The washing of gender statistics.

griii2 · 2023-09-21T09:21:40+00:00

Great post, but what statistics was it? Can you share a link?

I have noticed that UN outright manipulates it's Gender Equality Index: https://www.reddit.com/r/SystemicSexism/comments/z0x3ca/how\_un\_manipulates\_the\_gender\_development\_index/

soggy_sock1931 · 2023-09-21T11:57:57+00:00

Similarly, women are incapable of rape in the UK so 99% of rapists are men, the remaining 1% are women guilty through joint enterprise and trans women. So saying 99% of rapists are men is kind of meaningless since it's designed to be that way.

The mayor of London also said that most DV committed against men is by other men (in homosexual relationships) and that female offenders were previously abused by their male victims.

Feminists have been doing this for decades so they're experts at it.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/72839546.pdf

The domestic violence movement historically framed its work on a gender binary of men as potential perpetrators and women as potential victims. This binary was an essential starting point to defining and responding to domestic violence. The movement has since struggled to address women as perpetrators. It has historically deployed a "strategy of containment" to respond to women as perpetrators. This strategy includes bringing male victims of domestic violence within existing services, monitoring exaggerations and misstatements about the extent of women's violence, and noting the troublesome line between perpetrator/victim for women. This strategy achieved specific and important goals to domestic violence law reforms. These goals included retaining domestic violence's central and iconic framing as a women's issue, preserving critical funding sources and infrastructure to serve victims, and thwarting obstructionist political challenges largely waged by men's rights groups.

ERiC_693 · 2023-09-21T08:04:29+00:00

Its been done for a long time.

As men are facing more visible issues tactics are used to dilute it down.

Its disgraceful, but it is ideological. Women must be the victims.

RemarkableReturn8400 · 2023-09-21T11:31:39+00:00

Majority of the homeless in the u.s. are black men......

hehimCA · 2023-09-21T14:45:57+00:00

You are exactly right -- this happens everywhere with gender data which is why we need to be diligent with sharing the most important data.

In the homeless arena, always use the "unsheltered homeless" data. That's the really homeless people, and it's like you say 75%+ male.

6-leslie · 2023-09-21T13:53:30+00:00

Homelessness already didn’t mean living on the street though to social workers & other experts who work with the homeless. Couch surfing, staying at a shelter, squatting in abandoned buildings or storage sheds, living in a motel or your car were already considered forms of homelessness. Sleeping rough was one form of it that gets the most attention rightfully because it’s (usually, not always) the most dangerous. But other forms of homelessness are also dangerous and often end up to rough sleeping unless you’re female who gets prioritized care. Most of those who sleep rough also spend time couch surfing, motel living, at shelters before they’re back on the street, especially in winter, or started living out like that before the street. They don’t stop being homeless at the times they have temporary unstable, unsafe roof over their head and no address to get important services. (women only) abuse shelters can distort homeless ratio. Because if women leave a home to go to a shelter for help, or the government gives them a hotel voucher, they can be homeless for a only few days before society & the government has them in safe stable housing. This is especially true for mothers over single females (they don’t do it with fathers). Men don’t get this, and don’t have incentive to leave a home / be homeless for a few days to get a better living situation since there’s no help for them like that.

I’m homeless since august 31st, right now I live in an old motel with problems that’s flaring my health issues. (Still, I’m very grateful.) I can’t afford to live here because I’m disabled and can’t work. The money the government gives me to survive a month is less than the cheapest motel in a week, and the cheapest motel is thousands of dollars cheaper than the cheapest apartments. I’m using very limited/finite savings and some help from my abusive mother to stay here, temporarily. I’m at risk of being kickt out at any time. If I’m on the streets with my disability I die in a day. I’m in contact with the local homeless shelter who checks on me. Their shelters aren’t meant for people with my disability and they’re trying to avoid me having to be put in it but also not on the street. Think about the effects / consequences of not considering people in these situations as homeless, what will that do to them. Do you think excluding these situations is a helpful way to define & address homelessness?

The_Squiggy · 2023-09-22T00:30:54+00:00

I spent the better part of 3 months living in my car one winter. It was all I could do to escape a violent ex girlfriend.

Couldn't couch surf because she knew where all my friends lived (those who would still associate with me anyway)

The utter lack of any service or help available to me was eye opening, to say the least.

No dv shelter would put me up, because I was a man. No hotel voucher, no alternate facility - nothing. The best I got was a 'group therapy' session - it was to help men stop beating thier wives...

No homeless shelter would let me in because I had another option (my car) even though it was January and 10 below 0. (Not really mad about it, others needed it more )

That shit was the worst phase in my entire life, and I'd never wish it on anyone. But it needs to be said that any efforts to exclude aiding unhoused men is going to exacerbate the problem much more than help solve it.

anomnib · 2023-09-21T13:27:36+00:00

I’m all for objective measurements, I’m trained in statistics, but I’ll need more evidence before I believe homelessness was redefined to only dilute men’s issues.

You can argue that families doubling up is worth adding to the homeless count because they face a meaningful degree of risk (i.e. when stressors intensify in the home, the guest family living on the graciousness of the host family is at risk of being thrown into the streets or being forced to accept abuse). We also know, for better and for worse, that there’s a cultural norm among progressives to widen the scope of what it means to be disadvantaged .

I’m not doubting that men’s issues, in some areas, are intentionally diluted because they inconveniently complicate the standard progressive story. I think there’s a strong evidence for it in DV. Nor am I saying we shouldn’t ask these questions. We should just bring a higher standard of evidence. For example Things like routine observations of street homelessness isn’t good evidence b/c there are well documented biases in recollection (which also can harm men’s rights to due process if not handled correctly).

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-09-21T08:58:49+00:00

Feminist are masters of obfuscation of facts.

JJnanajuana · 2023-09-22T01:01:17+00:00

Yep, I've noticed it in reporting, every time women start closing a gap that's bad for men it's reported something like "women's incarceration rate increasing at 2 times the rate of mens"

Defidently in domestic violence. Where the dv murder rates are normally presented as a % of total murders so that the larger number of men killed by strangers makes their "percent killed by family" smaller as compared to women who are very rarely killed by strangers and so mostly killed by family.

The expanded definitions definitely applies to dv. Some intimate partner murders happen without a history of domestic violence, it may be a "mercy killing" of someone sick, or someone experiencing psychosis, for example, but a lot follow from domestic violence.

So they separate the two types to look at just the domestic violence homicides, and in that category they include coercive control.

Which is good, because coercive control is a fucked up thing to experience and it is a warning sign that the controlling person might not take a break up well, and sometimes even commit murder for example.

But, as the people who do this point out, (the nsw ipv death review in this case) coercive control is difficult to pin down and can be used by the perpetrator to make them look like the victim. (They wanted to watch UK's laws for a bit before making it law here because of that).

So we've got this form of "violence" that can be really damaging (I've seen it play out, its awful) but can also be hard to recognise and pin down and can look "normal".

So how do we tell who's committing it?

Easy, they tell us inside it's definition

A concept that recognises domestic violence as a gendered harm [...]

(In the definitions of the nsw domestic violence death review team 2019-2021 report)

What does this look like in practice?

Sometimes it obvious, a man wouldn't let her talk to her family, controlled what she ate, when she slept, didn't let her have any money etc...

Sometimes it looks like the man who turned up at his second property where his wife was living and did the yard work semi regularly. I mean, was stalking her.

The proof that was stalking, one time he went there one night, and went home without doing the yardwork he said he was there to do...

Anyway not to defend the guy, it sure looks like he caught her with another man and killed her (his story is that she put a hit on him and it backfired, but he also said they had a good relationship so... yea)

But that's not what I would call "a history of domestic violence" (or stalking, or coercive control)

Oh and sometimes it looks like a man getting an AVO to protect himself from her, oops I mean to control her, before being killed by her. (No, not kidding, there were at least three in this category by the 17 report, number later obscured)

Guess how many female predomanant abusers they identified in 2019/2021? (I couldn't tell if this quote was for all previous reports or just these years.)

>! There were no cases where a woman was identified as the predominant domestic violence abuser in the relationship.!<

LeonDeCool · 2023-09-21T16:37:24+00:00

I do think statistics often get manipulated to downplay men's problems, but this isn't one of those for me. I don't know where you are, but the definition you gave for homelessness has been the one used by HUD in the united states for quite some time.

Having been homeless myself, I also agree with the multiple definitions. Unsheltered homelessness and sheltered homelessness are VERY different things, that (imo) both need to be delineated, tracked, and treated separately. People living in student accomodations are also not counted in my city's PIT counts (basically a census for homelessness taken every year or every other for submission to HUD).

If three families live in a 3 bedroom house, two of those families are homeless. They may have a roof over their head, but it's not theirs and they're liable to be removed at any time by the homeowners, or local authorities if they're discovered. Functionally, they're homeless even if they don't look it. Same for singles living in someone else's apartment or a family that got foreclosed on moving into one spouse's parent's basement.

illixxxit · 2023-09-21T20:12:26+00:00

Homeless means without stable housing (“home”), so crashing on couches or in shelters certainly meets the criteria. “Houselessness” would have been a useful term to distinguish between those down-and-out on the streets with no roof vs those drifting among temporary, precarious indoor lodging situations, but it’s now just (inexplicably) a woke euphemism for homelessness. “Sleeping rough” is a term that makes the distinction. I think nearly any sociologist or cultural anthropologist with any knowledge on this issue would certainly understand that men are much more likely to be houseless/rough sleeping than women are in situations of homelessness, and could offer some explanations of why.

edit: …Do you guys downvote women on this sub or is there something wrong with this argument? Several close friends of mine have been homeless (both in the sleeping rough sense and in the precarious/drifting sense, and I studied cultural anthropology, so I’d love to understand what you think is wrong with the distinction I am drawing instead of just seeing this sitting at -2.

TheSpaceDuck · 2023-09-21T11:22:32+00:00

Do you have a source for that study you saw?

Motanul_Negru · 2023-09-23T15:04:10+00:00

Ugh, is it 1984 already? What's next, the homeless Americans number will decrease from ~600,000 in 2022 to ~1M in 2024?

All this anti-human nonsense under the guise of helping women needs to wither and die. Or the species will.

NoFapGymColdShowers · 2023-09-24T00:54:36+00:00

They even change statistics to not acknowledge our pain. Thats how you know its over.

JetChipp · 2023-09-24T12:37:41+00:00

So when you take in consideration homeless people that have acess to temporary shelters women's homelessness rate increases far more than men's? The implications of that alone are very telling.

Title	The washing of gender statistics.
Author	hshsgdve
Upvotes	156
Comments	30
Date	September 21, 2023 6:21 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/16o8cf2/the_washing_of_gender_statistics/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/the-washing-of-gender-statistics.1232519 https://theredarchive.com/post/1232519

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