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Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds

_reficio_

October 11, 2022
107 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63217557
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Title Switzerland discriminating against men on pension benefits, ECHR finds
Author

_reficio_

Upvotes 107
Comments 26
Date October 11, 2022 3:43 PM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/y1ccda/switzerland_discriminating_against_men_on_pension/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/switzerland-discriminating-against-men-on-pension.1134193
https://theredarchive.com/post/1134193
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Comments

[–]_reficio_1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

Good news from Switzerland - and good to see this on the front page of the BBC. The European Court of Human Rights found a Swiss man was discriminated against because he is male.

Currently, women whose husbands die are paid a pension for the rest of their lives, while men only receive payments if they have children under 18.

The "male breadwinner" concept is not enough to justify this, the ECHR found.

BBC report suggests laws hadn't kept pace with the changing dynamics of employment:

The court found that the role of women in the workplace had changed, and so the discrepancy violated Article 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights in discriminating against men.

[–]bloodfuel 29 points30 points31 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Glad to see there is progress being made.

[–]funnystor 23 points24 points25 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Next, the court should go after the Swiss draft of men. And the Finnish one.

[–]psylikik 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

And the American one, and the one in Argentina, Russia, Ukraine, everywhere. Fuck selective service.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Argentina doesnt have conscription.

[–]psylikik 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Real shit? All the more reason to get my 2nd citizenship there.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeap. Go for it.

[–]YesAmAThrowaway 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And the German one. They only paused the constitutional article that enables it. Can be re-activated at a whim.

[–]Jonathanese 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps. Or better yet might be extending their mandatory training to women as well.

My understanding is that the mandatory training has a great number of social benefits and is why some countries have kept them, despite being progressive. Perhaps we can form a good alternative.

For instance, in many cases, rich and poor alike must inhabit the same places and receive the training. There was an article talking about this in the UK, that it puts everyone on an even keel.

Another is that the bonds formed during this time often last lifetimes, and people of very different backgrounds have become lifelong friends, and some have started major businesses together.

Another is that such training serves as a "becoming a man" ritual for young men. I can talk about the relevance of this, but in summary, it has less to do with proving to the world that you are a man, and more to do with the mental health of the men themselves. Such rituals that have isolation, training and trials, proof of completion, returning to the group, and being celebrated for such completion. In basically that order. In adolescent males, we have basically a deep-rooted insecurity that can be summarized as "you must prove your worth or face impending abandonment". "Becoming a man" rituals are common not necessarily for "culling bad soldiers" but probably more for the benefit of the male undergoing the trial. It serves as a clear point at which you can tell yourself "I have shown my worth. I have a place here."

Given the emotional issues women have been facing in the modern day as their roles have expanded, this very thing may serve also benefit women as well. It would formally establish women as equals for facing the same trials and tribulations, and prove both to others and themselves that they are not "visitors to a male workforce" as I have heard many women say they feel.

So if we can come up with a similar replacement (college kinda does this, but the process needs to be formalized) then we can keep the benefits without the nonconsensual conscription.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There is a courtcase about the Swiss draft pending in the same court right now.

[–]funnystor 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's great! What about the Finnish one? If the Swiss draft gets overturned will the Finnish one also be automatically overturned?

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No case about this from Finland im afraid.

[–]griii2left-wing male advocate 38 points39 points40 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I can't wrap my head around how gender retirement gap could be legal in any democratic country. Yet it is still quite common https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_age

[–]Bobsempletonk 18 points19 points20 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I mean I'm not sure the Swiss are a bastion of progressiveness. They only allowed women the vote in the 1970s iirc

[–]funnystor 24 points25 points26 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And they still draft men.

[–]Pael-eSports1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

They sure do, and thats a good thing. Especially in these times.

[–]funnystor 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

thats a good thing

No, it's a sexist thing. Even if you think a draft is necessary there's no reason to base it on gender.

[–]Digedag 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Is there any threat of somebody invading Switzerland?

[–]NimishApteleft-wing male advocate 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The last Swiss Canton to allow women to vote was in 1991.

[–]fcsquadleft-wing male advocate 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The Swiss government is discriminating against men in its rules on pension benefits, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has found.

Finally! Some official recognition of legal bias against men.

The decision is expected to reopen a long-running debate in Switzerland about …

And it looks like even Switzerland and the BBC are going to have to come to grips with—

… how much power European judges should have over domestic law.

Fuck.

[–]Sydnaktik 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The decision is expected to reopen a long-running debate in Switzerland about …

I despise this kind of journalist weasel language. Expected by whom?

Half the time it's a complete fabrication, and half of what's left is stretching the truth but sometimes it's true.

[–]Zaronaxleft-wing male advocate 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I despise this kind of journalist weasel language. Expected by whom?

By other journalists who are in need to push a "controversial" topic to fulfill their self-imposed virtue signaling requirements.

Typically Feminist journalists, in cases like this, who'll also make up lies about how "bad" this is for women.

[–]Tagada-tsouintsouin 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A vote took place a few years ago in Switzerland to "'stop foreign judges" (or sth like that)

It was rejected by 70% of the population.

The debate is pretty much settled, this is just a journalist adding drama.

[–]fcsquadleft-wing male advocate 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Adding drama" and, I strongly suspect, deliberately reframing the issue away from what's really central: official, legal bias against men.

[–]Alataire 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From what I remember there was a man just one or two years ago who became a woman just in order to have a pension a year earlier. If material benefits like these exists that is hardly surprising...

[–]SuspicousEggSmell 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not that this is good news per se, but it is still nice to see this actually given some amount of justice and focus, which is progress

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