Why Engagement Rings Are a Scam

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February 22, 2014
38 upvotes

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Title Why Engagement Rings Are a Scam
Author Casanova-Quinn
Upvotes 38
Comments 49
Date 22 February 2014 12:26 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/11666
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1yl0f6/why_engagement_rings_are_a_scam/
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[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire253 points54 points  (18 children) | Copy

Diamonds have no resale value. There is no scarcity of them either. The DeBeers cartel controls the prices, and inflates the "value" with advertising.

Here's a tip, get "Blood Diamond" on DVD, watch it with her, and act completely horrified, then vow never to buy a diamond again. Opt for a gold band; at least it an be melted down or sold in a financial emergency. If she whines, bring up "Blood Diamond" in an extremely self-righteous, morally indignant tone.

[–]RedPillsHere9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

There are places that don't sell 'Blood Diamonds' so with this argument she could just tell you to buy her one of those instead.

Other than that yeah, do not buy a diamond ring.

[–]vozkhan22 points23 points  (1 child) | Copy

A hamster that desperately wants something is like a group of stoners trying to make a bong: resourceful.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I lol'd too hard at that.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hmmm . . . and those could be more expensive . . . but then you could just say that it's a scam to gull people into buying Blood Diamonds. It's not like you can know for sure. Best be on the safe side. Have some costume jewelry instead.

[–]Good2Go52804 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I told my girl that some poor little African kid got his hands chopped off with an improvised weapon for taking a bathroom break while mining the diamond for her engagement ring.

Her response: "Good!"

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire21 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Looks like she's showing her true colors.

"Blood Diamond" technique won't work because you already bought it for her. You're asking her to part with something she has become emotionally attached to. We all know how women like to form emotional attachments to baubles with absolutely no use value.

Of course, now you can be like, "Wow, I never realized you were so heartless and lacking in compassion . . . . maybe I should find someone else . . . ."

[–]Good2Go52800 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She was joking. We have that kind of relationship. Of course she doesn't want some poor kid to be maimed for her rock. If she wants a diamond, I'll buy it for her. She's out of her fucking mind if she thinks I'm spending two months salary. I'm gonna get a screaming deal off craigslist and she's gonna think I bought it from Tom Shane.

[–] points points | Copy

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[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

I would rather get one of these

[–]autowikibot3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Puzzle ring:


A traditional puzzle ring is a type of ring made up of four, six, eight, or twelve interconnected rings. Contemporary designs include rings of three, five or seven bands. Reassembly is a form of mechanical puzzle. Many are Italian or English from the Renaissance period, although they are becoming more common in North America.

They were developed from gimmal rings, which derive their name from the Latin gemelli, meaning "twins." Gimmal rings were used as wedding rings, because if the wearer took off the ring in order to cheat on his or her spouse, they would then be unable to put it together again in time to avoid discovery.

They are also sometimes called Turkish Wedding Rings or Harem Rings.

Image i - This is a completed puzzle ring with six bands.


Interesting: Kate Forsyth | Baguenaudier | Puzzle Pirates | Gimmal ring

Parent commenter can delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words | flag a glitch

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Actually that is not a bad idea. I wonder how long it takes to reassemble one of these.

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[–]mo_dingo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you buy the diamond right, you can end up significantly under retail pricing, but as I posted earlier, you need to know how to determine fakes from real, natural diamonds, as well as how to grade them on cut/clarity/color and have a scale to weigh them in carats.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Now you're getting smart! Brilliant idea!

On second thought, I suspect that the resale value is something that cartel gets to take advantage of, but not the retail consumer . . . .

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Loose-Diamonds-Gemstones-/491/i.html

Notice how all the diamonds are bid up near $1,000? The cartel probably has agents who do that just to keep the prices up near retail price of jewelry items.

[–]Kloohorn-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're using logic, you're assuming they will respond to it.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire29 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Blood Diamond" would be an appeal to emotion, sentiment, morality, with logic being a distant fourth.

Another example would be, "Honey, will you buy me a fur coat?"

Me: "A fur coat? That's barbaric, you should be ashamed! Think of the poor animals they torture to death! Here, wear this practical fleece instead."

Edit: The idea is to use their own tactics on them.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (2 children) | Copy

The one I got my ex wife. She saw it at an estate sale and loved it so much she had to show it to me. (Hint hint) I wasn't sure I wanted to get married at all but I got it because the deal was just too good to pass up.

So like any beta asshole I eventually propose and she loves it. Years later she gives me shit about the cheap ring I proposed to her with.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Such ungratefulness. Tell her you're going to sell it since she doesn't like it. Then buy an Xbox with the funds.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Every woman's SMV will equal a diamond one day!

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[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

QFT. The government, the wedding-industrial complex, the honeymoon, and the divorce lawyers.

[–]korzybski5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. I see modern-day "marriage" as a wholly-unnecessary contract between you, her, and the state.

[–]UnamusedPunk13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

De Beers actually controls around 50% of the diamond market compared to 90% that they did in the late 80s

http://www.kitco.com/ind/Zimnisky/2013-06-06-A-Diamond-Market-No-Longer-Controlled-By-De-Beers.html

Diamonds aren't "worthless" and engagement rings are HARDLY their only purpose.

I'm not telling you to go out and buy an engadgment ring but thats because the act of getting married is the bigger rip off, not the diamond it's self. Also, if I had to bet, most of the divorced men in this sub would rather pay 10x what their original engagement ring cost then what divorce has cost them.

[–]abcd_z9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Diamonds aren't "worthless" and engagement rings are HARDLY their only purpose.

Diamonds are useful for cutting, drilling, and membranes used in lasers, x-ray machines and vacuum chambers. All of those uses put together can't equal a fraction of the demand for wedding and engagement rings.

You're right: technically, diamonds aren't worthless.

They're just worth far, far less than cultural programming would have you think.

[–]bama79rolltide0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We use diamond edged blades on our grinders at work. They last a good amount of time.

https://kimballmidwest.com/Catalog/CatalogIndex.aspx?p=4776

[–]a_chill_bro4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is like a matrix within a matrix.

[–]Endorsed Contributorzyk0s1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Proposing in of itself is, in the current cultural reality, completely idiotic and meaningless.

Back when you had to promise before God and half your village that you would protect and provide for (if you were a guy) or respect and obey (if you were a girl) the person standing next to you, a proposal made sense. The guy was basically telling her "I have found the balls to put myself in this vulnerable position towards you because you are very pretty and I want to pound you incessantly until your body swells. But once you say yes, you will be completely dependent on me, so it has to be your decision. If I demonstrated to you that I am a man worth following and that I will care and provide for you until your death, then say yes."

Under those circumstances, it makes sense for the guy to ask, he had chosen the (potential) target of his provision and he was going to get the sex he wanted from a visibly pretty woman. His gain was immediately visible. Hers was a a bit less obvious, and she needed something to go on, hence why the man would court her, take her on dates and give her gifts, to make his provisioning potential and the kind of life she should be expecting visible to her. And then, the diamond ring even made sense, it was the symbol of a very strong ability to provide.

But now, when you've already been sleeping with the girl for months, why in hell would you get down on one knee and propose? Not for the sex, she's already given it to you. Not for the promise of obedience, the feminists made sure that was superfluous. However, the guy's provisioning is still expected, so proposing today really means "please, take me as your financial slave, so I can make sure we keep fucking".

I doubt there are many people here who would not understand that, but for the newcomers: unless the girl is still very young and a virgin, and traditional enough that you have good reason to believe she will take a submissive stance in the marriage, DO NOT PROPOSE. If your girlfriend of a few years wants to get married, let her know she has to do the asking (she will anyway) and that you refuse to submit to this on-one-knee-with-a-ring charade. If she wants to get married, she should tell you "I think we should get married", which you should answer with "here are my conditions". That is, if you already decided against the overwhelming warnings and want to take your chances at this gamble.

[–]widec2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

From the video "even knowing all that, doesn't get you out of an engagement ring"

Makes me kind of think, since the resale value is so shit, if I'm ever put in a position of buying a ring why not buy a used one? You can get a nice one for the cost of a cheap one, and no one will know any better except for yourself. If something has no real value then I might as well pinch pennies, hypothetically of course.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

how much cheaper is a used one?

[–]Good2Go52801 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Check out Craigslist.

[–]widec0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are selling for 1/4-1/3 of their original value. Maybe someone older here has a better idea.

[–]jcrpta0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Got one for my own wife secondhand, I think it was about £450. The original sales receipt shows it sold for about £1,000.

The hilarious thing? The diamond itself originally had a ten year guarantee. Hardest substance known to man, and apparently the jeweller didn't rate the chances of it lasting more than ten years.

[–]azrap11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It might be hard but it's not resistant to chemical attacks like gold is.

Shit, you can literally burn diamonds and people think they last forever. Fucking non-metals are plebeian materials for showing affection.

[–]randomkloud1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

get a gold ring. that shit's actually scarce.

[–]Cats_of_War0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Even more so they are a relic of a aged past.

See in the past women would commit to the best provider since life sucked. The engagement was kinda like a deposit for taking her off the market.

[–]MartialWay1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

False. It's a recently manufactured "fake" tradition invented by DeBeers marketers. The Rabbit Hole runs deep....

[–]Cats_of_War-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Recent is relative. If by recent you mean 100+ plus years you could argue that in earths history or recorded human history that it is recent. It sure isn't recent to most editors and my earlier point stands.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

A good amount of TRP focuses on the fact that recent, culturally-acceptable behaviors run counter to the evolutionary factors that formed humans over hundreds of thousands of years; 100+ years is recent.

[–]Cats_of_War0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That doesnt change my comment though.

My point was engagement rings, and such, were a form of insurance for women for being taken off the market, and/or becoming damaged goods. 100% they are irrelevant today, but they were around way before Debeers. Diamonds on a ring just gave the rings more value, thus more insurance.

In this day and age they are unnecessary unless people live in some ass backwards country where being engaged or married will ruin a women's prospects if it fails.

Then again marriage is pretty outdated in itself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My post on this from /r/videos

"invented by the DeBeirs diamond corporation".

ERRRR WRONG this was invented more than a decade BEFORE the famous ad campaign and came into vogue 4-5 years before the ad campaign.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/the-strange-and-formerly-sexist-economics-of-engagement-rings/255434/

But in the 1930s, states began striking down the "Breach of Promise to Marry" law. By 1945, 16 states representing nearly half of the nation's population had made Breach of Promise a historical relic. At the same time, the diamond engagement ring began its transformation from decorative to de rigueur. Legal scholar Margaret Brinig doesn't think that's a coincidence, and she has the math to prove it. Regressing the percent of people living in states without Breach of Promise against a handful of other variables -- including advertising, per capita income and the price of diamonds -- Brinig found that this legal change was actually the most significant factor in the rise of the diamond engagement ring. It's historically plausible. The initial mini-surge in diamond imports came in 1935, four years before DeBeers launched its celebrated advertising campaign. What's going on here?

[–]Dexter770 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women are becoming the breadwinners. I don't mind getting them a diamond ring if I get a motorcycle in return.

[–]mo_dingo0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I'd like to do some further discussion on "diamonds have no resale value" BS from someone who is in the industry.

Any good that has a high demand but small supply will command a high price, relatively speaking. The value of diamonds is what we give it, through it's use & perception. Whether it be for cutting saws/blades or larger stones with less occlusions/yellow hue & proper proportions (cut), they do have value and they certainly have re-sale value.

However, if you go to the mall and by an engagement ring, you are going to greatly overpay for the good. Malls are high traffic locations, and as such, command high rents for the businesses. My father paid 10k/month for his mall store in the 1980's; now expect to pay $40-100k.

Because of this, retail outlets in stores must over-charge their customers in order to make a profit. If you go to a store in the mall, and ask to see a catalog of some of the jewelry that they can special order, the prices will be listed, but at the lower corner of the page, you will see a small image of 3 old-fashioned keys. This refers to keystone pricing, or "triple-key" pricing, which means that the wholesale price of the item is 1/3 of the listed price.

The mall stores & other retail spots are like the Circle K of jewelry. Insane markup for the convenience and service they provide. Costco has really made a dent in the jewelry world (as well as many others, they are not the top seller of wine in the country) and has lead to the demise of many jewelry stores. Why pay 3x wholesale when you can get it for 20% over wholesale?

So, if you buy from a retail outlet and try to sell to a pawn shop, yes, you will get hosed. The pawn shop must make a profit and they will likely sell it at wholesale pricing just to get rid of it, which means you will lose a lot of money. Other jewelers may wish to keep your diamond and try to sell it, but again, they will not pay retail just to sell at retail, they are taking a financial risk and will pay under wholesale, the margin under determined by the market/diamond/mount/etc.

Unless you are in the industry, you will never get wholesale pricing. Costco is a great choice if you must buy a diamond, it's as cheap as retail comes but don't expect to get your money out of it 100%.

The best you can do is buy from an individual who is looking to cash out because they are desperate and hope you will pay more than a pawn shop. This can be tricky because you need to be able to tell the difference between a real diamond, synthetic, fake diamonds and CZs (cubic zirconia).

Which leads to the final point. You buy from a retail shop because you don't want to risk getting scammed in a private deal. It's more convenient and certainly has more prestige than someone from craigslist. Just like a car, you cannot take it back to the dealer in 6 months and get what you paid. They will take the car to auction and get what they can for it, so they will price accordingly.

Sidenote: Firearms are one good that can be easily bought used and maintain or gain value in time. I purchased a FiveSeven Mk1 pistol about 2 years ago for $600 and I know I could sell it for $1k all day long. You have to buy it right and know what you have.

[–]KJL130 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The price that five sevens are right now is retarded but good buy dude. Just don't expect your glock 19 to go up in value.

[–]mo_dingo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Close, I have a G20 :)

But that is correct. I paid $500 for my Glock and I know I could probably never get anyone to pay that much for a used 3rd gen 10mm Glock.

[–]1Zackcid0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

ARRRGGHHHH!!

That video was so eloquently and beautifully done. :)

[–]ilovemyself1010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hmm interesting, I think I shall do an experiment.

2 girl flatmates, bring up engagements, then too diamonds and how I watched blood diamond and would never support such a violent act indirectly.

???

Result!

[–]zetaspawn-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Spent like 300 bucks on a ring that has her birth stone in it, which also happens to be my birth stone as well, used the extra money to buy us a ps3 and a wii U. We are very happy with our purchases and she has the most unique ring at her work since it's a green stone and not a diamond.



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