Getting married, looking for good resources for how to structure a prenup

Incapaisa · 2017-10-24T17:05:02+00:00

A iron clad prenup can be found void at the judge's discretion. The judge determines this based on how fair or harsh the prenup is towards the wife during divorce proceedings. Source: brother is family law attorney

JStheHammer · 2017-10-24T16:32:52+00:00

In the USA prenups are thrown out all the time. Some lawyers won't even write the anymore.

MotherFuckin-Oedipus · 2017-10-24T19:51:43+00:00

I have a pretty extensive prenup, and my wife and I live in California - the state you live in is very important here; more liberal states are more likely to throw entire agreements out because you put in something they didn't like. I highly recommend not just going to a family attorney, but hiring a certified family law specialist. It will be 2-3x as costly for fees, but it's more likely that your agreement will be binding that way.

Your state also determines what measures you can take that are reasonable (and some may not even be applicable), so instead I'll just list off some of what mine does.

They certainly aren't foolproof. If at least one of you is expecting to be high-income, though, it's at least worth a shot.

Waive community property rights. While we can specify something as community property, without us writing an agreement saying something is (e.g. a house), it is individual or joint property instead. If one of us buys a $40,000 car or $2,000,000 vacation home, and the spouse's name isn't on the title, that's individual property.
Spousal support / alimony will last no longer than half the duration of our marriage.
Spousal support / alimony will be capped at 300% what welfare would provide.
(Our house is in my name, for context) If I die, and for whatever reason I don't leave my house to my wife, she gets to live there for up to one year before she can be evicted.
If she works on the house - e.g. let's say she lays down new floor - such work is considered a gift and she does not accrue any interest in the property.
Severability clause.

Two other important parts:

My father will be leaving me a very substantial inheritance - assuming nothing catastrophic happens - and wife agrees that the inheritance will be in my name only.
Due to our career interests, while my wife made twice what I did when we married, it was almost guaranteed that I would make significantly more than her eventually. Wife acknowledges this.

My attorney included these so that a judge would be less likely to throw out the agreement based on "well, your situation now is drastically different than when you got hitched, so it's not a valid agreement." This happens often.

Lastly, some advice:

You cannot limit child support or make any regulation towards it in any way. If you do, it's almost guaranteed your agreement will just be thrown out.
Do this as soon as you can. It takes months to draft these things. If you finish too close to the wedding, it may not be valid in court.
Make sure you warn tell your wife-to-be that this is supposed to be a discussion leading to an agreement. You're both supposed to find what you think is fair. Some people feel attacked with these things and can't take a mature approach to them.
Use two separate attorneys - one for each of you. I thought this was obvious, but I guess it isn't for some people.

Honestly, a prenup made us talk about some things we never would have otherwise discussed. It was a pretty positive experience.

ThePigmanAgain · 2017-10-24T22:50:18+00:00

Fuck the prenup. Fuck marriage. How many times do men like you have to grasp the razor wire before you get the message?

existentialhack · 2017-10-24T19:22:12+00:00

Don't get married.

yoshi_win · 2017-10-24T16:45:35+00:00

Disclaimer: I have never been married and am not a lawyer.

Consider pooling a portion of each income into a joint account. The exact fraction could be 50%, or anything between 0-100%. Maybe it could increase over time? Be prepared for her to take the entire joint account for herself if things go south.
How would other assets be divided? House, cars, pets, anything important that might become jointly owned.

NebulousASK · 2017-10-24T16:49:19+00:00

The biggest thing you need to do is figure out what the laws are for marriage property and prenups in the state where you live. This is an area of the law where each state has significant quirks, and you should pay attention to how things work in your particular state. Don't presume that because something worked or didn't work in Indiana that you can do the same thing in New Jersey.

IAALBNYL (I am a lawyer but not your lawyer)

PillTheRed · 2017-10-24T22:00:27+00:00

Prenuptial agreements arent worth the paper they're written on. Don't get married if you are worried about it. They get thrown out almost always. Basically, your prenup doesn't trump your state laws. If she would have gotten more according to the state you are in, the prenup is void.

mikesteane · 2017-10-24T22:17:20+00:00

Why are you getting married? What is the point?

MagicTampon · 2017-10-25T07:20:26+00:00

A few thins you must do:

(1) She must have a lawyer to review the document. It would be reasonable for you to pay for her lawyer to defray the cost. If she has no lawyer at the time she signs, it will be thrown out.

(2) You need to make sure to have the document completed and signed very far in advance of the wedding, or else she could subsequently claim it was signed under duress, and the document could be thrown out.

(3) A lawyer will know which terms are allowable in your state and which are not. Generally speaking, 1/2 of the assets that come into your possession after the time you become married will be hers in case of a divorce, and usually there is little that a prenup can do to get around that. Be sure to ask your lawyer how you must structure your pre-marital assets in order to keep them separate from the marital property. Ask him about "co-mingling" assets and how to deal with taxes that come due on any of the pre-marital assets. Generally, any time assets or money that you acquired after the marriage are "co-mingled" with your pre-marital assets, even if only a tiny bit, those premarital assets will become property of the marriage, and subject to 50% division in case of divorce. So say you have $1000 in a bank account before you get married. After you get married, you screw up and add $1 of your salary to the account by mistake. The entire $1001 will thereafter be considered marital property, and subject to 50% division in case of a subsequent divorce.

(4) "I don't just want to have the 'default' prenup of 'what's yours is yours, what's mine is mine'." LOL that is a ridiculous mischaracterization of prenups. More accurately, your phrase describe the treatment that men get in case of divorce in a family court when they don't have a prenup. See #3 above.

number4ty7 · 2017-10-24T17:21:21+00:00

The dog and two cats will be demanded if things go south. Some women have got them only to euthanize them as retribution. Be aware.

52576078 · 2017-10-24T22:33:26+00:00

/u/throwaway2174651 Check out what the divorce laws are in your state (assuming you are in the US). This is a must read http://www.realworlddivorce.com/

TicTacToeTitTattoo · 2017-10-25T01:39:00+00:00

A "pre-nup" need to be regularly reviewed, amended, and updated post-nup, if you hope for it to be taken seriously and not just set aside by the judge.

It serves as a starting baseline, and you'll make arguments in court for why the final divorce decree should be different. If your pre-nup talks about how your car is yours and her car is hers... but you've since then sold your car and bought a new one, the disposition of the new car isn't necessarily covered, and maybe she keeps her car (per the pre-nup) and is entitled to half of the new (maritally owned) car.

It's basically like continuously negotiating a current record of how you both agree to divide and dispose of personal and marital property in the event of divorce.

Aeternalis_ · 2017-10-26T05:41:45+00:00

The best course of action for a man to take regarding marriage is not doing it.

mikesteane · 2017-10-26T15:18:46+00:00

My initial thinking was to avoid getting married, and she was ok with this, but I realized that she spent a lot of time worrying about her financial future

No need for a marriage, just a financial agreement then.

circlhat · 2017-10-24T19:45:45+00:00

Why get married? I mean be honest? there is 0 benefit, and 100% risk.

My wife and I got married without a government contract, and let me tell you it was the best decision of my life, I can leave anytime, she can leave anytime. We been going 5 years strong.

You mention you want stability for her ? why do you want a gun pointed to your head, If you're truly honorable than you can freely give her what you want if you break up

Random_Name01 · 2017-10-24T16:30:43+00:00

Try /r/LegalAdvice

GhostofB · 2017-10-24T23:40:25+00:00

she spent a lot of time worrying about her financial future, and so I thought if getting married, with a fair prenup, then I could provide her with a degree of financial stability

This makes no sense. Marriage only gives her financial stability if you don't have a prenup and she can maintain her lifestyle from your income even if you leave. What exactly are you offering that you couldn't just hand over to her right now without a contract?

ThatNinaGAL · 2017-10-24T18:50:14+00:00

My husband and I negotiated terms of a prenup, but never signed one. The terms included our right to maintain ownership of inherited property during a divorce, a ramp-up period to a 50:50 split of our assets (I think it was 10 years), and a one-time settlement instead of ongoing alimony if we divorced prior to my husband's retirement age.

The main reason we decided not to get it drawn up is that we thought a court would just throw it out if either one of us decided we didn't want to honor it. We were right out of college, with basically zero assets on either side, and planning an entirely comingled life with a SAHM raising multiple children. This is the lifestyle for which the current laws exist. So we just trusted each other not to steal each other's family heirlooms or land.

In your shoes, I think a prenup does make sense, but you need to have a detailed talk with both your fiance and your lawyer about how to minimize the risk of it being overturned. For instance, a joint IRA that you both contribute to could be split 50/50 if you divorce. Your wife could be added to the deed of the house after 10 years of marriage. Etc. Very intentional things like that which clearly demonstrate the limits of what you two have decided to share.

BisquitBill · 2017-10-24T17:48:29+00:00

My initial thinking was to avoid getting married, and she was ok with this, but I realized that she spent a lot of time worrying about her financial future, and so I thought if getting married, with a fair prenup, then I could provide her with a degree of financial stability while avoiding an unfair outcome should our marriage not work out.

https://i.imgur.com/LR6sxjU.gif

The__Tren__Train · 2017-10-24T18:27:40+00:00

then I could provide her with a degree of financial stability while avoiding an unfair outcome should our marriage not work out.

lol.. you're down to give a ton of money to a woman who hates you? fascinating.

doesn't really sound like you have any reason to get married tbh.

Title	Getting married, looking for good resources for how to structure a prenup
Author	throwaway2174651
Upvotes	24
Comments	59
Date	October 24, 2017 4:16 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/78gt4d/getting_married_looking_for_good_resources_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/getting-married-looking-for-good-resources-for-how.912450 https://theredarchive.com/post/912450

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