What to say when feminists say men have more privilege than women and women have more issues than men what should i say in return to counter their argument?

CringeCaptainI · 2021-03-09T09:58:51+00:00

Bettering the world for both genders isnt a competition. Unfair treatment is unfair, no matter if someone might have it worse.

Even if assuming the majority of women have it worse than the majority of men, some men still have it worse than most women.

It's not about groups and Identity as it's about fairness. How does it hurt feminism to improve life of men too?

DanteLivra · 2021-03-09T14:13:31+00:00

On macro scale it's debatable. But the real question is, do you want men and women to work together in order to build a better tomorrow or do you just want to win the victim olympics ?

Saying to men that their issues don't matters won't make men care more about feminism, indeed we already see it, men reject feminism because it explicitly doesn't care about their issues, why should they care in return ?

2021-03-09T14:12:41+00:00

Statistics like male suicide, homelessness, violence, being victims of crime, loneliness, death in dangerous work, conscription... male disposability in general.

They'd surely start gaslighting you though.

a-man-from-earth · 2021-03-09T07:31:44+00:00

Answer with facts. Start with /u/TheTinMenBlog's work.

Oncefa2 · 2021-03-09T13:22:38+00:00

To begin with, there are legal rights that women have and men don't.

However, every legal right that men have, women also have

Men are lacking bodily autonomy rights, parental rights, custodial rights, reproductive rights, and a few others.

Couldn't we just pass a couple laws giving men equal legal rights to women? Is that not fair? Is that not what gender equality means?

Blauwpetje · 2021-03-09T08:25:12+00:00

https://quillette.com/2020/07/27/the-myth-of-pervasive-misogyny/

Blauwpetje · 2021-03-09T08:23:36+00:00

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/2020-update-for-every-100-girls-part-i/

adam-l · 2021-03-09T09:56:48+00:00

"I believe there is no point in arguing with feminists." - Roy Baumeister

Colonel_Khazlik · 2021-03-09T14:06:45+00:00

Death, homelessness (1:10), worse sentencing for equivalent crime. They're the big one.

gregathon_1 · 2021-03-09T15:38:23+00:00

Show them this fact sheet, it lays out a refutation to that idea:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RDnpCSIghRBlsXoY-YOG3jtfG7ELEkn995KkC0OqHro/edit

Also, tell them there are better things to worry about rather than oppression olympics. We should be worrying about each other’s issues instead of competing to see who has more privilege or oppression. That’s worthless and counterproductive.

Long_Cut_7015 · 2021-03-09T19:30:00+00:00

Simply prove that in a lot of areas men and boys are disadvantaged and discriminated against. but you need to understand that some people don't care about facts. don't waste your time with them. live thel alone and educate other people who are open minded instead of wasting your time who respond to everything you say by "this is patriarchy"

Our goal is not to convince everyone. but to convince enough people to make change happen.

BloomingBrains · 2021-03-11T08:35:24+00:00

You could read Christina Hoff Sommers "The War On Boys" and "Who Stole Feminism". Lot of evidence and good statistics.

Alataire · 2021-03-09T11:53:21+00:00

That is not an argument. If it is supposed to be an argument of "this incredibly generalised group has it worse than the other", you can always point out that there are women in repressive regimes who have it better. For them the same argument would apply, so according to this 'argument' the women in developed countries can be ignored because those in <oppressive regime> have it worse..

adorablyshocked · 2021-03-09T14:28:01+00:00

I think you may be a little too broad here, are you talking about the whole world's gender issues or a specific country's? The only way you can debate the veracity of a fact is with more facts (which will depend on what country you are talking about)

But on a macro scale, considering that most people live in poor/developing countries, you take the risk of generalizing too much, especially considering that most global organizations recognize that women have fewer opportunities than men worldwide.

And anyway, it shouldn't be a competition.

AskingToFeminists · 2021-03-09T15:09:57+00:00

There's several approaches, depending on what you wish to accomplish.

I tend to prefer the socratic questioning : "how did you determine that? "

"If I were to tell you that Arthur is richer than Bill, because Arthur has 2000$, would you find that information sufficient to conclude? Are there anything missing?"

"If I were to tell you that Chris is better off than David because Chris has a wife and kids and a job, while David is in debt of 1000000€, would you agree that it's true? Are those informations sufficient to draw conclusions?"

The idea is to get them to realize that cherry picking what's bad for one side, and what's good for another is a flawed way to conclude that one side has it better than the other, particularly if you ignore what might be negative for the one side and positive for the other. By operating this way, you can make Trump look worse off than a homeless person. IIRC, at one point in his career, Trump joked that he was poorer than the homeless, because of how in debt he was, and so anyone who owned 2$ was richer than he was. But that's obviously ridiculous, as he still owned buildings and all.

What I notice, usually, is that those who say that know nothing about men's issues and dismiss the idea out of hand. Women have it worse because women face issues. The only possible underlying assumption is that men face none. And that women have no benefit over men.

But all of this is rather a fool's errand. The oppression Olympic is preposterous. All issues deserve to be addressed, no mater who has it worst.

2021-03-10T00:07:06+00:00

Ask them who works in factories? At construction sites? Who lives in the majority of homeless shelters?

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