The problem with "only learning this to get a girlfriend"

mynewname · 2010-03-25T18:06:34+00:00

If you build inner game in the process, you're not putting on a show, so there's nothing to "reveal". Also, if you don't, it still gets your foot in the door. You can't tell who's going to work with you on an LTR if you can't get a date with any of them.

rustoof · 2010-03-25T18:55:47+00:00

Just a quick fair warning. This is probably advice you don't want to hear.

Because every second with her is a gift, that is paid for with what you have learned about dating, relationships, the rules of attraction etc... Unless you have internalized the reality of the game to a degree where it has fused into your soul you do not have a chance.

I wouldn't say this is true. In fact, I learned the opposite with my boyfriend, who had been Don Juaning for years before I showed up.

For the first few months, everything was okay, but after awhile, we realized that both of us needed to put away what we knew about seduction if we ever wanted a healthy relationship. Otherwise it was just one big power struggle. PUA was really tearing us apart and devaluing our relationship. When you start treating an intimate relationship like a game, it ceases to be an intimate relationship. You can't be going around push-pulling your SO. I will tell you right now that it only makes you look like a jackass :3

Now, some aspects of seduction should be taken to heart no matter what. Not being needy and maintaining personal independence is probably the most important thing you can take away from PUA while in a relationship. For the most part though, I think the best time for that stuff is during the chase. As crazy as it sounds, some of the stuff that PUA's dismiss as being weak and silly are actually looked at as positive when you have been with somebody for a long time.

It's hard to articulate this, but if anyone has any specific questions, I will answer them. Im not saying any of this to spit on PUA. I heavily support it. I am only talking from my own experience in a long term relationship.

MothershipConnection · 2010-03-25T18:16:56+00:00

I think the most powerful thing you can get from the seduction material regarding dating is simply having the power of options. I think the two most pathetic things in the dating-scape are when people sleep around a lot cause they base their entire self-worth on whether they can fuck, and when two people latch onto each other like dual succubi in an unhealthily codependent LTR. Both put an unhealthy amount of self worth on the approval of other people.

If you can use your powers of attraction to fuck lots of people cause you really have fun doing so, good on you. If consciously decide you only want to be with one of them, that's good too.

I feel like sometimes the term "seduction" community is actually a bit of a misnomer. This puts the emphasis way more on the "gaming" side of the game, which makes sense in a way. You can sell "game" as a product. You can sell a course of techniques, you can put together a step by step routine to work even the newbiest of newbs through this. Even for the prettiest dudes you need some sort of game to from point A of not fuckin to point B of fuckin. You can sell "looks don't matter, all you need is enough game and you can still get into a girl's pants" and you know what, that's very much true.

But the actual ability to spit game or run a technique is only half the battle. Being an attractive person is the other half, and I feel things are still pretty rudimentary on this end. Sure there's things like go work out, be an alpha male, but that's hardly complete. But some people are just ugly, and you can't exactly package "get a better job/get some education/get less ugly/get some self worth" into a weekend seminar for $999.

A--------------------------->B

A------>B

The way I see it, the human mating game, especially for guys, is about getting from point A to point B. The arrow is in the interaction part of the game, the gaming side if you will. This can be fairly easily taught, and a damn whole lot of guys need to be taught this to have any success. But being an attractive all around person is bringing A to B much closer together, and that's something that's much harder to teach and convey. Whether you want to use this to get lots of A to B, or just a few special A to B is up to you.

Maybe they should really name this the "Attraction & Seduction" game.

Thelonious_Cube · 2010-03-26T00:18:51+00:00

Some thoughts from someone who has very little game, but who had a fantastic 26-year LTR

However, she loves who you have made yourself out to be. Not the AFC you.

To the extent that you are fictionalizing yourself to meet women you are not ready for a LTR.

In order to keep her, and in essence not be a fraud ... you must turn into who you want to be 100% completely.

That's a pretty tall order. In my experience, making it in a LTR requires honesty at a level most people aren't comfortable with - especially not at first. It means being able to be your absolute worst self in front of the other person and know that they will still be there for you (and that's a two-way street - you'll see her at her worst and need to not only tolerate it, but love her in spite of it).

So I would say it's much less about realizing all of your ideals so much as it is about being able to reveal who you really are.

every second with her is a gift,

Absolutely!

that is paid for with what you have learned about dating, relationships, the rules of attraction etc...

I hope you have more to offer than just the game.

You will revert to the not self confident and weak guy you were before. She will continue to shit test you. She will continue to demand "alpha" traits.

Then she's not ready for a LTR. This is not how a good LTR works. Same goes for your behavior towards her - if you keep negging and trying to score points, then you're not heading into LTR territory.

it is far too psychologically taxing to attempt to fake your way through a whole relationship

if you're faking, it isn't really a LTR

LTR game is a very advance, very difficult form of game.

I'd love to say that this is just plain wrong, but it depends how you look at it. I think from what I've said above you can tell that I don't think of LTR as a game at all. I suspect that thinking of it as such is probably detrimental to success. Think of it more as a collaborative enterprise - you and her against the world, if you need opposition - but not you against her - even better is like cooking together or playing music - you both do better by helping each other than by trying to outdo each other. Not so much an "advanced form of the game" as a different game altogether.

You cannot run routines to have an LTR.

Very true

Your LTR will leave you if you revert to be an unnattractive guy she never would have liked in the first place.

Then you entered the relationship under false pretences and that's exactly what she should do.

It is however far more rewarding.

Absolutely true AFAIK (not much of a PUA, as I said) but that LTR was one of the best things in my entire life

EDIT: Since posting the above yesterday pretty much off the top of my head I've been thinking about the PUA community (or what little I know of it) in relation to such things.

I think one of the things that the PUA's are trying to do is to bolster and defend the ego (probably quite appropriate in most cases) and this may work well for some people - it's probably a necessary stage for some.

One of the things I learned in my LTR, though, was to let down the defenses.

It may seem natural to assume that vulnerability=weakness (and the words themselves seem to support this), but often allowing yourself to be vulnerable is a show of greater strength and, more importantly, of trust.

It's kind of like the difference between martial arts and boxing. A lot of PUA's seem to be approaching the game like a boxing match - strategy, power, staying on top. I think one could approach the game from a different perspective, though - one that would serve you well in a LTR. Maybe there are some people out thee teaching that form of the game - I don't know

Weaponized_Dairy · 2010-03-25T21:36:21+00:00

Game is not alpha. Game is what you use like a crutch until you can walk. And each girl is different so if you are reading a book to tell you how to be a good boyfriend instead of learning by experience you are more likely to fuck up. There is no manual or rulebook on how to live life.

Casually · 2010-03-25T17:45:21+00:00

Amen.

m-m-m-monster · 2010-03-25T19:37:05+00:00

Great post.

OP, do you mind discussing how you started learning the game and where you are now?

rustoof · 2010-03-25T20:47:03+00:00

LTR game is a very advance, very difficult form of game. I understand if you don't want to be a player, or you don't want to have sex with lots of girls. But don't for a second think your desire to "just get a girlfriend" is going to make things easier for you. You could have a girlfriend now, your standards are just too high. To get with a girl who fits your standards you must change yourself. This is most easily done by internalizing "game" to a degree that it is you.

I think this is because humans aren't biologically programmed to have relationships that last longer than a few years. It's incredibly tough to maintain a relationship beyond the "spark" or "chemistry" that exists initially. The only people that can do this are people who are willing to "bear it and grin" either because of religious beliefs or "for the children".

echimp · 2010-03-26T00:46:40+00:00

Style has repeatedly said something to the effect that he wants to learn from the guru of LTR's. Thinking of this I imagine that there are important parts of LTR that can be improved by seduction strategies. I read the game after i was married and i realized that my wife became attracted to me because she was tired of having great friendships stopping at LJBF. She initially saw in me a great friendship potential without pre-existing sexual boundaries. Now that we are married and i know better, i go out of my way to project myself, as Mystery puts it, "The leader of men", "Preselected by women", and "Protector of Loved ones". I find that in my LTR, I can refresh, amplify and excite the relationship with certain seduction techniques. This seems to work well as the relationship is subject to a periodicity in that there are periods of boring, monotonous times and periods of exciting courtship times.

Deacon · 2010-03-25T19:59:49+00:00

Unlikely. A girl who wants a relationship (rather than a skank who'll fuck anything that moves) is going to be far less harsh and demanding. You are talking about two different kinds of women.

Title	The problem with "only learning this to get a girlfriend"
Author	rustoof
Upvotes	35
Comments	57
Date	March 25, 2010 4:35 PM UTC (16 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/bi5qj/the_problem_with_only_learning_this_to_get_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/the-problem-with-only-learning-this-to-get-a.1310047 https://theredarchive.com/post/1310047

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