How is it possible ?

roankr · 2025-02-04T17:37:00+00:00

Marxist feminism does not mean Karl Marx believed in the patriarchy. It means that a subsection of feminism used the framework that Marx provided in his literature to advocate for their cause.

JohnGoodman_69 · 2025-02-04T19:04:32+00:00

How is it possible that you people are LeftWing but do not believe in Patriarchy ?

Its not that I don't believe in it, see for example the attack on women's reproduction rights.

But "the patriarchy" is used in practice to stop examination of gender issues, misplace actual causes, etc.

The classic example is that when men criticize feminism and some issues men face, women blame the patriarchy, then say that feminism fights against the patriarchy. The sleight of hand they pull by doing that is the person doesn't say that feminism fights the patriarchy when it comes to men's issues. You can see it for yourself, the first post rule of r feminism is:

all posts and discussions must be relevant to women's issues

How can a movement fight for me if I'm not allowed to speak of the issues that affect me in one of its biggest public spaces?

This doesn't touch on the mental sleight of hand where women will place blame on the patriarchy for issues that men face as a way to remove blame from themself for enforcing and perpetuating those same issues.

OnePair1 · 2025-02-04T19:20:17+00:00

How is it possible that you people are LeftWing but do not believe in Patriarchy?

Patriarchy implies men make all the decisions, males RULE. this isn't true at all. The ones in power are Rich, Powerful, and had special connections long before they gained more power. Most just happened to be male, it wasn't because they were male. Let's say there is when you or someone talks about fighting the patriarchy...what do you want to replace it with? Because the rhetoric from various groups you will probably say you aren't connected with want to replace it will matriarchy.

I just want everyone to have the exact same rights, I am Egalitarian.

One of the far left icons Mr Karl Marx himself believed in patriarchy and Engel as well.

Okay, I don't have to agree entirely with someone even if they believe it.

There is an entire subsection of Feminism called Marxist Feminism.

Yes, note how they put a feminist label on it, that means it isn't Marxism but a variation.

lorarc · 2025-02-04T19:30:15+00:00

Define patriarchy.

Upbeat-Canary-3742 · 2025-02-04T20:10:52+00:00

Dude, just read the mission statement. It's all addressed there.

gratis_eekhoorn · 2025-02-04T16:39:47+00:00

OP do you consider yourself a feminist?

frackingfaxer · 2025-02-05T04:11:31+00:00

First of all, left-wing does not equal Marxist.

Secondly, when Marx used the word patriarchy, it did not mean what it means to contemporary feminists. By patriarchy, he was referring to a pre-capitalist economic and family order in which the male head of the household, the titular "patriarch," controlled property, labour, and production. Even in Marx's time, this was an increasingly antiquated mode of production, which Marx argued was in the process of being dismantled by capitalism. Hence, he writes in the Manifesto: "the bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations." For more, I would suggest checking out u/Oncefa2's post and its accompanying article here.

Local-Willingness784 · 2025-02-04T23:12:03+00:00

according to the Encyclopaedia Britannica:

left, in politics, the portion of the political spectrum associated in general with egalitarianism and popular or state control of the major institutions of political and economic life. The term dates from the 1790s, when in the French revolutionary parliament the socialist representatives sat to the presiding officer’s left. Leftists tend to be hostile to the interests of traditional elites, including the wealthy and members of the aristocracy, and to favour the interests of the working class (see proletariat). They tend to regard social welfare as the most important goal of government. Socialism is the standard leftist ideology in most countries of the world; communism is a more radical leftist ideology.

and im putting this because I want to feel fancier than someone taking something out of Wikipedia but in no part of this definition you see either feminist nor belief in patriarchy as a base characteristic of the left-wing ideology, most would say that with the "hostility to the interests of traditional elites" bit one would have to be a man hater, or a patriarch hater depending on how you see it, as lots of people at the top happen to be men, but I personally believe that class is more important than gender when it comes to using and misusing power, having women at the top wouldn't make our society better or even less worse, which is why I'm not a feminist or believe in a patriarchy, or at least is one of the reasons I have for that.

ObserverBlue · 2025-02-06T01:12:43+00:00

Because "patriarchy" is a hackneyed, distorted concept that means nothing at this point. "Patriarchy" as in "society in which leadership and/or political power is predominantly given to males" is not a thing in the modern Western world. "Patriarchy" as in "system in which men conspire as a group to oppress women" has never been a thing in recorded history.

Excellent_You5494 · 2025-02-05T01:02:26+00:00

Why do you think leftism is synonymous with Marxism?

This only proves my point, people who proport the patriarchy don't see men as human, they see men as the Bourgeoisie, the enemy the proletariat shall destroy in violent revolutions.

People like OP refuse to acknowledge systemic discrimination against men, because we are men, and the privileged, the bourgeois.

People who promote the patriarchy like OP are nearly always either collectivist authoritarians using it to grift power, or sexists man haters.

Anyone who promotes patriarchy like the feminists are not out to help men or free men. They are incapable of seeing their own sexism, much less the systemic sexism in society, even less the systemic discrimination they promote.

Patriarchy is a hate term, and it should be a goal to make it, the way feminists use it, official hate speech.

ZealousidealCrazy393 · 2025-02-14T16:54:35+00:00

Engels and Marx were referring to patriarchal family systems where men owned wives and kids like property and would leave their inheritance, etc. He's talking about systems of marriage and family that existed thousands of years ago.

From Engels:

"It is based on the supremacy of the man, the express purpose being to produce children of undisputed paternity; such paternity is demanded because these children are later to come into their father’s property as his natural heirs. It is distinguished from pairing marriage by the much greater strength of the marriage tie, which can no longer be dissolved at either partner’s wish."

It is precisely the opposite now in the western world, where women are awarded custody of children by default in divorce courts and the fathers are made to perform labor that belongs to the mother in form of child support. If we were a patriarchy, fathers would be the default custodians of children.

But feminists don't have a solid definition of patriarchy. For feminists, patriarchy is anything and everything, including men just sitting with their legs too far apart on the subway. The general definition is that patriarchy is a system where men hold all the power and they are rich with privileges women don't have. Again, this does not describe the western world very accurately. While it's true that men still hold lots of positions of power, men also occupy the absolute lowest positions of suffering in society (see homelessness, suicide, and substance abuse rates) and women have legal privileges men do not, such as legal protection from genital cutting and not having to register for the draft despite being allowed to volunteer to hold combat roles in the military. A system that privileged men would not allow males to be subjected to homelessness, genital cutting, forced military service, boys would not be falling so far behind in education, etc.

nophotohatemyface · 2025-02-04T23:24:43+00:00

☞ not believe in Patriarchy

people here don't do religious

people here do science

I don't care whose saying unicorn exist, just talk evidence to me

Title	How is it possible ?
Author	Ok-Time5668
Upvotes	0
Comments	29
Date	February 3, 2025 4:20 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1igsvjw/how_is_it_possible/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/how-is-it-possible.1542959 https://theredarchive.com/post/1542959

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