Didn't you notice that MGTOW are very obsessed with women ? and they don't give give a sh*t about men's rights !

Oncefa2 · 2020-08-14T01:44:23+00:00

I discovered MGTOW before I discovered the MRM.

I was looking up stuff about prenups because my then girlfriend wanted to get married, and that's what popped up.

I remember saying something along the lines that I don't hate women, I just wish we could do something about marriage and divorce laws.

I was downvoted for some silly reason like "not understanding female nature".

Discovering men's rights was a huge breath of fresh air. It meant that other people saw the same problems I was seeing. And they were actually doing something productive about it.

I've since helped lobby for better child custody laws. I'll probably keep doing it until something passes. Even if I'm old and unmarried when it happens. I'm not going to wallow in self pity and take my anger out on women. Because honestly if I was a woman, I'd do the same thing. The problem is the system. If we had better laws in place, I think things would sort themselves out naturally over time.

Love is a wonderful thing and it's heartbreaking when legal statutes stand in the way of it. You should never have to ask whether or not your rights as a husband or a father are going to be protected. You should be able to have faith in the system and live your life without that kind of worry.

2020-08-14T08:24:33+00:00

yeah but that's like saying /pornfree/ only ever talk about porn. I don't mind MGTOW as a concept and talking about women is fine. the trump worship and T_D atmosphere is all a bit stupid for me though

AskingToFeminists · 2020-08-14T10:10:21+00:00

I guess it depends on which part of MGTOW you are speaking about. The thing to understand is that a lot of the most noisy MGTOWs are in full blown red pill rage. They had plenty of illusions of the system being fair and just to men, just to have those illusions ripped from them often in a very brutal way. It's the same kind of phenomenon you see in people who leave cults. After realizing that they have been fooled, they are angry at all the people around them who can't see what they see, understand what they understand. It takes a while to recover from learning that you were in a delusion, and it takes more time to reconstruct yourself and your worldview now that you are free of that delusion. And it is often accompanied by some overcorrection. And so, the most active MGTOWs are those. And all they talk about is the delusion they were trapped in, and how it's false.

The thing is, after a while, you move on. And you go your own way. And that way is yours, and doesn't really need to be discussed with random strangers. There are some MGTOW channels out there, where the MGTOW in question is actually going his own way, and discussing what that way is, focusing on philosophy, on self improvement and self actualisation.

But it is anger that makes the most noise, and gets the most shares. So it is the angry ones talking about things that makes them angry, that get the most attention.

Obviously, places like r/MGTOW are a seething pool of hate and hanger and hurt. Few people self actualize through discussing on reddit. So those who move on to self actualization have mostly gone somewhere else.

To me, the main reason why places like r/MGTOW are different from places like support groups for ex-jehova's witnesses is that rejecting the JW is the norm throughout society, while acknowledging how fucked up the system is regarding its treatment of men is a good way to get shunned by most of society. If the JW had the same kind of influence over society that gynocentrism has, I can assure you that the groups for ex jehova's witnesses would look much more like r/MGTOW.

There are plenty of MGTOWs who are also MRAs. People like DrRandomerCam. People who recognize that the system is fucked up, and that when you make the cost/benefit analisys of romantic relationships, it's not really worth it, and who work to try to make it worth it again.

But there are plenty of MGTOWs who aren't interested in being activists. And I wouldn't blame them. Activism is hard and time consuming, and while some people find purpose in it, there's plenty of other ways to find purpose in life that are just as worthy. And for those, you won't hear about them, because they dedicate themselves to something else, not making waves clamoring they are going their own way. Even if you hear about them, you might not realize that they are going their own way, because you hear about them for what they accomplished, not for whether they shun romantic relationships or not.

liztu_june · 2020-08-14T05:52:08+00:00

Yep there a reason why many MRA dislike them.

antilopes · 2020-08-14T04:31:31+00:00

If MGTOW was truly about men forging their own path there'd be no need for their bitter misogynist ideology.

I have a feeling that a lot of regulars on the old MGTOW sub were incels desperately trying to convince themselves that their lack of "sexual success" was a choice.

OkLetterhead9 · 2020-08-14T01:00:23+00:00

Exactly bro thanks for saying it, most mgtows are tradcons.

enjoycarrots · 2020-08-15T14:31:17+00:00

I think there is a selection bias here. MGTOW who don't talk about women probably don't talk very much about MGTOW one way or another. MGTOW isn't about improving men's health or improving education for boys. It's about escaping from gendered expectations that have to do with their utility to women. I do imagine there are a large number of MGTOW who care about other issues men face, but they might not frame those issues as "Hi, I'm a MGTOW and because of that I'm here to talk about..."

That said. Yeah, there's a lot of women hating and bitterness there in those communities. Some of those guys have moved past a skeptical look at gender roles into downright demonizing the female gender. I think this is also selection bias. The guys who choose to "go their own way" without the bitterness don't have as much to contribute to those communities, and when they do, they get put off by the bitterness and blaming and don't stick around. There are a lot of online communities that have this unfortunate dynamic where the most upset people naturally float to the top and represent the community.

Wondering_Z · 2020-08-17T07:19:52+00:00

Asking why mgtow talk about women is like asking why recovering drug addicts talk about drugs.

bopbeepboopbeepbop · 2020-08-14T08:29:54+00:00

MGTOW: "We are going our own way! We do not need women! We are independent of them! We will separate ourselves from women!"

Also MGTOW: "womenwomenwomenwomenwomenwomenwomenwomenwomenwomenwomenwomenwomenfemaleswomen"

Blauwpetje · 2020-08-14T11:12:13+00:00

Are they that important? They're like preachers mixing in discussions shouting: MGTOW is the solution, and that's all I see them do. So I see no reason not to simply ignore them.

matrixislife · 2020-08-14T12:11:57+00:00

MGTOW are men defining themselves by their walking away from relationships with women. Of course they are going to talk about women. It's like a football sub talking about football, or the lack of it.

They aren't "a serious problem", they just haven't come to the same conclusions we have.

2020-08-14T17:52:02+00:00

Tough guy posturing. Helping other men? Not on their watch.

CoffeehasSentience · 2020-08-14T19:25:57+00:00

I think people who are obsessed about X-rights tend to also be kind of obsessed (but a bit less) with Y. And is it bad? I don't know. Comparison points are useful a lot of times.

IntactBroadSword · 2020-08-14T01:52:44+00:00

r/promalecollective

Title	Didn't you notice that MGTOW are very obsessed with women ? and they don't give give a sh*t about men's rights !
Author	OkLetterhead9
Upvotes	19
Comments	41
Date	August 14, 2020 12:57 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/i9c9hv/didnt_you_notice_that_mgtow_are_very_obsessed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/didnt-you-notice-that-mgtow-are-very-obsessed-with.1062978 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062978

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