Is it legal for a teacher to do this?

RBGolbat · 2013-12-17T08:35:07+00:00

Legal? Probably.

Professional? Nope.

Funcuz · 2013-12-17T12:47:41+00:00

Tough to say since I don't know what the kid said. It may actually be that he's getting off lightly.

For example , if he said "Women are idiots and they all need [something perverted or disgusting or violent]" then the teacher's actually being pretty nice about it.

If , on the other hand he simply said something like "Why do women always complain ?" then ,while a generalization , it may be true from his experience for all we know. In that case the teacher's probably being a bitch.

vga_port · 2013-12-17T08:10:36+00:00

source: http://jaffacakesareyummy.tumblr.com/

theDarkAngle · 2013-12-17T11:17:16+00:00

My only problem with it is where it says "... to women".

Again. I resent that an entire gender has protections against words.

Your_Bacon_Counselor · 2013-12-17T14:02:20+00:00

The real question is would this be legal if the genders were reversed.

That is acid test of equality. Any policy that cannot withstand this test is not about equality.

2013-12-17T14:18:08+00:00

IMHO the teacher crossed the line when the class was invited to take pictures by the teacher. The "punishment" will now go on out side of the classroom.

Hawkmoth5 · 2013-12-17T11:29:35+00:00

Well... if one of my teachers did this (as a principal/superintendent) they would face their own disciplinary action (write up) because of the word "stupid," and the implication is "Riley is stupid." It's completely unprofessional, I would legitimately worry that the student's parent would make a formal complaint. If it said "My name is Riley and I call women thundercoonts." I would likely only verbally reprimand the teacher because it's specific, and the discipline is about identifying and addressing a specific unwanted behavior.

However, this type of "creative discipline" it's probably better than a whole host of other disciplinary actions, like suspension or expulsion, which is possible for harassing language in a lot of districts. We have zero tolerance, which often means zero options when dealing with disciplinary issues.

I like/prefer "creative discipline" in Jr/SR HS if it is effective and does no harm. Shaming students does harm. Always. My best teachers care enough about their students to find ways to creatively discipline without invoking "zero tolerance" for normal/minor infractions.

SRSLovesGawker · 2013-12-17T11:05:23+00:00

"My name is Riley and I'm about to bring an administrative nightmare down on an english teacher with more bravado than brains."

Camgore · 2013-12-17T10:03:57+00:00

no real context

Pecanpig · 2013-12-17T09:46:46+00:00

Legal in BC? Nope.

lafielle · 2013-12-17T08:35:54+00:00

What a disgusting human being...

To be clear: the teacher, not the student.

2013-12-17T08:37:05+00:00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunce_cap

Although seemingly (and possibly initially) intended to punish the student with the lowest academic performance in the class (the "dunce"), such a use could hardly have been very successful, as pure punishment is incapable of increasing intelligence. It is likely it was used far more successfully to rein in rebellious or disrespectful students and unite the class against misbehavior by making an example of the offender and forcing them to endure the collective scorn of their classmates for a set period of time. Since no one wanted to be labeled the "dunce" in the class social hierarchy, even for only a short period of time, it served as an effective deterrent to acting out.

In modern pedagogy dunce caps are extremely rare, as most current educational systems consider behavior modification via public humiliation to be both politically incorrect and potentially psychologically traumatizing for schoolchildren, instead advocating systems of "praise in public, punish in private." In some districts, singling out a child for humiliation with the dunce cap (or similar methods) may even be considered criminal harassment or child abuse, exposing the teacher to termination of employment, lawsuits, or prosecution.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/02/21/the-reeducation-camps-of-multicultural-america/

Not all are feeling humiliated though. Some of that laughter is the cackle of victory, of triumph, of sweet sweet tribal vengeance. Affiliation matters, and the speaker is clear that not all in the audience are designated targets.

2013-12-17T16:59:54+00:00

It's not illegal, but you can bet your ass that singling out and shaming a student is unacceptable behavior and grounds for losing their job.

CorncobJohnson · 2013-12-17T09:37:30+00:00

I'm sure the teacher was just trying to embarrass him. I have had a few teachers that did stuff like this. It's always the fun teachers that do stuff like this; so ya know their just fucking around and having fun.

blueoak9 · 2013-12-17T17:51:38+00:00

It's about as legal as hanging a sign on an under-dressed girl student saying "I am a dirty whore whoring after these boys." which I hope to God is as illegal as hell. What disgusting child abuse either of these is.

Illegal or not, her suitability to teach had damned sure better be under re-consideration immediately. This was grossly unprofessional.

lachoigin · 2013-12-17T14:44:45+00:00

Anything that encourages high school students to take humiliating pictures of one another and put the on the internet should be illegal, in my opinion.

Everything_Is_Rape · 2013-12-17T18:48:25+00:00

My only complaint is the teacher spelled "rape" wrong...like really wrong.

Simultanagnosia · 2013-12-17T22:03:26+00:00

Legal or not, public shaming has limited efficacy in a small range of situations and has the potential of engendering mass homicide.

Hawkmoth5 · 2013-12-20T03:10:12+00:00

This is complicated and not easy for people not in the profession to understand rationally. Teachers are often the second most influential group of adults in a child's life. It is a big responsibility. I've been a teacher for about 20 years. I'll share how I see it.

An adult has one primary job when it comes to children and that is to prepare them. There is a hierarchy of concerns when we deal with children and they shift and change with each situation depending on our objectives. I am, ultimately, not there to protect them from adversity, or make them feel good about themselves, or teach them math. All of those ideas are kept in mind, but my ultimate goal is to see a child become a good adult.
As I mentioned in a reply somewhere, if you do not wish to be shamed, then do not do shameful things. Embarrassment and shame are there to let us know that we have done something worth thinking about. Most children have this already and there is often no need to feed it. Most, not all. Sometimes a child should be shamed and feel the consequences of their action. The most poignant lessons of my life have been when I have come face to face with my mistakes and seen the hurt I have done. I am grateful for my conscience. That said, see 3.
Part of preparing a child is ensuring that the adversity they face is rational and not overwhelming. Take a child to a place where they are overwhelmed by emotion, be it fear or guilt, and they will learn nothing. They will only see that pain. It is ineffective. Also, children do not understand the process of mistake, shame, do better, forgive, move on. A single action in a class can define that student for what will seem like a lifetime. Inadvisable. A good teacher reads the situation and can make the right play. It is all about changing behaviour and instilling pride and confidence in a student’s ability to grow.
Most teachers are like everyone else. They want to go to work and not have a bunch of crazy stuff happen. If a teacher is putting that much effort into disciplining a child, there are reasons and I will bet they involve that child. Most people I have ever known who bitch about how teachers treated them were not ideal students. A student who does not invite trouble will rarely find it. Because teachers are just as lazy as everyone else. I, personally, don't have the energy to mess with kids who are just doing their job.
Since coming back and teaching in Canada the bullying thing has really exploded. I'm impressed. I've had to clarify some things with my students, though. Poor conflict resolution skills does not mean bullying. Conflict is not necessarily bullying. One thing that I explain to them is that if you are being mean or doing something to another student that you know they don't like and then they retaliate, that is not bullying. If a student would like nothing more than to disengage from you and not have a relationship with you at all, then they are not bullies. If you push them and they crush you, they are not bullies. Chances are, you were warned. Now, to an extent, my classroom works the same way. I often explain to students that we will start with the nice conversation. I will ensure that my instructions are understood. And let's be clear here, my rules for my class are few, but I do have standards and if they are not kept then I will consider all the variables and deal with the situation. The student may not feel so good after the not nice conversation, but again, there would have been ample warning. I will explain that in every situation I will seek to explain and educate. Failing that, I train. We can talk, but at a certain point I make the student have a bad day.

I am not saying there are no terrible teachers. There are plenty. But always look at both sides. Much of what I'm hearing here is limited in perspective and experience. There is so much more to teaching.

pubbing · 2013-12-17T19:11:58+00:00

Holy crap guys, I think some of you might be starting to get a little extremist about your views here. Just because somebody stands up for a woman or something is said about a woman you guys start to get all "MEN TOOOOOOOO" and a little bit crazy.

Just because men haven't been discussed in a situation or sometimes we use the word women instead of people as a matter of context for the situation doesn't make it misandry.

This is just like the crazy rad fem's getting worked up over "men" being in the word "women" and it is starting to get a little bit ridiculous.

cbarrett1989 · 2013-12-17T11:14:24+00:00

It seems like the kid is laughing so whatever. I said dumb shit to girls in high school all the time. Did this ever happen, nope.

pubbing · 2013-12-17T15:18:59+00:00

You know I really don't see the problem with this. Teaching a high school kid to respect women doesn't seem like a bad thing.

Jesus_marley · 2013-12-17T12:37:50+00:00

This is a form of proxy violence. The teacher is inviting scorn from the collective and is encouraging them into greater acts of humiliation (via pictures) for the crime of unpopular speech. All because a girl was "offended".

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire.

ICanProveThat · 2013-12-17T13:47:51+00:00

It's probably legal. They might possibly be talked to by the principal about probably not doing it again. I love this sub, and I'm all for men's rights, but I mean, we still shouldn't say stupid things to and about women. Same way around, women shouldn't say stupid things to and about men, however apparently it is perfectly acceptable for them to do so.

2013-12-17T21:59:15+00:00

Child abuse. If this was my kid the teacher would regret its actions. As for offending a girl, just about anything does that these days.

2013-12-18T00:02:38+00:00

As a teacher, if I were to do this to a student my principal would chew me out for it, and rightfully so. Public shaming is not a proper method of discipline.

Ding_batman · 2013-12-18T00:14:30+00:00

As a teacher I would never do something like this. While legal (in Australia), it is certainly unprofessional and quite likely, and rightly, there would be an investigation by the school and an apology issued by the teacher. As I work in a private school, I could quite possibly lose my job over it. It would depend how far the parents take it.

Ivan_Fackoff · 2013-12-17T14:22:28+00:00

He is not obligated to sit there. Teacher is there to teach. She has no power over students.

lenspirate · 2013-12-17T17:46:44+00:00

Perhaps, lighten up /r/MensRights ?

Over-reaction to every, little thing, is tiring...

Title	Is it legal for a teacher to do this?
Author	vga_port
Upvotes	107
Comments	95
Date	December 17, 2013 8:10 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1t2s6l/is_it_legal_for_a_teacher_to_do_this/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-it-legal-for-a-teacher-to-do-this.1155952 https://theredarchive.com/post/1155952

Comments