear that your celebrity crush is gonna be in XYZ club tonight. So, at 3pm in the afternoon you're already at the club. No you're not there to wait in line. You walk into the club and ask if you could speak to a manager or a host or something. Once you're speaking to that person be like, "I know your VIP section is gonna be occupied tonight but do you have another section that's pretty exclusive? I have a high profile client coming in and I'm hoping to get him a good spot here." Obviously the host will tell you. "The owners' table" he says. You make a mental note.
You go home, freshen up and head back to the club but you have something special with you, a yellow vest. You know, those things with the neon that maintenance guys or health inspectors wear. You put it on over your clothes and wait for a specific moment when the bouncers are pretty busy dealing with someone in line. You walk by the side of the line to the front then casually ask, "Hey, where's the back entrance?" bouncer tells you and you go. You enter thru the back entrance acting completely normal. Once you're in the club you head to the bathroom, fold up the yellow vest and leave it in there. Now you're in the club. The first thing you do is what? Ask somebody, a promoter or a host, "Where's the Owner's table?" for those that don't know. Different clubs have different names for their exclusive tables and these names are not common knowledge. By simply knowing the name of a table you already make them think that you're supposed to be there or at least are someone that has some sort of business being around that area so you will likely be treated with more respect and be escorted to that table. Now you can use your really good body language, eye contact, tonality, charm and charisma on the owner or some high value guest they have. Guess what, they're only one step away from the booth that the D-list celebrity is in.
Once you're joking and having a good time with the people in the owner's table you act dumb and say, "So what's the big deal over there?" They tell you they have a hot celebrity. Then you make a joke, "No! You're lying" - "Really. I'm serious." - "Alright, alright. Be fun to meet them to see what all the fuss is about" - "Oh I can introduce you"
Bam!
Obviously I shortened a lot of parts just so I don't write novel on this comment but you can imagine how this is doable. I've done things similar to this, my friends have too, you sure as hell can as well.
The only difference between having passive attraction and needing to use active attraction is that passive usually get you to your destination faster but if you're asking if it can be done without much status, looks or money then yes, it just goes a little slower.
By the way, even if you don't care to pickup a celebrity at a club or if you're wondering what about when you get introduced to the celeb, what do you do then? Coz she certainly wont just start sucking your dick once you get introduced to her. That's where you need to understand the psychology behind this. A lot of people focus on being alpha or showing entitlement or acting like they belong but those are just more passive triggers and they're only using these things as vehicles to get a girl to one thing, invest. So why not cut to the chase? Just make her invest anyway. That's where all the influence tactics and classical and operant conditioning come in. If you can make any girl work hard for you whether its to impress you or take care of you or prove themselves to you or whatever, you can get her to be attracted to you.
Think of everything you value in your life, what do they all have in common? You invested in them one way or another whether its your car and house wherein you invested your hard earned cash or your family where you invested tons of emotion through thick & thin. You get her putting in work for you, it doesn't matter if she's a celebrity or just the cute girl that orders a bulletproof coffee at the local cafe you hang out in every afternoon, she will see you as one of the things she values.
So that's my long winded answer to your question.
I know this really doesn't help you in the long run because I basically just said yes and supported my answer so if you want to know the specifics like how you can learn about this stuff yourself then shoot me a private message. I'll be happy to help.
[–]Aeon199 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Appreciate the long answer, you probably took a while to write this. I like that you basically agreed it's possible, but at the same time I must admit we are worlds apart in the way of thinking about things.
I'm just some older loser who is very very close to being shut-out into permavirgin territory for life. I do not function very well; if you want more detail read other posts (it may shock you, to see that someone like me would even be here, given how far removed from any concept of value, passive or active, that I am.)
I would be in ForeverAlone sub if the place wasn't an echo chamber of other autistic guys like me, saying there's no chance in the world a women could ever be interested in them; a lot of suicidal ideation going on in places like that, too, not healthy for me, I deal with those thoughts frequently.
Over here, about 60% of what they preach is leaning toward passive attraction stuff; the other 40% is the active attraction stuff. To have any chance, the "active school" is the one I'd have to learn. I cannot have anything in the passive school, I don't function well enough.
Of course, active attraction is still something I would have great difficulty with. I've been social avoidant for a very long time. You might say "life avoidant" it's really that bad. My social skills are poor, naturally.
Sure at this point some folks go "see a therapist" and wrap it up, let's not do that; therapists don't help folks with invisible disabilities (the fact that I can speak and write well leads folks to think I am able to do more than I can, which is simply wrong, but therapists without autism aren't able to understand.. they aren't trained on it, either.)
[–]DotishGuy 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fuck studying for the test, don't even study the night before. Wing it and make it up as you go along.
Just don't be a fedora lad pls
[–]ImJustSo 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You walk up to a woman and start talking...?
[–]juanappleseed 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah. Fuck all the studying. Just go talk to women
For a solid inner game, read books like Intimate Connections and When Panic Attacks. The later one is not about pick up, but gives you a step by step guide to eliminate self defeating beliefs from a rational perspective.
Only after you start loving yourself unconditionally and feel like you've literally divine powers, start watching old RSD Julien videos. RSD is deeply unpopular on this sub, but Julien's advice will actually get you 10s out there, even if Julien himself gets only 6s and 7s on his infields.
[–]Aghayden 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The short answer is to start going out and approaching women; go to night-clubs, your college campus, or even nearby malls or busy streets- whatever your best options are for locations with a good amount of attractive women.
That's easier said than done though, so you might want to read a book like The Rules of The Game or The Trial:Transform Your Dating Life In Eight Weeks for a step-by-step guide for how to learn game in the field.
For the most part, you want to avoid reading or watching too much content because that can easily turn into mental masturbation, best just to pick up something that's going to teach you how to go out and approach women, and learn from what happens.
[–]EvolveandLearn 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here's what I would recommend. Read Models by Mark Manson, No More Mr Nice Guy, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, workout start doing the stronglift 5x5. Go at least 3 times a week. Start doing yoga on your rest day. EAT healthy!!!, try new things and find out new hobbies to do, learn how to dance (take some classes). Talk to everyone. Get a salon haircut, focus on yourself( learn, read random books, watch random shows, pursue education to get a more fufilling career) never give up, stop making excuses.
[–]great_account 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Go talk to women.
[–]mikeeangelo91 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
read "the game" by Neil strauss and also the mystery method right after, and also watch "keys to the VIP on youtube. super dated, but it helped way back in the day lol, hmu if you need advice.
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