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Harvard Study Destroys the Gender Pay Gap Myth: Men Just Work Longer Hours

EqualMeansEqual

December 12, 2018
1921 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.pluralist.com/posts/2135-harvard-study-destroys-the-gender-pay-gap-myth-men-just-work-longer-hours
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Post Information
Title Harvard Study Destroys the Gender Pay Gap Myth: Men Just Work Longer Hours
Author

EqualMeansEqual

Upvotes 1921
Comments 78
Date December 12, 2018 1:51 AM UTC
(7 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/a5dj4d/harvard_study_destroys_the_gender_pay_gap_myth/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/harvard-study-destroys-the-gender-pay-gap-myth-men.1183303
https://theredarchive.com/post/1183303
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Comments

[–]lipchuck408 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

Link is a nuke to your mobile device! Consider yourself warned.

Here is the link to the actual paper.

[–]EdAnt66 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

This should be the top comment.

[–]randomhumour68 points 7 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

This is the top comment

[–][deleted] 7 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Infernoval 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The top comment, it is.

[–][deleted] 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The top, is it comment?

[–][deleted] 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is there a place to archive and catalog these scholarly articles, valid studies, etc? I recently had to provide a bunch of solid evidence/valid studies discussing how the wage gap and earnings gap are not the same, and how the wage gap is not only a myth, but one that is harmful to everyone including women. Enough digging led me enough sources to properly debate, but it would be nice to have a repository of this information easily and quickly accessible

[–]Tangokat 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The headline is extremely misleading. The study was only done on train and bus operators. It doesn't "destroy" anything. Be critical of your sources.

[–]Terminal-Psychosis 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It is another of many actually scientific studies that completely debunks the belief-based cultists' idea of "wage gap".

"Studies" courses trot their old lies out on stage again and again, with zero factual backup. Ever study debunking their bull is a good thing.

[–]Tangokat -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feel free to provide "many actually scientific studies that completely debunks the belief-based cultists' idea of "wage gap" then. And since you wrote scientific studies I assume you mean actually peer-reviewed research.

A quick Google search (and I admit I don't really care enough about this subject to do more than that) reveals this meta study [1] by Bishu and Alkadry of 98 peer-reviwed journal articles and they disagree with you.

[1] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0095399716636928

[–]WhellEndowed 176 points177 points178 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So the pay gap is mostly based on choice? Makes sense.

[–]FinFihlman 54 points55 points56 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The pay gap as a term is also extremely misleading. It means "take all the earnings of men over some time period and divide by how many men there are and compare it to all the earnings of women over the same period divided by how many women there are" and the period is usually set at a month or a week.

The pay gap as a term does not relate to average earnings over an hour, which is what the term indicates to any reasonable person reading and should indicate as a term. It literally tries to shame people working more.

[–]Mzsickness 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Society forces women to make these choices since we live in a patriarchal society dictated by men. Since men oppress women and force them to do these things--we need more equality! Women need to get their voice and fight the system that forces them to work equal work and hours for equal pay.

Oh.. Wait.. Nvm... Sorry, my head was just shoved up my ass, please excuse me.

[–]orangeLILpumpkin 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And feminists will argue two things:

  1. "Well the pay gap still exists! Men still earn more than women and that's a problem!" In other words, they'll just move the goal posts.

  2. "We need to understand why women make the choices they do that result in women earning less money". Of course, the reason is that they don't need to work for money to the same extent men need to work for money, because women (and society) are fine with being financially supported by someone else's labor.

[–]Asphyxiem 110 points111 points112 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The surprise! They will still find anecdotal incidents and make it the main narrative agenda.

[–][deleted] 79 points80 points81 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I tried to discuss this on the economics subs and alluded to Jordan Peterson’s bullet points. My comments were removed by the mods.

[–]MasterDex 82 points83 points84 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Peterson must be one of the most frustrated people alive right now. Every time he says something, it's taken up wrong purposefully by the far-left.

[–]willbeonekenobi 19 points20 points21 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow! Men work longer hours (on average) and therefore get paid more because of it, who would've thought the opposite?

[–]chambertlo 50 points51 points52 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Feminism doesn’t care about facts, logic and reason, though. LMAO. They’ll just find something else to complain about. It’s just how feminists are.

[–]Moonvie 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Else? Why? The wage gap exists because they say so. They'll keep complaining about it and you'll still see politicians fishing votes with it.

[–][deleted] 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If the wage gap were truth, the entire workforce would be female. All men would be forced to be stay at home dads.

[–]Thomjones 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ironically, I found a feminist article talking about the wage gap being a myth long before this study. I think theirs was saying women settle for less money when negotiating salary than a man does despite both being offered a similar initial amount. Then there's types of jobs chosen, hours worked, and bc women tend to have more schedule restrictions. Oh and bc many studies are flawed and group occupations together that may be similar but have vastly different pay.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah you can't argue with Pigeon while playing Chess not to shit on the Chessboard.

[–]AsianThunder 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“Bc SoCiAl PrEsSuReS uS tO nUrTuRe”

[–]TheStumblingWolf 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry This site is not supported in your location

[–]CadoAngelus 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Same. Is there a mirror?

Edit: ignore this go to u/lipchuck's comment up top, here

[–]Funcuz 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, I guess Harvard is a sexist, misogynistic institution run by dinosaurs who can't deal with women getting equality. Clearly it's run by old white men and they pay to influence policy such that they want to promote men putting women back in the kitchen, chained to a stove and barefoot while making sandwiches.

Don't you worry, that's exactly what you'll hear from the usual suspects.

[–]Rogdozz 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s funny because that kind of shit usually gets pulled by right-wingers. Have you never heard people say scientific Institutions can’t be trusted because they’re all extremely left-wing?

[–]Datruyugo 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You remind me of flat earthers that say every NASA photo is photoshopped.

[–]raoulk 12 points13 points14 points 7 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Harvard Study Destroys the Gender Pay Gap Myth

What a dishonest title. It is only for one area of occupation and does not deal with all occupations.

Edit: Not saying the Gender Wage gap does exist, but a study of one area of occupation is not a complete refutation.

[–]Sidial_Peroxho 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

And you're totally right. But even if you did the same studies for all jobs in the labor market. I think you would find that mainstream feminists (especially "intersectional" feminists) will just don't care.

[–]raoulk 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

That's a little beside the point. The point of such an article is not to attempt to turn people that are very resistant to change in opinion. Nor is it good for preaching to the choir, as it'd be unnecessary and may lead to stronger confirmation bias.

However it is useful in making arguments to convince people in the middle - that can be swayed by good arguments.

[–]Sidial_Peroxho 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Also true. And that makes me really think that sexism is a problem that will never get solved anytime soon, especially when the only people willing to challenge their views, are moderate people.

[–]raoulk 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you're right. Societal change takes time and rarely is completely replaces past culture over the course of 1 generation. I think people are too eager for change to occur, even as it's changing at a rapid pace.

Same as with any phenomenon that occurs very gradually - we don't notice it until we compare with how something was a long time ago. Humans are incredibly bad at seeing gradual change without "assistance".

[–]Terminal-Psychosis 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is more good, solid proof though.

Every example is good. The lie of "wage gap" needs to be buried.

[–]dredawg1 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They should do a counter study of a workplace that does not allow overtime, like a government office. I'd be willing to bet that in that environment, there would be very little to no pay gap.

[–]jostler57 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Your link is cancer on mobile. It forces a video to open, and upon hitting the X it opens again, ad infinitum.

Please post a decent link directly to the study, and or copy/paste the page’s info.

Downvote until then.

[–]Acoustag 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Did you read the top comment? Would've saved you some time.

[–]jostler57 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wasn’t the top comment when I posted, and I must’ve missed that one when I looked.

[–]fuzznugget20 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Add infinitum

[–]jostler57 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

That’s not how Latin works.

[–]fuzznugget20 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I know, but it is a pun sorry for offending you

[–]jostler57 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some puns and sarcasm are hard to hear via text - didn’t get that it wasn’t an attempt at a spelling correction.

[–]BlueZir 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Nice study. Can we drop the childish tabloid titles though? cUcKs dOmInAtEd by HaRvArD.

[–]FeierInMeinHose 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Harvard researchers anally rape feminazis with science and facts

[–]PeruvianRug 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Please!

It's like putting plastic spinning rims on a Ferrari. Just let the damned Ferrari speak for itself.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TLDR - A work hour for a woman is 3/4 the time of a work hour for man

[–]BotDaBot13 points 7 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

The study was made in a highly unionized state-owned company. These type of companies are rare, so dont take it as a full debunk, just as an explanation.

[–]PanderjitSingh_k 29 points30 points31 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That’s the point isn’t it? The union controls many potentially intervening variables and there’s still an earnings gap (due to women working less hard).

[+]underscoresoap -12 points-11 points-10 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No. Due to women (rightly) prioritising their children. Let’s not make sane non feminazi women suffer from both sides of the argument.

[–]mastermikeyboy 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I see that as the reason they work less.

[–]underscoresoap 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Childcare is extremely expensive. In most instances the family has more money overall when a partner chooses a more flexible career paths (i.e the choices mentioned) it’s not a case of women being lazy or working less hard it’s a case of women being more accommodating of childcare which isn’t something we should be shaming them for despite how frustrating arguing the wage gap myth is.

[–]mastermikeyboy 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I 100% understand. Me and my wife are in that position. 28 & 25 respectively. We have 3 kids now, I have a well paying job and a seemingly good career. She had a high-school diploma and periodic jobs. Daycare costs more than her schooling would! But when we met I was in college with co-op and a job offer. So we decided that it made more sense for us for her to stay home and me to go to work. This choice, that we made together put us where we are now.

When she joins the workforce on a career path she shouldn't be paid the same as the guy/girl her age that's been with the company for 5yrs already and has the experience and maybe promotion. Unless it's just a stagnated job.

She's not lazy, but choices were made. Those choices have consequences.

Edit: my wife did point out that shaming is common and that yes, woman are more likely to be shamed. Mostly by other woman in her experience. Not okay.

[–]underscoresoap 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That’s exactly my point. Personally I think kids being raised by their parents is better for society as a whole. As frustrating as the wage gap myth is saying women earn less because they’re lazy or don’t work as hard is bullshit and harms everyone. Many women work full time while working in such a way that doesn’t lend itself to climbing the ladder. The Harvard article mentioned women being reluctant to take short notice overtime etc, this is normally due to childcare commitments.

The real issue presented by the disparity of earnings is the stigma that men such as yourself would face for choosing children over career instead of your partner doing it. (Not a dig at you personally, more a dig at societal norms)

[–]mastermikeyboy 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That I certainly agree with.

[–]MGTOWtoday 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In other words women earn less than men because women are lazier than men.

[–]tableender 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women between the age of 18 and 30 that have never married and never had children and work in a metropolitan area earn, on average, 8% more than men in the same demographic.

Is that down to sexism?

[–]Duthos 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is our role to work without complaint until we die.

[–]hkl8324 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women: oh you need longer hours so that we are more effective, we should be paid more.

[–]moppalady 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can't read this in the UK could anyone summarise?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I didn't actually read it because I have a final today but why is the title "Evidence from Bus and Train Operators" is the entire thing just based on those two occupations?

[–]343WheatleySpark 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, but that's good as the focus. Because of the highly unionized environment, the union removes many other possible equality factors, and the "gap" still existed.

[–]DisposableMAYBE 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.iwf.org/blog/2808195/Harvard-Researchers-Find-Women's-Choices-Key-in-Gender-Wage-Gap

Here is an article on the same from Independent Women's Forum

[–]Qwarked 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is this the same one that only looked at one company?

[–]Ballboy2015 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Implying that women are overpaid?

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nobody is going to care about that study.

[–]jaheiner 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's crazy, it's almost as if making decisions have consequences.

[–]further_needing 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I could tell you that myself.

I'm teaching a class next semester covering three very high - demand and well - paying computer certs (better pay and job availability by themselves than most college degrees) with an average cert exam first take pass rate of over 90%

Just got my "official" class roster for the semester:

29 students

22 unequivocally male names 4 female names 3 ambiguous names

[–]AleHaRotK 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not only men work longer hours but men just work better paying jobs.

There isn't even any need to make a study about this, you can see it yourself...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Imagine how many grants, organization, people and politics that's been created to fight the "sexism" that's been causing the paygap many of us have known to be bullshit all along.

And how many men have been labeled sexist simply because a lot of women would never look at the numbers.

The last 40 years of feminism have hailed the pay gap as their reason of existence. What a waste of time.

[–]JuicyPro 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Females wont listen.

[+][deleted] -31 points-30 points-29 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is sexist.

[–]Bascome 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Everything is sexist . . .

[–]DaBezt317 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Facts aren’t sexist

[–]2JMAN89 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But they are partisan...

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