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[–]Worlowt 82 points83 points84 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Most of my issues with dating is coming from a place of self hatred, i often find myself not thinking I’m attractive for anyone even though people have told me I am. My social skills were pretty poor but I’ve improved them a lot over the past few years, I can’t seem to stop picking things out about my face I don’t like and making them a bigger deal then they really are.
[–]TheDevilPutD 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sure I've been there. My realization was that I grew up with an alcoholic father and a mother that was lonely and needy. I didn't get that positive nurturing so I learned that I have to be the quiet good boy in order to not disturb my father. I also wanted to be the opposite of him, so I was extra good, nice and accommodating.
But this give you an obsession with looking perfect. I always had to dress nice, my hair had to be perfect and if it was off, I was distressed. But that's because I believed that I have to project that perfect image in order to be accepted and loved. I suppressed my natural urges, the fact that I am an asshole sometimes and I don't give a fuck about others feelings.
So I made a list of these things that I suppressed and thought I was embarrassed about. And they are things that everyone has deep inside. I would say change your thinking about them. Instead of saying I hate this thing about myself, say "I prefer to have a prettier face, but I don't and so can't do anything about it so I accept it".
Write this down because it is easier than doing in your head. Once you embrace these flaws you have to commit to seeing yourself in a new light. Just tell yourself that "I don't have any problems, I am who I am. Problems exist only in my head, they are an illusion."
[–]miserablesisyphus 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Improve what you can improve. For thousands of years men have written myths, religions, and philosophy on this simple fact - some shit is out of your control. The battle is in trying to determine what is fate/god/predestined and what is something you personally can change. The key is understanding that life is both parts fate and free will. If it was one thing or the other we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Look up Moirai if you're more interested in this topic.
The battle in seduction is analyzing your technique/skills/etc. vs analyzing a woman's behavior. Successful people know what to change, when to give the devil his due and move on to the next, etc.
[–]LucianU 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
See if working with these questions and ideas helps:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19BCxcTlM1loSwpnmZSNtyp_jQsNtDDJS/view
[–]chasingthebread1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This
[–]greatlifeahead 25 points26 points27 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Most of the single guys are in mental prison they have locked themself in. You think that you aren't good enough and there is something wrong with you and women pick that up in your behaviour and they reject you. You get stuck in crying after women that rejected you instead of moving on. You think that you will never find someone and things will never be different so you create feelings for women who don't want you and you don't do the work and approach women and try to meet new people. So you will never find someone who would actually like you back
It is all in your head and you can leave your mental prison whenever you want to. The door isn't locked and the bars aren't real.
[–]TheDevilPutD 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You should be a poet
[–]greatlifeahead 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you!
[–]Worlowt 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Damm dude, got me dead to rights there, I’m always stuck in my head about everything
[–]toroefields12 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you for this. Problem is, ever since high school I’ve been stuck in this mindset. How do I leave this mindset and just be... well be “me”?
You have to change your beliefs. Try those thought experiments I posted.
[–]theforgeproject 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This is true but it doesn’t mean you’re good to go. Knowing who you are, having principles and boundaries, building what you want to build bc you want to build it, knowing how to effectively turn women on without caring 1000% if she says no, all take development and care and self devotion!
[–]greatlifeahead 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes of course you should work on yourself and improve. It is tragic when you see someone who is the same as he was 5 years ago.
I have a female friend who is married to this guy who just plays videogames and works as a security guard. Well this guy is almost 40 now and he still does the same things. He looks sad now. He just sits in the coach and plays games all day and he does the same job he has had since he was 20 and he is getting old now. What a life.
But even with his faults he still has a great girlfriend. He doesn't have to improve because he isn't in a mental prison like most of the guys here.
A good thought experiment is thinking about other areas in your life. For instance think about your job and career. What would you do if you lost your job? You would be confident that you will find a new job because you are good at what you do and you would call potential employers and your friends and ask if they would know a job for you.
Now think about how your job and career would look like if you thought about it like your dating life. You would cry over a job you didn't get. You wouldn't move on and you would keep on trying to get that one job and you would not look elsewhere. You would roll in self pity and how no-one wants to employ you. You would imagine different reasons why you don't have a job. You would start to believe that you aren't employable.
Now think about how your dating life would look like if you thought about it like your work career. You would focus on finding someone you like by being active and meeting as many new people as possible. You would mentally check women out who aren't interested in you. You would do the approaching even if you don't feel like it because you know that is what you have to do to meet someone. Mentally you would think that I am a great fit for any woman and they should be happy to have me.
Another thought experiment is thinking about a James Bond style alphamale and how that man would act. I think a great model is men's fragnance ads. Go watch some in Youtube. They are manly and in a good way. Think about how that guy would act and try to model yourself according to that. In what ways you would act differently then? How you would ask a girl out? How would you react to rejection? How you would carry yourself? Look yourself in the mirror and observe how you you move and carry yourself. Do you see any change?
[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You’re describing me basically word for word.
I am also your typical avoidant. I keep people at arms length and don’t form interpersonal relationships. As a result I have no friends and no experience with the opposite sex.
Very refreshing to see that I’m not the only one who is focused on fixing my problems 24/7. I mean it feels like every waking moment I’m working on fixing my problems, and I can’t ever find a way to let go
[–]TheDevilPutD 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Consider that your problem is that you believe you have problems. Maybe this belief was installed through emotional contagion from your family. So what is there was nothing for you to fix to begin with?
[–]jose3013 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It could be better that you have no experience, rather than bad experience.
Given how we are, trust me, you would've never heard the end of it if you were the one to break up or let down your SO.
You would've scrutinized and demonized yourself for every single thing you did wrong, and it would've been way harder to try again.
[–]Son_of_Ibadan 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So fucking true!!! For example sometimes we think we lack charisma but really and truly we just havent gotten the opportunity to be charismatic or if we did we prevent ourselves from being charismatic!! Its all in our head!! We are our own worst enemy if we give into negative talk. Thanks for the reminder!!
[–]wirelezz 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I just have to say that I agree with the implications of using the word "problems", as it can negatively impact your self.
But I do think you can turn it around and call it "improvement". You don't have problems, but things you have to work on or improve.
Yes, look in the mirror and acknowledge that you're great! You're (hopefully) healthy and with lots of goals in life. Recognize you're awesome and just need a bit of tweaking.
[–]TheDevilPutD -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
This is still the wrong attitude. Improving implies that something is not optimal. I mean if you want to get more muscle and hit the gym fine, if you want to finally learn to ride a motorcycle and buy a leather jacket, then fine. Do you whatever that is. There is a saying: Good boys go to Heaven; Bad boys go wherever they want. And that may mean not wanting to fucking improve and strive to be a better man.
[–]wirelezz 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
But you're lying to yourself if you don't acknowledge you can improve. It's the polar opposite
[–]LucianU 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What if women find you attractive the way you are right now? No improvements necessary. How does that make you feel?
[–]wirelezz 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You just asked a great question. But here's a better one:
Don't you think you can become better? Rhetorical question: Are you perfect? Of course not, no one is.
I believe that the best approach to seduction is to bet on Inner Game, or self improvement. The better you become, the better women you will attract.
If you are insecure and needy, and a woman likes you just the way you are, chances are she is insecure as well. You attract what you are.
Finally, women like men who look forward into becoming better men. And if you don't ask yourself the basic question "what do I need to improve?", you will not attract better women.
I agree with you about betting on Inner Game.
With my questions, I wanted to hint at the fact that we are loveable just as we area. But, because we believe we're not good enough, we sabotage ourselves. We don't even try to talk to that cute girl who's looking at us.
Sure, that doesn't mean that we should let ourselves go. But if we accept ourselves, the opposite happens. We start to love all the parts of us and we start living a life that is healthy for us. Because we let go of all the coping behaviors, all the vices that we have.
Btw, I'm not saying this is easy peasy. I've been working on this for years, and I still don't feel I'm there, even though I've come a long way.
[–]theforgeproject 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here’s the thing: you think you’re the “bad boy here”. You’re not. You’re complacent and have accepted mediocrity.
Great men in history didn’t accept fuck all. They sought improvement be it internally or externally. But you know what? It’s just like my mentor says: “not everyone is cut out for this game”.
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]TheDevilPutD 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
You are not getting it. Maybe his social awkwardness is caused by being so overly worries that he has some deep seated problem, that it manifests itself in avoiding social interactions as a way of not letting people see how deeply fucked up he is. Maybe if he realized he has no problems, he will stop feeling awkward and anxious.
[–]Shortblaq_rod 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
He has no problems? If you're an adult especially in your 30s and still have social awkwardness it's a huge problem.
[–]TheDevilPutD 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Are you sure? Have you thought that his social awkwardness problem was likely caused by him believing he is screwed up early in his childhood, so he developed the strategy of social avoidance in order to hide his "screwed up self"? His current problem was caused by the underlying assumption that there was something wrong with him in the first place. That assumption is the foundation of everything. Knock it down and everything else will fall with it, leading to acceptance.
[–]Shortblaq_rod 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
'His social awkwardness problem' should tell you he certainly has a problem. I don't know why you think otherwise
[–]TheDevilPutD 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I guess I am trying to challenge your assumptions. Do you think his social awkwardness is intrinsic (i.e. he was born this way and cannot change) to him or was it caused by something else, and if so, what caused it?
[–]Shortblaq_rod 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Doesn't matter whether it's intrinsic or was caused by his upbringing/ environment. Never met him, don't know how he looks like so am not going to assume how he developed this unattractive and negative trait like how would I even know? Also am not sure why you think problems don't exist because they do and are very real. If they didn't we all will be perfect right? That's why someone in the comments referenced self improvement so you can become better. Literally the few comments that I agree with you don't. Which makes me think that high number of upvotes a post gets doesn't necessarily mean it's a good one. This is an example. Yes you have some good points but trying to downplay or ignore problems people may have indicates you're either young, inexperienced and don't know what your saying or you just don't want to acknowledge other points of view
[–]TheDevilPutD 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thanks, I wish I was young though :(
[–]Shortblaq_rod 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't wish you were young, embrace your current stage in life be grateful and strive to be better
[–]Redditorsheaven 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Great points and I relate this to the problems that were mentioned in Eckhart Tolle’s book ‘Power of Now’. If you want to improve on this aspect, you should definitely give it a try.
[–]MuttsNStuff 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Somebody give this man a medal.
[–]LordKitan 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
One of the things I thought about myself was that I didn’t know/forgot how to talk to people, when before that mindset even occurred, I was the class clown in every grade from pre-school to elementary school. Some time this year, post-college, I realized that I’m actually great at making conversation. It’s just that I get in my head so much that I’d convinced myself otherwise.
I still do get in my head, and I still talk myself out of things (such as putting myself out there with dating), but I also know that a lot of my doubts are founded only in fear. Conquering fear of the unknown is the big hurdle in my life now.
[–]toroefields12 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Dude same. People in high school always called me awkward and ugly, but my looks and social skills got much better once I went to college. Problem was, I’m so in my head and think that I’m still that same kid in high school that I shy away from opportunities in life
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Took me a long time to realise this but it's so freeing when you do. I always used to look at myself as that person that had had issues socialising and I was weird because I couldn't. Now I realise it's because I don't like socialising, I'd much rather sit at home and I'm happy with that. It's nice to think to yourself that there really is no "normal" sure there's majorities in most things but that still doesn't make them what you have to be. You are you and you should just be you, you don't have a problem because you're not like the majority.
[–]theforgeproject 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I don’t think you’ve actually done much other than mask one poor behavior with another.
Change comes from self love. Self love is looking in the mirror and saying “you’re a sexy mutha fucka. I love me”. When you give a shit about yourself and believe in yourself, that’s when change can take place. Your efforts failed bc the foundation of self value is weak.
You just beat yourself up bc you don’t have self value. So instead of doing what you know needed doing you’d ignore it. Which in turn would make you feel guilty which would allow you to beat yourself up again. Round and round it went. You got to a point of pain that required you to make a decision. But instead of choosing the difficult path of self improvement you merely threw on another layer of paint that said “I’m fine just the way I am”. But I know you’re not. And you know you’re not.
Want to know how I know?
Because if you truly felt at peace with yourself nobody would hear about it. It’s only in uncertainty that one will take an idea, a philosophy or a belief and bring it to a public forum. Those that agree strengthen the wavering confidence. Those that oppose it (like me) strengthen its resolve. Unless you set aside your ego and realize what I’m telling you is true.
You may have a point. Talk to me more about this.
[–]theforgeproject 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Ask the right question
How do I know if ai have self value?
You clearly don’t and that’s the wrong question
[–]VDKay 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Some "problems" are "problems" no matter how you see them. It does not take a scientist to draw some correlation between "success" and e.g. height or X facial features or disability. These will always matter and, if you are lacking in those areas, you need to either fix them, or accept that they will always be a problem that will come up constantly and thus, inadvertently, narrow down your dating pool.
One important step however is to be able to get some objective view on these as it will help identify them better and be able to gauge their true impact. Having honest and supportive friends or good mentors can help tremendously here, but the best statistical feedback is collected by going out and trying out stuff yourself in a trial-and-error manner.
[–]TheDevilPutD -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Can I take a wild guess that that big science brain of yours is not getting you laid too much? Less thinking man
[–]VDKay 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Maybe few years back I was indeed an AFC. Now I can say I get adequate amounts of sex. On the one hand, yeah I do overthink things, but on the other hand, maybe my brain got me laid after all.
Don't get me wrong. I support your point. What I wanted to highlight is that "problems" are not always black-and-white, especially if they are based on actual measurable facts. It's not like that they are either in your brain or they are not. Some of them are very real, but that does not mean that we should let them stop us. There are more than 2 mindsets. For example:
True, I notice that y’all guys will inevitably get a girlfriend at some point just due to sheer luck and demand sometimes. I’m 5’7 and know the struggle
[–]usedtimecapsule 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This line of thinking is dangerous because most people will never take fault then
[–]ReditGuyToo -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I like this a lot.
For years, women, therapists, the cops, and the law have been insisting I have X, Y, and Z issues. Maybe I'm not the one with the problem. Maybe society has the problem. After all, the heart wants what the heart wants.
[–]Da_Famous_Anus 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes and yet ironically this is in itself the problem.
[–]jose3013 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for the message, I needed it. I've always done the same thing, and yeah, it's an ever ending cycle of "trying to be better" and always failing, when sometimes your problems are just that you are different, not broken. I'd give you a gold award if I had one.
[–]Th3asshole 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Lol it’s never been my personality, just my height (no this is not your cue to type in some anecdotal bullshit)
Ight it’s true, height definitely fucks you over from a decent amount of women. Hell, I’m 5’7 myself and black so I get absolutely no luck on tinder and not as many chances in life. But there are still a lot of women out there that are cool with your height. You just have to find them
[–]Ashwin89 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Very well put.
For TL;DR: Maybe you haven't really given yourself a chance for the other person to know what's interesting about you. Maybe it's all in your head. So, stop complaining and start acting.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Worlowt 82 points83 points84 points (4 children) | Copy Link
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