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[–]Some-Sandwich8887 23 points24 points25 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Read “no more mr nice guy” by Glover. It explains your problem and offers good strategy.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
That book solves the Nice Guy problem, but it doesn’t look like OP has that problem. Nice Guy is when someone is nice only to expect/pretend something back, and they get mad and blame others when they don’t get what they want.
Something like: “I’ve been nice with you, therefore you owe me something back”.
[+]Some-Sandwich8887 -6 points-5 points-4 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
This is called “hidden agreement” and this is concept is covered in the book. I assume OP acts nice because he expects something in return (if towards women - then obviously sex as this is the highest level of recognition deemed possible by nice guys). Though he states he doesn’t expect anything I still suspect that secretly he does.
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’ll be short, I hope my points can help a bit:
don’t suddenly put all your nice cards on the table. As the other commenter already said, niceness doesn’t build attraction in the short term, but you can surely show that it’s a conscious act from you
if someone says you’re too nice, sometimes she’s telling you just a fact, other times they’re just overwhelmed because they aren’t used to it or they aren’t ready yet to receive all that kindness out of the blue
you can calibrate/compensate your niceness toward them by showing them you’re also confident and able to lead. Sometimes people misinterprets being nice as a form of weakness while in reality you’re being nice because you can “afford that” ;-)
[–]nomadiclives 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
We’ll just have to take your word on the fact that you are a genuinely nice, kind, helpful person that likes to look out for other people. In this case, I think you don’t have to really worry or change anything. Women in particular are great at smelling BS and they can almost always tell when a dude is being nice just to get into their pants. If the women you are interested in are telling you you are too nice - take that as a compliment. They are not using this to not be with you. A lot of women actually want to be with a person who is genuinely nice and kind.
On the other hand, know that “niceness” in itself rarely builds attraction. At least not right away. Genuine kindness is endearing but it’s a personality trait that binds people to you in the long term. Maybe there are other aspects of your personality that need work to build attraction with the kind of women you want to be with.
In any case, don’t worry - if your heart is in the right place and you are doing this without deceit, you will eventually likely find a person whose values align with yours.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But according to OPs words, it isn’t the case of hidden agreement.
You can be nice AND explicit about your feelings and intentions AND confident in delivering them unapologetically.
I’m usually warm and nice with the people of my choice, and I’m not afraid to communicate my intentions, I’ve never been disappointed.
At the same time, I can be really cold with many other people for whatever reason.
And the fact that I clearly sub-communicate that I genuinely don’t give a fuck about what other people might think about what I say or do, comes as a real sign that I’m honest.
That’s also why so many women fell in love for me pretty easily, because I set a clear standard way above other men: they see me like a dream.
And to be clear: I don’t pay anything for them, I don’t open doors, I don’t ask for consent, or shit like that. I just lead the interaction while letting them know that they have my attention (which is also rare).
[–]r3d_ti3_guy 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
The biggest improvement I made in this area was to listen instead of act. What does that mean? Her- oh no, my tire is flat. Me- I’ll fix that!
Instead, do this: Her- oh no, my tire is flat. Me- Shucks. Better get a tow truck and tire replaced.
The difference is i showed empathy and I offered a solution without being the solution.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Her- oh no, my tire is flat. Me- I’ll fix that!
But this is what I'd do for anyone. I don't understand holding back when in a position to help.
I'm trying to show my potential as a partner. Wouldn't "better get a tow truck" be the asshole thing to do?
[–]r3d_ti3_guy 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The issue is her feeling perceived not actionp. I used a worst case scenario, certainly here you would want to intervene. For items of lesser importance, defer to the example. Think of it as the 70/30 rule.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Either way, if I'm in aposition to help, I'm going to help. The whole don't be too available thing people say is bs to me. It's all a damn game.
[–]Aliebaba99 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
But what if you say you'll help her even though you had plans with friends for example.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That it depends on what help is needed and what the plans with friends are. Every situation is different. This is true for even my friends and family. If there is something I can do to help I'm going to try (within reason).
[–]Calridian 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah context matters, if I'm with a girl and she gets a flat tire of course I'm gonna fucking fix it. Probably not the same deal if I'm not with or near her.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
True. I'm not driving 50 miles to help change a tire. If it takes an hour out of my day to help, I'm fine with that. I'd also do that for friends or family.
I did drive 90 minutes to pick up my ex when her car terminally broke down on the side of a highway. But that was a well established relationship.
[–]Calridian 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, honestly some of the comments in here seem overly 'be a dick' being a dick isn't cool and won't get you anywhere lmao.
[–]teaofearlgrey 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it would be better to ask if she wants your help. Like you could phrase it casually; "oh shoot that sucks. I'm able to fix that if you want?" That way if she wants your help she can say yes, but if she doesn't she can say, "thanks so much but I called a tow truck already", or whatever she might respond with.
Offering help is a bit more casual than just being like, "I'm already on my way!" but it still shows you're dependable and there if she chooses to ask you for something.
[–]Agreable_Actuator84 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
No more mr nice guy as recommend is a great self help book. May also read ‘when I say no I feel guilty’ and ‘the manipulated man’. Maybe ‘way of superior man’ and book of pook. Take only what is useful, discard the rest.
Also start barbell training and maybe join a gym where you can do heavy bag work. Learning to move your body against resistance trains you mentally as well as physically.
[–]shortyput 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Are these in book stores like Barnes and noble?
[–]Agreable_Actuator84 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes. More luck with Amazon than b&n. Also Purchase book called starting strength or the barbell prescription.
[–]Heroic_bean 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
As a woman who was with a guy who was like this Ehk it realy taught me to not do that myself tbh.
[–]NoOutlandishness9892 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Elaborate
[–]Heroic_bean 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Like just unsure of himself and people Pleasey...he also never knew what to say.. As a bi sexual woman it was goodfor my studies on what NOT to do with women 🧐
[–]NoOutlandishness9892 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I got you. Yeah the dominant/assertiveness isn’t in a lot of men today.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
dominance and assertiveness/confidence are two differrent things.
I've seen so many fake dominant people out there that I lost the count.
[–]NoOutlandishness9892 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I was learning to the assertiveness side. To be confident first you need to first be high value.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
high value is always a vague term because is subjective and/or relative to a specific context, if any.
confidence is when you feel comfortable whatever you do or say.
assertiveness is how you express what you have to say, which usually (but not necessarily) involves confidence.
[–]NoOutlandishness9892 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yeah well I don’t know what your trying to say in regards to my original post. My response to the woman above me was that we live in a world of weak men. Where they don’t have any masculine traits. Not here to get a vocabulary lesson.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
words are important because they have a specific weight and generalizations are just lame. and if you express a concept the wrong way, even the results will be wrong.
for example:
To be confident first you need to first be high value
not true. that's how this generates hundred of posts from frustrated/delusional people out there
we live in a world of weak men. Where they don’t have any masculine traits
same as above. that's a silly generalization which doesn't apply.
"masculine traits" and "be high value" mean nothing, they vary by country, culture, age, media and many other factors.
what you think is masculine and high value can't be generalized into the world male population tout court, especially if you're a male which is still "learning" basic stuff.
[–]NoOutlandishness9892 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If you know you know. If you don’t then maybe your not.
[–]Captain_w00t1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
there's also bad/toxic knowledge and Dunning-Krueger effect for that matter.
[–]NoOutlandishness98921 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Okay
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think you can be nice the way you are, given you’re genuinely confident and unapologetic.
If/when someone tells you’re being so/too nice, you can always reply that that’s the way you are, it’s part of yourself and you do this with everyone because it makes you feel ok.
You can also say you don’t give a fuck how people reacts to you being nice, you decide when and who deserves this trait of you.
All this is valid if you’re truly genuine and coherent with your actions. Sometimes people (especially women in this context) might think you aren’t genuine, but they’ll understand and appreciate that later.
Being nice in that way doesn’t necessarily mean you’re putting them on a pedestal. There’s a very thin line between you being a doormat and being confidently nice and giving attention. The only caveat is that you have to consciously choose who deserves it or not.
yep this, pin this fuck spot on..
[–]Colin9001 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
if you're changing your behavior in any way because of a woman you're being needy
[–]iron_ee 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]yournotyouareyou 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As a woman, I think genuine kindness is one of the most attractive qualities in a man. It is something that absolutely makes me melt. It also makes me have so much more respect for a man, mainly because it actually takes a lot of strength to maintain a kind heart in our society.
I think you should just learn to screen potential romantic partners a little bit more. Maybe go about your usual ways but just observe whether or not your actions are reciprocated. I think that when you meet your likeness, you will find there is a good balance of give and take and you will both support and care for each other.
[–]VanessaChaland -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Please...remain "nice". Don't let a few jerks and some bogus stereotypes convince you that "nice" guys are not preferred over jackasses.
[–]LuvUnconditionally 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This was news to me that men don't like to be called "nice". I have the nice girl syndrome. Don't know how else to be. It for sure stinks at times but why care about what the term is? Try not to go by society's definition of nice. Define it for yourself. Nothing wrong with being confident, caring and NICE? Thats better than most men I run into. Don't feel bad...celebrate yourself everyday!
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]LuvUnconditionally 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
hmmm I hear ya! Or would you like to wait for the one who appreciates you for you? seriously asking to provoke some thoughts within you.
[–]hob814 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If i say i know exactly your problem that would sound like a lie. In my mind there is 2 probablilities both are treatable with therapy, or you can read "no more mr nice guy" it's your choice, you can start with the book first if it works then continue if you dont feel your into this type of nice guy after reading most of the book, then i suggest find a way to seem stronger be it gym, more connection and so on just seem stronger and have alot of people that wants to talk with you.
[–]TTV-DontEvnTrip 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sounds like you have trouble taking leadership, too agreeable, and also maybe too many compliments too soon. I’m not sure if these are true at all it’s pure assumption. But if you don’t take the lead, tell a girl no, and always offer compliments you will be a turn off to most women.
[–]Maria_Ush 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Please don’t change. There is not that many genuine nice guys there.
[–]heroyi 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
IMO:
Nice guy is someone who is a people pleaser. Perceived to be a doormat. Submissive-ish. These are not 'attractive' qualities because they imply you lack the ability to excite them.
Excite?
As in being adventurous whether it is in the bedroom, going to new dinner or drinking spots, trying out new things, the ability to push the boundaries that help facilitate growth, playful/teasing, invoke emotions. Pushing the envelope is something a lot of people look for in a relationship.
Do you see how a doormat would absolutely lack that ability to excite someone? Always saying yes and being unable to say no or push back. You dont want that.
Now a KIND guy is someone who is... well nice (empathetic, caring, gentle) BUT is able to showcase his/her sexual prowess, has opinions and isn't afraid to push back, challenging. An example is being able to show their partner they WANT them, which requires confidence and sexual energy. Nice guy is just a sad simp.
In your case OP, it might just be you are a caring guy who likes to help but hasn't had the chance to show when you can stand firm on something
[–]shipsAreWeird123 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My guess, you're not being physically assertive enough.
People being nice is a bare minimum, but I want the my partner to be showing sexual interest. You do that by breaking physical barriers early and in non threatening ways.
If a guy hasn't touched me at all on a first date, I assume it's not going anywhere. Not because he's not interested, but because it's hard to go from not touching to touching.
[–]Alive-Doughnut2345 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You can be nice but it cannot compensate for a lack of physical and mental strength, masculinity and assertiveness. A man who is physically capable of fucking you up but chooses not to because he is nice and polite is more attractive to girls.
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