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[–]_playswithsquirrels_ 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Read Models. It is exactly what you need I think.
[–]redfeather99 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
After you've read models, take action over at /r/100sets
[–]sorcererbro 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Your challenge is your inner game. Toss those books in your fireplace.
[–]fakenamehere011 points 10 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
care to elaborate? because at this point i have no idea what my problem is.
[–]sorcererbro 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Love is not something you can feel for a girl all on your own. She needs to earn it. Moreover, she has to go first. You can dip your toe in lake love once she's waist-deep.
Before I can continue, I need to know something: does what you call love feel like a pit in your chest? If not, and if yes, please describe it in detail, strictly as a feeling.
[–]fakenamehere011 points 10 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
yes, i feel it like an ache in my chest. i also feel it in the connection we had at a friendship level. i am physically attracted to many girls, but to very few at the level of deep friendship.
i am wondering if that is part of my problem - that the girls i actually like are ones that I find really compelling as friends, and so I overdo the friendship aspect of the relationship and underplay the emotional/romantic element. which sucks though because personality is the #1 thing which attracts me to a girl.
[–]sorcererbro 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There's a lot to be said about friendship/intimate; I'm more interested in the feeling.
The feeling you described isn't a good thing. You could call it the dark side of love.
Another thing I know about it is that the area is vulnerable. It can feel like you got stabbed there if your feelings aren't reciprocated. Pain and tenderness are typical symptoms of a physical wound. That is a wound, too, it's just not physical.
It's what happens when your experience of intimacy is bundled with bad experiences, suffering, frustration, etc. I only know this because I lived it. It's not fun, and you don't really know the difference until you rise above it.
So, good news, bro. Someone made a product addressing exactly this problem. Google "nail your inner game." Employ whatever means you choose to acquire the videos, and follow the practices religiously. They work.
[–]SuperCows 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's clear that you aren't over what happened yet. If you were looking for answers you're not going to find them in those books.
You need to come to terms with your experiences with these women. Perhaps it would comfort you as to know why things things didn't work out the way you wanted them to. Maybe you wanted something different than what they wanted or things were getting too serious too quickly or that they simply weren't interested in you that much at all. Or perhaps instead of trying to figure things out, you'll eventually just set those thoughts aside and just focus on what you have now.
Seduction helps you to understand the dynamics behind attracting others. It might, and I say might, give you the answers you need, but attraction is only a part of why things between 2 people don't work out. Some people simply don't want a relationship until they are sure of themselves, others need some specific quality or trait in their partner, or other life factors like work or stress simply prevent them from considering serious relationships. Needless to say, sometimes, the answer is long, complex, and includes information that you will likely never find.
Either way, I wish you best of luck. It sucks that you feel so down about someone who didn't feel the same way back. Everyone has been through that feeling - trust me. But don't let it drag you down! Like you said, you are funny, charming and attract many women. I can also see that you are a good writer. You have many things to be happy about.
[–]Lead ModeratorThrowawayPUA 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Some guys hit rock bottom and decide they have to make changes.
Some guys hit rock bottom and get out a pick and shovel and start digging even deeper.
[–]MasterOfMySoul 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
There are probably a lot of factors at play here and the only thing you wish you could do (ask her directly what happned) isn't going to work because she probably doesn't have an answer for you either. What you need to do is actually grieve. Go through your process because a quick turnaround of attitude can actually make your feelings worse. If you are like me, you are going to be thinking about this person non stop for a while. She is going to be a part of your mind for a while. The good thing now, is that you're motivated. And my advice to you, is try your best to be at peace with her decision. It is hard; it is emotionally painful and draining. And it feels very unfair and you simultaneously hate and love her at the same time. I know it sucks but you have to let go of any possibility of getting back together. But it's a process and we all go through it at our own pace.
[–]fakenamehere011 points 10 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
All very good advice, thanks. Though the feeling I have now is like I have been hit by a truck full of bad emotions, it's actually better than it has been the past ten days or so, when I knew that something weird was going on, but couldn't tell exactly what. i prefer the finality of my current situation to the confusion of the previous ten days.
And yes, you're right about needing to grieve a bit before making a quick turnaround.
[–]MasterOfMySoul 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yea. I just know what it feels like. Mine was two years ago. And I would be lying if I said I didn't think about her a little. The one you're meant to be with is still out there. Just focus on being your best self possible so that when you do finally cross paths with this person, she can't say no.
[–]Nugulus 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Stop looking at women as angels. They're not. Put yourself on the pedestal you would usually put them on.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Add Models by Mark Manson to that reading list. Also No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover.
You sound pretty needy and overly invested judging by your post, a huge topic that is addressed in depth in the former books mentioned.
[–]fakenamehere011 points 10 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
i will check out both of those, thanks.
and you are totally right about feeling too needy with this one. the frustrating thing is that with 99% of girls I am not this way. It's only when I really like a girl that this comes out, which has only happened twice before... :-/
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, you definitely need to read those books asap. Read them before you read those other PUA books. Like someone else said, you need to work on your inner game and those books address that.
[–]fakenamehere011 points 10 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
ok, i'll buy them both tomorrow.
what about my story made you think of those books? i'll plead ignorance here on not knowing what "inner game" actually means.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
But the girls I really like, the ones I feel an incredibly deep connection with, the ones I start to love, put me into the friend zone.
Well my guess is that once you fall in love, you come off as needy and clingy, possibly a try-hard. Girls hate needy and clingy. It turns them off BIG TIME. You don't come off as needy with the girls you aren't that interested in because there isn't much there for you to lose. But when it comes to a girl you actually care for, you become needy because you cant stand the thought of her leaving you, thus you overcompensate by trying too hard to gain her affection.
The root of this neediness may have arisen from your upbringing and the experiences you've been through in life.
In any case, this is covered in those books.
Inner game just means you liking you for you, REALLY not caring about how other people perceive you, etc. Basically, self-confidence. There's a lot of info on this if you use the search bar.
i DEFINITELY need help with this. even if it isn't affecting the girl's perception of me, it puts ME through hell, which is enough reason to get it under control.
[–]TheMinistryOfAwesome 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The problem is really the amount of value and sentiment you put on your feelings for these girls. So you've hung out with them, you fucked them and then you start growing some attachment to them... but really does this attachment come because you guys are just amazing for each other... or does it come out of the imperative to be with 'anyone' and they just happen to really be the most available.
Your words suggest that you're maybe not dealing this from a 'scarcity' mentality but i'd still really really suggest looking up the concept of over intvestment. Even if you do have plenty of women, hanging out with a girl a bit and fucking her once isn't really enough to really justify "such deep emotions and connections that warrants me feeling the lowest in my life ever"
I mean, to put it in perspective. Maybe she thought you were cute, and wanted to have a fun enjoyable experience with a cool guy. She hadn't been laid in 6months and wanted to get fucked. Then you guys spend time, have fun and hook up and all of a sudden the dude starts getting super intense "oh i think we have a deep connection" etc. (even if you don't say it explicitly it'll be apparent in your behaviour) and so she gets a bit put off/scared away by it and backs off a little. Or maybe she just scratches it up to some great transient thing and moves on.
One thing that is apparent is this:
This is wrong.
Everything about your relationship with this girl kind of goes against the grain of what people try to live here. You're trying to be her friend first and foremost, it's unsurprising that you get friendzoned.
Not to put a harsh spin on it, i feel for you... I really have been in this situation myself but you are just another person at a fork in the road.
As /u/ThrowawayPUA says. You make changes or you dig deeper.
My suggestion is to get off this subreddit for a while - there is a lot of chaff/bullshit that lead people the wrong way. Read the books.
There are lots
Read a bunch of them... and process them as objectively as possible.
You have to be very real with yourself over the next few months otherwise you'll be locked into this shit. But know this:
What qualities do you really think women are attracted to? Do you represent any of these?
Self pity is the ugliest of all emotions. Fix your shit up, make your life good and start unfucking it in a way so that you depend on you for your own well-being... not some deep fucking intense super-emotion required from another vaguely random person you've boned once or twice.
ignore /u/sorcererbro - don't toss them in the fire. Read them... they started me on the journey and essentially were the catalyst to change my life for the better too.
Awesome and helpful response. You're right about so much of that. I've already started reading "No More Mr Nice Guy" and there's so much truth for me in there. He speaks of paradigms by which we live, and I think I'm realizing that my paradigm for a romantic relationship might be a big part of the problem. I hide a lot of myself, and I think that the romantic side is something I don't, and have never, felt comfortable expressing. I have never even felt comfortable telling my parents when I was dating someone, for instance. The very idea of a close loving relationship makes me feel a lot of fear, and it might be that I friendzoned myself because I'm afraid of that deep, emotional, spiritual, romantic intimacy. So like, I treated our relationship as a close friendship with sex added on top and wasn't allowing the other parts in. And since she is, like most girls, highly intuitive, she felt that our romantic relationship just wasn't "right". Wow, as I type this that feels like a big and important revelation. I could be wrong about this, but it feels like a good place to explore. Like you said, I have a lot of learning and work to do.
And though I feel totally crushed right now, it is a different kind of crushed than I've ever before. I feel a fire burning inside of me that is hopeful and exciting and I'm going to use it to become the man and lover I was meant to be. The best man and person I can possibly be.
[–]TheMinistryOfAwesome 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think also a point you were nearing but didn't quite click with is this:
You're trying to make it some deen fantastic spirtiual affair of the heart... It seems to me that you see the girls you bang as some objects of this romanticised idea of what youi think love should be.
Love in this sense can't work unless both people feel it and ultimately you cant push anyone into it. You need to really hold yourself back from falling into the infatuation while you all spend time together. Just because you guys fuck and hang out a lot she isn't necessarily going to be your next wife. If you treat girls this way, the chances are you're going to be friendzoned a lot.
For every girl you think is your soul mate understad that there are millions of others who could be a better girlfriend for you (or as good).
I suggest, honestly, to get over this 'over attachment' thing... to commit to not being with the next 10 girls you fuck.
[–]PM_FOR_PUA_ADVICE2 points 10 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Visit a therapist. This is a community to share ideas and experiences about seducing women. Not a shoulder to cry on.
When you "decide" to man up and leave the boy behind, we will prod you in the right direction. right now you're crying like a wuss because you don't want to leave your comfort zone and accept the fact that all that your mother taught you growing up was a lie.
I appreciate the honest talk, but in my post I literally said "this is not a post of self-pity. Fuck that. I am writing this because it's time to make a change. I am going to embrace the methods of the seduction community and transform myself."
The point was that I've decided to use this heartbreak as an incentive to change my ways.
[–]nereprezentativ 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Amen!
[–]SecondVariety13 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Not so much giving advice but I just wanted to say that your post and the following responses really helped me out. I went through something similar a few months back and I have many of the same emotions you've described. It does hurt man. First time I've felt that kind of thing. I've been working on my inner-game ever since and I have made progress. However, building strong inner-game is a gradual process IMO. I have days all the time where those feelings of inadequacy, neediness, the fear that I'll never find mutual love (this is a big one), ect. come welling back up. But I no longer suppress them. I accept them, allow myself to feel them, realize that they don't define me and then reassure myself of my worth. I'll suggest a book I'm reading now - The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem. It's not geared towards seduction, rather it examines the psychology of self-esteem (inner-game) and how it affects all aspects of our lives.
Glad to hear this has been helpful. I'd be curious to hear what your situation was like and how everything went down. It's nice to hear others' stories to feel like you're not the only one it's happening to.
It's weird that right after this happened I felt the immediate urge to post on this site, not speak with a real life friend, because I knew what their advice would be: "Ah that sucks. You're awesome, though. It's her loss." I knew this community would instead respond "get your shit together and build yourself into a better man" which feels more comforting than pity or empathy for some reason.
[–]SecondVariety13 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My story is a pretty common one. I got into what I would consider my first serious relationship (I'm 24 btw). Really the first time I've had such strong feelings for a girl. At the time I thought I was in love, now I'm not so sure. Anyway, I ended up putting her on a pedestal and became pretty needy. I sensed her pulling away and tried harder to keep her around. Well you know how that goes...she gave me the "lets be friends talk". It really fucked with me for a while. I particularly struggled with the feeling you mentioned - the fear that girls I cared for (wary of using love here) would never care for me. I've had some flings in the past, but like I said this was the first that meant something to me and I lost her. That was hard to accept. Still is.
It's been 3 months and I'm getting better but I still feel the heartbreak. What has really helped me though has been trying to get my shit together and build myself into a better man, as you put it haha. This failed relationship also really opened my eyes to some internal issues. I'm really trying to work them out but I still have my high and low days, as I imagine you will. I constantly have to remind myself that significant change (usually) does not happen over night. It's a gradual process. The point is to keep moving. Feel free to pm me man if you're feeling low (or whenever haha)
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[–]_playswithsquirrels_ 9 points10 points11 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]redfeather99 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]sorcererbro 6 points7 points8 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]fakenamehere011 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]sorcererbro 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]fakenamehere011 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]sorcererbro 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SuperCows 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Lead ModeratorThrowawayPUA 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MasterOfMySoul 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]fakenamehere011 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]MasterOfMySoul 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Nugulus 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]fakenamehere011 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]fakenamehere011 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]fakenamehere011 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheMinistryOfAwesome 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]fakenamehere011 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheMinistryOfAwesome 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]PM_FOR_PUA_ADVICE2 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]fakenamehere011 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]nereprezentativ 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SecondVariety13 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]fakenamehere011 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]SecondVariety13 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link