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Ridicule as police say kissing under the mistletoe without consent is 'rape'

rbrockway

December 5, 2017

150 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Title	Ridicule as police say kissing under the mistletoe without consent is 'rape'
Author	rbrockway
Upvotes	150
Comments	49
Date	December 5, 2017 11:40 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7hp503/ridicule_as_police_say_kissing_under_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/ridicule-as-police-say-kissing-under-the-mistletoe.1173802 https://theredarchive.com/post/1173802

Comments

[–]Daddie032 points 8 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]BlindGardener 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lethn 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jeff4116 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlockNotDo 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]M60P 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]pickleman_22 43 points44 points45 points 8 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]v574v 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 23 points24 points25 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]GranaT0 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlindGardener 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GranaT0 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dembara 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]AcidJiles 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Dembara 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ted8367 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AcidJiles 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

knowing they’re ok with it

Do you expect full verbal consent for every minor action with every sexual partner or even non sexual partner (eg a gran kissing you or a friend giving you a peck on the cheek)?

Context is key, if someone is on their own under the mistletoe and someone just walks up and kisses them fully without any communication etc sure sexual assault but two nervous people under the mistletoe engaged in a low level of conversation and there seems to be a moment and one or the other kisses the other one are we really making this sort of interaction sexual assault if one has misunderstood the sign from the other? I mean if they continue after being rejected sure but sexual actions can be unwanted but not sexual assault.

I grab the breast of my date in public without permission, sexual assault, I touch it while we are snogging as that seems to be the next unspoken step and she moves my hand away, no problem. If I then continue without more explicit permission at that stage then yes it would be sexual assault. Many human sexual interactions are done through feelings of the moment without explicit consent beyond the bodies reaction, to cheapen that natural human interaction to sexual assault by needing everything to signed in triplicate at every stage of an encounter is frankly horrible. Especially when there is no bad intent which is a requirement of a crime.

[–]InBaggingArea 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AcidJiles 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]InBaggingArea 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PapaLoMein -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Johndoe2099 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]PapaLoMein 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Johndoe2099 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"No means no" seems like a perfectly sensible baseline for a civilized society to respect and enforce. Men AND women should be expected to act like adults and take responsibility for making their boundaries clear. If that's too hard for women then let's stop pretending there can ever be equality between the sexes. Bring back chaperones, curfews and no sex without a contract. Society before the sexual revolution was structured to protect women from predatory men. That protection went hand-in-hand with the curtailment of women and men's personal freedom. When feminists demanded society allow women greater sexual freedom, society said 'no, it's too dangerous', feminists said 'we'll risk it'. So women got greater agency. But men were still expected to make the first move in the vast majority of sexual relationships. That's how we ended up in this mess.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

It's really not quite that simple, though, is it?

How many unwanted kisses end up in a complaint being filed with the police, out of all of them that occur, do you think? Just in my life alone I've been kissed by total random strangers about five times, and I've been kissed by girls making moves on me that I wasn't interested in probably double that amount. I didn't file charges on a single woman.

And vice versa. I think back and there were definitely girls whose body language said that they were possibly going along for the ride, but weren't really interested. Could that be interpreted, post hoc, as lack of consent?

When the overwhelming majority of these events go without charges, and are handled socially, then we should really be looking at that definition and narrowing it down to fit public activity more firmly.

[–]AcidJiles 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link