Minor nuke event

jacktenofhearts · 2015-07-30T01:17:31+00:00

Most of the guys here are going to deconstruct this interaction in isolation, and laud you for communicating OI in the face of your wife's threats. I was about to do the same. Then I read through your post and comment history. These observations stand out.

My question: how do I slow this down? This is moving to fast and I am not equipped to handle this currently at the pace it has moved. I'm reading as much as I can and read Every post on here, but it has not fully sunk in. What can I do to slow this down?

Why do you want to slow this down, champ? A week ago you were here bragging:

STFU and watch her hamster do burnouts it kicks in so fast.

You mean this isn't what you wanted? You puffing your chest, the mighty alpha, snickering as her hamster runs itself ragged, rubbing your wife's complete lack of options in her face, and running off to MRP to brag about it?

When I read your previous post, I rolled my eyes and thought, "Yep, this guy is another 2 week warrior, and he's gonna be here in a week asking, 'I just got a Nuclear Shit Test, am I doing something wrong?'" But everyone was high-fiving you in the comments, just like they're mostly doing here.

Less Rock, more Oak. Your last MRP post made a comment about her hamster needing a "hip replacement." Yeah, well, that's better than letting the hamster steamroll you, but you're not making the hamster work for you. You're just sitting in the other room, watching it run out of control and then wondering why your wife is so distressed.

You wife seems like an anxious person. Anxious people often communicate their anxiety through anger. This is why it's not enough to be a Rock. The rock can withstand the anger, but she's still left with the anxiety. You will have a much less confrontational marriage if you respond in a way that does not just deflect her anger, but also deflects her anxiety.

Quick example: you managed taking over finances. A "rock move" is saying, "OK woman, I make the money, I'm gonna handle the bills. Don't worry your pretty little head about that anymore." An "oak move" is saying, "So it's time to get serious about our finances. I've put together this financial plan for our short/medium/long-term goals. This is the money we need to save to buy a house/save for college/invest in retirement, etc. This is how much is leftover for discretionary money. So I'm going to take my paycheck and [set up some plan where money is allocated as per your plan, and your wife only has access to the discretionary money]." You put in the work for a plan, a plan that included your family in the future, and you're going to take the lead on executing that plan. There's a lot less hamster food with that approach.

Winning Shit Tests as a "rock" can sometimes leave your wife with lingering resentment. Let's say you feel you deserve a raise at work. You storm into your boss's office, yelling about how undercompensated you are, you're pissed and you're going to quit if you don't get a raise. But realistically, you can't quit, you need the income from this job.

In one scenario, your boss says, "Well if you quit, I can't control that. I don't want you to quit, but if you do, send me your letter of resignation by the end of today." Your only move, knowing you can't actually quit because you need the paycheck, is to sheepishly exit his office and go back to work. You CAN'T quit, you HAVE to keep working. But you're going to have some lingering resentment. You definitely won't be motivated to be a hard worker and feel appreciated by your boss and your company.

In another scenario, your boss says, "Do I want you to quit? Of course not. We hired you for a reason. We don't want you to quit and I don't think you want to quit either. But you're asking me for a raise I can't give you. If you do insist on quitting, I can't do much about that."

Clearly, Scenario 2 is going to leave you feeling better about things. In both scenarios, the boss did not give you a raise. But in Scenario 2, you go back to work and you're still pretty happy. You COULD still quit, but you WANT to keep working.

We talked for a few more minutes about how she needed to slow down and we would spend some time apart by doing other things. Were not separating by any means but she wants to take a step back. I encouraged Her to take some time to find things that she enjoys doing cause that is what I am doing. She seems to be in shock about our conversation.

Yeah, this is the problem. You're passing Shit Tests but not because your wife is happily following her Alpha Captain's lead. You're passing them by being a rock, and you "win" by default. Your wife is a SAHM. Based on the "ban" on your daughter seeing her parents, your wife probably doesn't get along with them either. She feels isolated. You have a job, she doesn't. You have hobbies, she doesn't. You have a good relationship with your parents, she doesn't. That is probably manifesting as an enormous amount of anxiety, an enormous amount of Dread, without you even lifting a finger.

So don't kid yourself -- your wife, perhaps more than most of our wives here, is giving you Shit Tests that are very easy for you to "win." This is why she is calling you controlling. You're probably not being controlling, she just doesn't really have any "winning moves" she can play. Any response on your end that isn't sheer capitulation, and she just has to live with it. You're not being controlling, but she has no control.

When she says, "you can't control me," she's really saying, "you need to stop constantly acting in ways that remind me that I have no control."

So your problem is, dude... as a "rock," you just kind of keep rubbing her face in that fact, over and over again. Cliched as it sounds, she is, figuratively speaking, stuck between a rock and a hard place. This means she'll never come to the conclusion that, "I could be sweet or I could be a bitch -- hmm, it seems like my husband responds a lot better, and my family functions a lot better, when I'm sweet. I'll COULD be a bitch, but I WANT to be sweet."

Instead, she just keeps coming to this conclusion: "I COULD be sweet or I could be a bitch -- although if I'm a bitch, then my husband just reacts like an even bigger asshole. So I CAN'T be a bitch, I guess I HAVE to be sweet."

CAN'T/HAVE vs COULD/WANT. See the parallels with my "I want a raise" example?

Me: no, I am making changes to myself and they will continue no matter the outcome.

Compare that versus, "I want more out of my life and you and our daughter are part of that life. I want to be 95 years old and hosting a Christmas Eve party where our great grandchildren are there. We can't do that if we're not making the right choices with our health and our money. If that's 'controlling' then maybe we do have different ideas about what we want in our future, but I can't do anything about that."

She'd probably reply: "No, I want those things too, I just don't understand why you have to be so mean about it..."

You: "Well, those things require work and discipline. So yeah, discipline isn't always rainbows and sunshine. I want you to trust me and follow my lead. Maybe I haven't been clear about this, and this is why I seem 'mean.' But I can't stop you if you don't want to follow my lead."

By the way, if you want to immediately reconcile with your wife today, go see her now and say that shit to her. I would pretty much guarantee she'll melt in your arms and you'll have some awesome fucking makeup sex.

I'm not trying to say I have a handle on this and this is exactly what I have been trying to avoid by shutting my damn mouth and trying to avoid arguments and inject more fun into the family life.

Time to oak up, man. Your overall problem is you're viewing Shit Tests as just "you beating her." The "STFU" thing works. But you don't need to do it every damn time. Your value should be such that you can spare some oak now and then.

Gonna give you yet another example of an oak response from your previous post.

Well it was sex time this evening and she suddenly goes dark on me and says she can't get that blonde off her mind. I tell her her "whatever, that blonde is envying you right now cause you have me for tonight." She says she is going to bed and I tell her she is being childish and that blonde is keeping her from taking care of her husband. She's gone.

Why do you think that blonde was on her mind, dude? Because, deep down she had some anxiety that all it would take would be a sideways glance at a different woman, and you're gone, and she's a 30-something year old single mom with no job and few friends or hobbies. That anxiety manifested as anger. So yeah, you can STFU, and you'll deflect the anger. But you shouldn't wonder why she doesn't want to have sex. She's still anxious. Anxiety isn't a great state of mind for sexytimes.

You could reply with something like, "Does that blonde know how to mix my favorite cocktail?" or something else sweet that your wife does that you do, genuinely, appreciate. Again, key word is that the comparison your wife does that you consider particularly special. The blue beta bitch response is to say, "no honey, you're way more beautiful than that blonde," and that will just earn you more contempt. But tying your attraction to her behavior is a positive reinforcement you can do here. You can turn some Shit Tests into a response that will cause your wife to think: "ACT sweet -> GET comfort."

You're not watching the hamster dislocate a hip and snickering. You're making the hamster work for you.

The only way you can't do this is if your wife doesn't ever do anything exceptional for you, in which case, well, maybe you shouldn't have married a bitch.

TheStrenuousPelican · 2015-07-29T22:44:51+00:00

A minor nuke event sounds like being slightly pregnant.
You missed a few opportunities to STFU.
If PMS is at play, you missed the importance of STFU.
I try not to talk about working to improve myself. That invites questions or comments, neither of which I am interested in addressing. I will show improvement, not talk about it. Others may disagree. It is an elephant in the room, but talking about it only serves to invite shit testing.
Talk about news articles like this are usually shit tests. Respond accordingly.

I have enforced a strict "no arguing" rule on myself (not her). I will allow myself to respond logically once. If she counters, I am done. I ignore or treat it like a shit test. For me, I have found this helps to avoid the escalation you experienced by stopping the conversation before the hamster gets up to full speed.

RPAlternate42 · 2015-07-29T23:10:09+00:00

How do I slow this down?

You don't... at least you don't need to. You are moving at an appropriate pace. I don't see any amount of active dread, overt threats, etc.; you are simply standing your ground.

There are no half measures in RP, you either apply it or you don't.

Is this typical of a normal pace?

Pretty much. The effect is the same, but the amplitude is different. Some wives hate losing the "control" they were used to and some are more than happy to give up some but no wife seems down with letting her husband be his own man, at least not at the beginning (unless she regulars /r/RedPillWomen.)

Your toolbox

you are new so: Read the Sidebar

These are passive dread. You simply need to do these things and be normal around her. No need to flirt with other women in front of her yet and no need to actively do things that would lead her to believe you may be seeing other women (this comes later) Right now you simply do a series of regular activities that are perfectly harmless:

Lift
Join a club or sports team
Dress Better
Groom Better
Wear a fragrance
Wear new underwear

These things are alarming to her because they hit the signs your husband is cheating list items in Cosmo-type magazines. You aren't cheating, but those lists are basically RP-to-do lists for men. Follow them.

Never DEER

You said this:

no, I am making changes to myself and they will continue no matter the outcome.

And this 100% correct. You didn't Defend, Explain, Excuse, or Rationalize your behavior; you simply told her what is and will be.

Empty Threats

She has a string of threats she gave you:

she says she is taking our daughter to her parents

what if that means I leave you and take your daughter?

These are empty. She is pushing you, shit-testing you to an extreme point. You are asserting control of yourself and she is attempting to threaten you in order to bring you down. Your responses were good.

These types of things she is saying are simply how she feels now. I'm interested to see how she was at the end of that day? My bet is she was a little more submissive and a little more endearing towards you. This happens because the hamster spins down after it's tired and she gets a little sad and wants comfort and attention to make her feel better.

Then she said this:

what? You would leave me? I can't believe you would say that.

You never seemed to say this in what you wrote. If you never said this, then she is gaslighting; creating a made up scenario to paint the abuser (you) as worse than you are actually are. Ignore it. Any attention given to gaslighting lends it weight.

In fact she said she was leaving and your stance was whatever the outcome and that she won't get your daughter.

It's working

This line is the sign that you are doing everything right:

you can't control me. You need to stop what your doing right now, I want my husband back.

Your changes are noticeable and alarming to her. Remember, women love men they can't control, but they will shit test you in the process to prove they can't control you and to prove they want you.

Other things to consider

my SMV is still a work in progress but much better than my wife's.

Your SMV is nothing unless she sees it as higher. This is the top end of passive dread: being in public with her and having her see other women noticing you and seeing you interact with other women in an in-control and abundant way.

Don't slow down and don't speed up... this seems to be the perfect speed for you to run at.

Continue to maintain OI with regards to sexual activity, but look at the first couple of I'm tired's as LMR. Try to push through it and if she says a hard no, go do what you want.

Finally, STFU more. You talked too much when hanging up was a better option. You don't need to have a conversation with anyone who isn't pleasant to converse with.

druganswer · 2015-07-30T00:15:32+00:00

you banned your kids from seeing their grandparents? that would require a pretty good reason (like: drugs, child abuse, etc.)... and she doesn't agree with your reasoning on it? what the fuck?

also, banning people from doing things is pretty fucking controlling... the term you're looking for is establishing boundaries, I think... but the grandparents thing is still blowing my mind?

What would I suggest you should have done on that call? I may have fallen into the same trap you did... She got you my friend... in the name of being alpha and tough you "showed her who was boss" (and subsequently fell into an emotional argument) when you should have just put in some amused mastery. So she called you? Where were you? You could have deflected this for a bit and given yourself some time to think it over by saying you were busy, not talking about this right now, we can talk when I'm home etc..

I'm not sure the line i would have used but depending on your wife i'm sure the right line could have defused the situation... if she presses tell her you're reading the kama sutra and you'll show her exactly what you've learned later that night... basically this is one of those situations you should have probably NOT taken her seriously... if she wants to have this conversation she can do it in a much more rational, less accusatory way.

Her: you can't control me. You need to stop what your doing right now, I want my husband back.

Me: no, I am making changes to myself and they will continue no matter the outcome.

Her: what if that means I leave you and take your daughter?

Me: that would be unfortunate, it won't happen, and yes if you decide you are gonna take something you don't understand out of context that far, I did say whatever the outcome. And you won't get my daughter.

Her: what? You would leave me? I can't believe you would say that.

Me: I don't want it to come to that but I'm done with being unhappy.

Oh boy, once the convo got this emotional you were fucked but i'll give it a shot.

Anyway, I guess you could have said "I can't control you, I can only control myself, and I'm making changes to become the man I want to be."

What if I leave/take your daughter? "That would be unfortunate, but that is ultimately your decision to make." Make a point that you'll always be a part of your daughters life and perhaps hint that she shouldn't be using your children as pawns in an argument, because that's fucked up.

then she literally twists her threatening to leave into being your words lol... I guess your answer is fine because anything else you're going to get in deeper back and forth woman argument...

nipping this in the bud before it got to this insane argument would have been best.

IanIronwood · 2015-07-29T22:58:02+00:00

Repeat after me: "Your control issues are not my problem. I'm trying to run a family, here."

Hold frame like a champ. She'll stage a scene trying to out-drama you, but you need to just maintain your stoic coolness and watch with quiet amusement.

Blackthorn8 · 2015-07-29T23:47:30+00:00

I think she did some snooping and found some browser history or something that brought her to this sub. Why would she call you ask what you've been reading? Then ask again? Then tell you,"you're so controlling" especially when you left on good terms that morning. Doesn't add up.

Think about that first and plan accordingly. It seems like she was testing your frame from jump street. The funniest part is she says I'll leave you and when you say that may happen, she responds with "you'd really leave me?" Geez, that fucking hamster is strong with this one.

I'll let others more established recommend different courses of action, just wanted to point out you may no longer be operating in the dark.

UEMcGill · 2015-07-29T23:12:36+00:00

I don't fault you with the content of the conversation. Sometimes it needs to be out in the open, "I don't need you". Notice how it's perfectly acceptable for her to run away with your daughter, but she doesn't think you would leave her? This was a reaction to her waning power. So while you may think your SMV is better than your wife's, at the moment she thinks you need her more. She's trying to get you to wail and say "don't leave!!". It's probably a really shitty comfort test.

Keep on being stoic, move forward with you MAP. Try to stay away from telling her to find things that make her happy, instead put it in terms of "I can't make you happy, only you can, but I will support you in anything you wish". Her feelings are hers to manage.

Boundaries are fine. In the case of your daughter not going to her parents, next time tell her "If you need to go, I won't stop you, but don't put her in the middle of this." I assume there's a valid reason the daughter isn't allowed.

Remember the we don't dictate what we want to our wives. They are free to do what ever they want. But there are rules for behavior and boundaries. You're the prize and she can choose to be with you, and as such follow the conditions you set forth.

In the future don't engage her on the phone. Tell her, "I reserve the right to have this discussion at home face to face." Don't let her badger you into anything otherwise. I don't think you have a STFU problem, per se, just that you need to control the rules of engagement better. Freak out and go on a crying binge? Nope, I won't discuss until you're a rational human again. Call me on the phone and freak out? Nope. Corner me right before bed? Nope. These are all things women try to do to get you into their frame. They are emotional combatants and will try to attack you with guerrilla war style of hit and run. The best bet is to not engage, until you are ready to talk on your own terms. They are covert communicators and on there terms will not resort to overt communication unless forced to,

BluepillProfessor · 2015-07-30T03:06:45+00:00

Her: what if that means I leave you and take your daughter?

Me: that would be unfortunate, it won't happen, and yes if you decide you are gonna take something you don't understand out of context that far, I did say whatever the outcome. And you won't get my daughter.

Her: what? You would leave me? I can't believe you would say that.

This hamster is doing backflips.

how do I slow this down? This is moving to fast and I am not equipped to handle this currently at the pace it has moved.

What exactly does this mean? You are only on about level 1 Dread from what I can see. You have responded appropriately to a few Shit Tests and are standing up for yourself.

Let me run this through the hamsturlator for you:

Her: you can't control me. I CONTROL YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE MY BITCH. You need to stop what your doing right now, I want my ~~husband~~ BETA BITCH WHO DOES WHATEVER I SAY back...BUT IF I GET WHAT I (THINK I) WANT THEN I WILL DEFINITELY LEAVE.

p8sh_it · 2015-07-29T22:46:51+00:00

A and A would be your best method to deflect this. I've a lurker here but there are numerous posts about what to say about this. You need to talk less and read more.

STFU.

Don't do this stuff on the phone.

oh and STFU.

You can handle this better in person, so, in the future just say you'll talk about it later.

The in person you could say, as many of the experienced writers have noted something like, "Ya, I'm an asshole, but you married me. " and wink and slap her ass.

You should be playing the long game. I've noticed that most newbies think they can do it in a week.

alphabeta49 · 2015-07-29T22:50:29+00:00

My brain immediately thinks of all the times that my daughter has told me she does not like me and does not love me Just out of the blue.

Made my blood boil just reading. That's a pretty clear picture of how ~~much she doesn't respect you~~ not respectable you are.

I looked at her and asked her what was bothering Her(mistake?)

Yeah, mistake. If you hadn't done that, it might have gone differently. But it happened.

I tell her flat "no, end if story I won't discuss this anymore"

But then you continue discussing? Sounds weak to me.

From what I can tell, the rest of it was handled pretty well. Especially if you actually talked as little as you say you did, what you actually said was solid. And you handled it better than I did when I first started making waves. I literally said to my wife during a blowout (with an asshole smirk): "you're just mad that you're losing control." Not my brightest moment to rub it in her face so overtly.

So you're taking a step back. Have you a plan for your spare time? This is really the time to step up regarding your daughter. Take her on dates, have tickle wars (I'm too lazy to look through your post history to find out how old she is), be the fun parent.

shutting my damn mouth and trying to avoid arguments and inject more fun into the family life

This is it man. And... are you lifting, reading, being awesome on your own?

Is my wife just extremely on top of pushing back on this or is this typical of a normal pace?

In my experience, this is about right.

asalways01 · 2015-07-30T02:13:39+00:00

"no, I'm making changes to myself (...)"

The moment you lost, man... You acted beta, as if you owed her any explanation of your life. She sensed weakness and went for the kill after that.

"She demanded to know what I'm reading."

If she finds out about the Red Pill and the books you have been reading, the animosity between you two will increase ten fold. I seriously advise you to clear the browser history, conceal the books, etc.

dandar4600 · 2015-07-30T13:05:44+00:00

Regarding letting her know what you're reading, I'd like input from the mods but my wife knows I read NMMNG. She downloaded an audiobook demo (1st chapter only) just because she thought I was reading a book on how to become an asshole. After listening to it, she kind of calmed down. Also MMSLP is kind of written with a woman in hindsight. I think these are ok for the wife of a freshly unplugging guy to see.

turbosympathique · 2015-07-30T03:02:46+00:00

Look the power dynamic is changing and she is freaking out!

Use this angle to deal with your wife issue.

Title	Minor nuke event
Author	itstartstoday123
Upvotes	14
Comments	51
Date	July 29, 2015 10:20 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/3f34wh/minor_nuke_event/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/minor-nuke-event.201326 https://theredarchive.com/post/201326

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