What are your personal problems with TRP ?

nomdplume · 2015-05-03T22:36:08+00:00

It's nice to see people with RP tags commenting positively in here.

Personally I don't agree with the generalizations of groups of people. This may just be personal experience but every single individual I've known as more than a simple acquaintance is so complex and unique that it would be impossible to predict their desires and behaviours using a generalized model.

malachiteCu · 2015-05-04T04:24:01+00:00

I personally don't like how they other women and insinuate they are subhuman with things like 'women are children' etc. I find it sexist as fuck.

Another thing I don't agree with is the necessity of trp. I've read rp theory and it seems like it's self improvement with a large dose of sexism and anger. But trp only focuses on the sexist angry part, which goes back to point 1 of omy opinion.

cxj · 2015-05-03T22:59:45+00:00

Dogmatism is also one of my major problems with TRP. My #1 is the negativity though. Look at goodlookingloser.com, you simply do not see that kind of negativity there. I refuse to believe that negativity is productive, at least not long term. Some of their claims also contradict my own life experiences, and so I simply reject them.

IRScientist · 2015-05-03T22:17:12+00:00

In a world where people (generally babies) are literally dying of scientific illiteracy, we don't need any more of it. It's not like TRP is the first time I've seen misogyny (or misandry for that matter). It is the first time I've seen it paired with the notion that it is scientifically correct. (Lot's of people like to fart on about how logical their specific set of implicit biases are.)

_ArchitectofThought_ · 2015-05-03T22:04:10+00:00

That it has shifted from a collection of guys sharing their ideologies regarding realistic interpretations of social dynamics to a safe haven for anyone to shit on anyone else they don't like in a pretty pathetic effort to feel a little bit better about themselves. Just because you now know why women prefer tall men doesn't make you cool for shitting on poor people...

I've seen people apply TRP to like...dealing with their parents. It's like dude...you shouldn't need an internet religion to deal with your mom.

nomdplume · 2015-05-03T22:44:36+00:00

The idea that men reserve true love for their partners and women do it for their children and that they are incapable of unconditional love toward their partners. It's just a fucking stupid thing to say no matter how much pseudoscience you pack it in.

nomdplume · 2015-05-03T21:49:21+00:00

Anger phase.

Are you so deluded that you thought the world was some airy fairy nice place?

Look at the rest of the animal kingdom, it's fucking vicious! And you think that we are different, that we are special... don't make me laugh!

TheGreasyPole · 2015-05-03T21:53:26+00:00

They basically claim that anyone who doesn't follow their lifestyle is ignorant and they'll ban you from their subreddit if you seem to be questioning their beliefs or if you use words they don't like.

Up till here I could agree with what you said. This must be challenged. People are ignorant of RP.

Imagine your an evolution scientist, a geneticist, and creationists criticise your views because "God made man exactly as he is now". They're problem isn't disagreement, it's ignorance of evolution. They could make other arguments, but they do not. They are ignorant of modern sciences findings on genetics and evolution.

We are not saying we are as right as scientists, I won't claim that. But we spot arguments against us from ignorance easily. Arguments from analysis or thought are much more interesting, but sometimes it really is ignorance.

It's not a protective shield against criticism. It's a protective shield against fuckwits.

Then I start agreeing with you again right up until

I don't doubt that they have a lot of success with them but to arrogantly claim "AWALT" is foolish . AWALT is such a stupid concept in general that I think even most RPillers don't take it literally .

This is ignorance. There is no way around it. Please define for me the "that" in AWALT.

That's is the widest open and most discussed concept in AWALT throughout RP. Those who are not aware of the great debate, are ignorant when talking of AWALT.

If you don't know there a million ways guys use that phrase, depending on the "that" you don't know what AWALT is.

EDIT: answering the title, none really. I wish the girls got better advice, and some other segments like AltTRP and others. It's all pretty solid though, and you are free to pick and choose according to personal morals. I even enjoy the offensiveness. I think it harms greater acceptance, but I wouldn't like it to change. It's fucking fun. Would also be nice to actually have some cash... A few studies of our own ton sexual response, through a foundation, setup legitimately to find the truth, would be awesome. Just awaiting the arrival of our billionaire beta-bucks. Oh, he'd be so dreamy. Sigh.

[deleted] · 2015-05-04T01:56:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

nomdplume · 2015-05-04T02:58:41+00:00

Most of what you said basically describes my position, though I will elaborate and say that my number one problem with TRP, apart from the obvious sexism and general hate-filled attitudes displayed by a lot of members, is the nature of the process of the ideology 'working'.

One of the big reasons RP people keep doing it is because it 'works', and by 'works' I mean it gets the guys lots of 'pussy', and to them that's a success. Why does it get them lots of 'pussy'? Because a lot of women have low as shit self-esteem and thus low standards for themselves as to how they should tolerate being treated, and so they internalize the tactics used on them and respond by trying to win the guy's approval, rather than ignoring his dumb ass like she should.

And what of the RP claim that women don't like 'nice guys'? Well for these women, that appears true, simply because they aren't drawn to it due to not feeling worth it. I've known and seen plenty of girls like this, and I felt it myself, for years. I'm 23 now, and when I was a teenager, and even then alittle after, I was frankly drawn to girls who I imagined in my head would treat me badly. Not so much because I wanted that, but rather because I didn't have the slightest confidence to try to get with a cool woman who would treat me right.

It's a classic self esteem theme both genders feel(and is evident in the posts of a lot of RPers, I might add).

Add on to that the fact that, given women are human beings just like men are, there are quite a few shallow girls who go for the shallow stuff(RPers, with their 1-10 scales of female sexiness and claims that a woman's only value is in how tight her pussy is, proverbially(and sometimes literally) speaking, should know all about that).

Add all that together, and to the typical RPer, all women by nature want to be treated like shit, and they all want lots and lots of money, and that's it.

Why do they think this? Because they don't have empathy for women. Because women in their minds are these strange creatures far different and inferior to men that need to be 'figured out' and 'mastered', rather than being regular old humans just like the rest of us.

I can't stand TRP, and I empathize with RPers a hell of a lot more than they seem to empathize with women. That's the main problem.

DarkisKnight · 2015-05-04T07:42:27+00:00

OP, can you give us some examples or quotes of the posts and language that you find "extremist and hateful?"

Despite the fact that TRP flies in the face of contemporary society, the basic philosophies have been in practice for thousands of years prior to modern western culture and the rise of feminism.

The crazy part is that whether most people are willing to admit it or not, TRP works. In terms of financial, social, and sexual success TRP far more effective than modern western ideologies and feminism.

Evolutionary psychology does quite a bit to back this up. You might cite a source here as well to back-up your opinion on this matter.

andrewisgood · 2015-05-04T03:17:34+00:00

A few things:

-The "AWALT" is quite frankly ignorant, intellectually bankrupt and one reason why I feel it's a hate group (I'll get to that part later). I'm not a fan of MRA stuff, but I'm not ignorant enough to say that all MRAs are sexist. Hell, I don't even want to say that all red pillers are misogynists. That's just intellectually dishonest, because I don't know. One doesn't have to delude themselves into thinking that all women are perfect, but it's complete dishonesty and ignorance by saying that all women are like "that" (always emotional, solipsistic, hypergamous), or potentially assuming it.

-So that goes into TRP being a hate group. The Klan nowadays I think is the most well known comparison, or anything on the Southern Poverty Law Centre. I feel that if TRP started to get off the internet and became more public they'd be more of a target. One positive of society nowadays is generally they can't and if any red piller were to be caught saying many of the things they post, while they feel they're not sexist/misogynistic/whateverthefuck, others would and people wouldn't want anything to do with them except the in group itself. So, it's a hate group in that it looks at people as being less then, not good enough, not worthy of being like, whatever the group feels is "good enough" be they white, christian, or whatever.

-And lastly, another thing I hate about them is co-opting positive things and calling them "red pill", be it PUA tactics that aren't that abusive, self improvement or whatever. On top of that, I couldn't give one fucks, two fucks, red fucks or blue fucks whether it works or not for people. There are a million ways to help improve yourself. But, there is so much distain and contempt for women and it's disgusting.

And here's the thing. I was that beta guy, that friend zoned person, that guy who kept waiting and waiting for a woman that never came. I was taken advantage of financially by women, like, a lot of money too. I was used by people. And those people, those people were wrong (the person who did that later apologized to me for all they had done but I never got any money back). But I'm not someone who is so intellectually dishonest that I would turn heel and think AWALT. So, do I know everything or a lot about TRP? No, hell, I'll admit that. But, if I see a shit ton of people in a thread mocking a rape victim, then, what other conclusion should I draw?

foxytheterrorterrier · 2015-05-04T00:05:29+00:00

I am sick to death of being negged by ugly wannabe alphas. Y'all are like 40 years old acting like a retarded frat boy and it went from being amusing to annoying really fast.

haircombsnightmare · 2015-05-03T21:44:16+00:00

Blue pillers don't read the red pill before critiquing it.

caesarfecit · 2015-05-04T03:37:10+00:00

I support the basic tenet of RP which that relationships are healthy and stable when the man is less invested in the relationship than the woman. Women are turned off by neediness more than men are, subject to the bell curve.

That being said, I think a lot of men are attracted to RP because they've been burned and abused by women and have unresolved issues because of it. So they put on a big show of MGTOW, chasing looks and money, and treating women like they don't matter. It's their way of proving to themselves that they're above their traumatic memories of women. A lot of women do this too when they adopt radfem tenets and make a ton of noise about how men are evil rapist shitlords.

Hell I'm not even innocent about being bitter when it comes to women. I remember coming back from the bar after a frustrating night and sitting on the porch with my frat brothers talking about how the dating scene is all kinds of fucked up, the women have too much power, and men should just boycott women until they check themselves (basically MGTOW long before I ever heard the term). My brothers correctly pointed out that even though they agreed with what I said and understood why I was saying it, it would never happen and shouldn't ever happen.

I agree that AWALT is a toxic belief. It's meant to be a warning that no relationship will survive giving the woman too much control, but it goes too far. I think a much more moderated belief that still fills the original purpose without the prejudice is "All Women Are Capable Of That". It's not that women will screw you and ruin your life if given a ghost of a chance, it's that boundaries matter and you must be careful who you give your trust to. Make sure they're a person of character and integrity and don't give them more than they deserve or you'll regret it. The exact same mindset can and should be adopted by women as well.

Who we choose to build our lives with and how is a reflection of ourselves, our self-esteem, our values and our integrity. Nobody, male or female should use another person as a means of bypassing our psychological imperatives to be the best person we can be. And when you are the person you're meant to be, finding the person you're meant to be with is much easier.

sariaru · 2015-05-04T15:05:37+00:00

The things that make me magenta rather than scarlet:

"Dread." - From what I've read on TRP about the 12 levels of dread game, it seems like a poor blowback response to the idea that women are looking to branch-swing/are hypergamous. It's manipulation, done with intent, with the effect of both parties trying to "one-up" every other person of the same gender as their SO. Fuck that, that's exhausting. I wouldn't play "dread" with my SO, and he doesn't with me. (We are married, though, so there's that. I could potentially understand a little gamesmanship in non-marriage situations.)
"Sex is a need for men." - Fuck right off with that shit. There are plenty of priests, monks, and other consecrated men who do just fine without having sex. Is the sexual drive, on average, stronger for men than women? Sure, I'd agree with that. But need? I promise celibacy isn't suicide.
AWALT. - Once you place a person in a category, it becomes harder to view them as an individual person. The more boxes you place them in, the harder it becomes. It's a problem with compartmentalizing individuals. My husband is not "an alpha" nor is he "a beta" as if that could sum someone up with a phrase. I could say that I'm "a Catholic, married, stay-at-home mother, who games, bakes bread, and knits," and not only would that be a horrendously poor summary of me as a person, it also sounds like the tagline for a mommy blog.
Advocating divorce/infidelity/premarital sex & cohabitation - As I mentioned, I'm Catholic, so all of these are sinful. Under no (and I mean no) circumstances would I divorce my husband. In cases of abuse or infidelity, I would leave, join a religious order (if my kids were grown) and not have sex for the rest of my life. I made a vow before God, and I'm going to keep it. The end. By saying "I do," to my husband, I said "I do not" to every other man on this planet. The reverse is true as well.

That being said, I think that a lot of what TRP has to say about men taking charge of their own life and truly setting out to lead and expecting a good and faithful woman to follow is beautiful and accurate. I've found a great deal of RP to be a pendulum effect from radical feminism, which is understandable. There is a healthy balance, which I think TRP calls "having some alpha, some beta."

davipbl · 2015-05-05T19:38:08+00:00

I consider myself someone tending to TRP philosophy. It is due to my distrust in people in general. What they argue about women can be easily transferred to men. When talking about 'science', it is shown both useful and schewed data, having 'no conclusion' on the subject.

What I can say is if you feel like you need a change of perspectives, you could apply it yourself what TRP has been teaching you. I mean, I can try doing different things and see if I get different and positive results.

Overall, I think the human being has the attitude of wanting what they can't have. And western cultures might have improved the discrepancy of how much men should aim to the top when comparing to women.

Scientifically speaking, I don't think there is any conclusive data about it. Empirically speaking, I can see why I can give TRP a try.

In the end, what matters is your satisfaction and the being open minded to change if you're not satisfied with your current situation without trespassing the other person's limits.

Edit: Grammar.

BlackHeart89 · 2015-05-08T19:41:51+00:00

Address the "no proof" claim. TRP is based of the individual's experiences. You match them to your own and go with it. I have a wide variety of people I associate with. From jocs, to thugs, to religious, non-religious, players, nerds, etc. Male and females. From what I've heard from their experiences, it confirms what TRP has said. But I will admit, I don't agree with everything TRP says. But I do agree with most of it.

AWALT is a generalization meant to address "most" women. Its a spectrum and deals with the core of drive of women. It isn't always a bad thing. Though its usually used in negative situations. You would have to lurk around long enough to fully grasp it. At the end of the day, there are some women who don't fall under this category.

Nitzi · 2015-05-03T22:32:41+00:00

Too many idiots not knowing shit about TRP and spouting their false idea of TRP.

About the TRP sub: The unwillingness to create a FAQ. Why should they still be discussing the same shit as 2 years ago. Why would I need one billion threads that just say "dread game works" when I could just sidebar a post that explains dread game, links to some good posts about it and then delete all threads that don't add anything new. The same goes for AF/BB, pedestalizing, frame, lock and key analogy and many many more. And I would move all anti-feminism, MRA, bluepill-example, ranting, venting posts to a different board. These sidebared posts would also prevent idiots who don't know shit about TRP to dilute the message with their gerbling.

Title	What are your personal problems with TRP ?
Author	HappilySingleWoman
Upvotes	12
Comments	224
Date	May 3, 2015 9:32 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/34r8f0/what_are_your_personal_problems_with_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-are-your-personal-problems-with-trp.282362 https://theredarchive.com/post/282362

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