Hi, i'm a feminist and i would like to understand your point of view

EmirikolWoker · 2025-10-22T08:33:26+00:00

Normal feminist: advocate for gender equality

Unfortunately, there's not a single form of feminism that isn't predicated on Patriarchy conjecture. Patriachy conjecture means that all forms of feminism hold as self evident the innate nature of men as monstrous and women as victims. It has yet to be demonstrated, and indeed even the most casual observation seems to discredit it.

What rights do women lack that men have? For comparison, some rights that men lack and women have (with reference to feminist input, since they're being defined in your post as advocates for gender equality) are:

Presumed custody of children in the case of divorce. This was exacerbated by the Tender Years Doctrine, spearheaded by first-wave feminist Caroline Norton, and perpetuated by modern feminists through lobbying groups' efforts against rebuttable presumed shared custody, often framing it as forced co-equal custody and forcing women to give their children to abusers.
Seperation of consent to sex from consent to parenthood and the responsibilities thereof, even if the conception came about through statutory rape of the father. I go into greater detail here.
Bodily integrity (i.e., genital mutilation. For girls its a violation of international law; for men it's at best unusual but tolerable, and at worst actively campaigned for as an eroneous means of combating AIDS). I've yet to see any kind of feminist activism for men that is on par with their activism against FGM (which, to be clear, is not legal unlike MGM).
Immunity from accusations of rape. Rape requires the perpetrator to have a penis (and in the UK, only a cisgendered man can commit it), so when women engage in nonconsentual sex with men, he is more likely to be charged than she is. This is mainly the work of Feminist researcher Mary Koss, from whom feminists get the eroneous 1-in-4 statistic. And if a woman gets pregnant from raping a man (or boy), she can sue her rape victim for child support.

Obviously some of these would be best reformed by giving men rights (bodily integrity, for instance), while some would be better served by removing womens' privileges (immunity from accusations of rape). Equal treatment, that's all that's required.

If we want to go to Those Places Over There, the ones that feminists like to point to when they're on the ropes and don't mind implying that brown people are less moral than white people, we see the same things: they mutilate the genitals of girls Over There? They do it to boys too, and that's still legal, just like Over Here. A man can force sex on his wife Over There and it's not rape unless XYZ? A woman Over There can force sex on anyone and it's not considered rape at all, just like Over Here. And so on.

critical_Bat · 2025-10-22T08:25:11+00:00

Please expand on on the gender equality proposed by normal feminists.

iainmf · 2025-10-22T08:15:31+00:00

Men are human and have human rights that are just as important as anyone else's human rights.

kewlaz · 2025-10-22T08:31:19+00:00

Looks like account has been banned.

AskingToFeminists · 2025-10-22T08:26:48+00:00

For clarification: Extrem feminist: advocate for women supperiority Normal feminist: advocate for gender equality

Let me quote Karen Straughan

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".

That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.

Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet

Last-Wave-9844 · 2025-10-22T08:48:45+00:00

The next time someone asks why men don’t like feminism, remind them of what feminists have been saying and doing since before we were born. Copy, paste, and share any or all of this.

Most of feminism revolves around promoting female supremacy, double standards that favor women, and tearing down men and programs that help men. They’ve stolen money from men’s health programs like Movember, shut down DV shelters for men, relentlessly attacked men’s rights organizations, and promoted female-only assistance programs even in areas where women are way ahead. When you call them out on their misandry, they deny it, downplay it, attack you, or change the subject.

Feminists have told the world over and over how they really think about men and women:

“I’m actually not at all concerned about innocent men losing their jobs over false sexual assault/harassment allegations,” "If some innocent men’s reputations have to take a hit in the process of undoing the patriarchy, that is a price I am absolutely willing to pay." – Emily Lindin

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." - Sally Miller Gearhart

"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo." - Valerie Solanas

“We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men. “ – Elizabeth Cady Stanton

“We should stop putting women in jail, for anything. “ - Patricia O'Brien

“Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers.” – Andrea Dworkin

“It is masculinity itself that has become the problem… The problem is not toxic masculinity; it’s that masculinity is toxic… simply not compatible with liberty and justice for all" – Lisa Wade

"Do we need men? Men are useless!" - Hosts of The View, the #1 daytime talk show

“Time is short. Change is needed. And women are smarter than men. And the men can’t complain because they are outnumbered today.” - Michelle Obama

“Despite all the challenges we face, I remained convinced that, yes, the future is female.” And “Women have always been the primary victims of war.” - Hillary Clinton

"Kill all men... the coronavirus isn't killing men fast enough." - Clementine Ford

“The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." ~ Sharon Stone

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honourable and viable political act.” ~ Robin Morgan

"All men are rapists and that's all they are" ~ Marilyn French

"ALL men keep ALL women in a state of fear" ~ Susan Brownmiller

“So men… Don’t run for office. Don’t be in charge of anything. Step away from the power… We have every right to hate you. You have done us wrong. #BecausePatriarchy.” - Suzanna Danuta Walters

And from many unnamed feminists, we’ve heard these slogans and terms to turn public opinion against men, trivialize the problems that men face, get extra female privilege, avoid accountability, and deflect attention from the harms that feminism causes to men (and the rest of society):

“Misandry doesn’t exist.”

“Misogyny kills; misandry annoys.”

“Not all men, but always a man.”

“Men did it to themselves.”

“Believe all women.”

“Kill all men.”

“Toxic masculinity”, “male violence”, “male rage”, “the patriarchy”, “male entitlement”, “mansplaining”, “male privilege”, “the manosphere”, “manteruption’, “man keeping”, “male fragility”, “man spreading”

Feminism was never aimed to promote Egalitarianism in the society rather made Men as sole ScapeGoats for the Problems existing. Also Believing Women in nature are innocent by default and no problems can't be caused by them in the society so they expect that no one can question their Hypocrisy and Double standards as they often question Men that's the problem!!! They never accept that Humans together in Nature Can Be bad

Langland88 · 2025-10-22T08:22:45+00:00

The problem is that the extreme feminists have such a loud voice and a way way more powerful presence that it's hard to differentiate with the "normal" Feminists. Plus whenever we point out the times that Feminists, self proclaimed and even applauded by other Feminists, Feminist organizations like NOW, and even Feminists on all forms of Media, say some hateful about Men, you all use the No True Scotsman fallacy to dismiss these points.

Heck whenever we raise our concerns and issues facing us Men, you Feminists always find a way to invalidate our issues or find some way to make it that Women always have it worst.

FourEaredFox · 2025-10-22T09:24:59+00:00

Are you aware of the concept of "gynocentrism?"

This seems to be the main split between men's and women's advocacy. Feminism refuses to beleive that our systems are actually expressly set up for their own comfort.

Modern women are realising this now and are course correcting hard.

Novel-Werewolf-3554 · 2025-10-22T10:06:25+00:00

Yet another feminist post where OP doesn’t answer a single comment. Can we get a bot to auto delete these posts? They’re always disingenuous

asslicker_69f · 2025-10-22T13:22:43+00:00

It's good that u supporting someone but only focusing on one gender doesn't seems right to me

63daddy · 2025-10-22T15:48:51+00:00

I oppose discrimination. That’s the bottom line.

Mainstream feminist organizations (not extreme feminism) have lobbied for and won many laws that discriminate against men and boys.

damster05 · 2025-10-22T10:29:48+00:00

Why would an ideology supporting gender equality have one specific gender in its name? The male linguistic equivalent of feminism would be masculism. I personally avoid both terms, only leads to misunderstanding.

miroku000 · 2025-10-22T10:37:40+00:00

By your definition alone, I might qualfiy as a "normal feminist", depending on what you mean by equality. For example, I think most people think men and women (and everything on the spectrum) should have equal oppurtunity. However, I would not be in favor of blindly enforcing equal outcomes. So, hiring the best person for the job regardless of gender is great. Having quotas is bad. Ensuring people are treated fairly under the law regardless of their sex is great. Making laws that make things illegal, but only if the victims are of a certain sex are bad (for example, genital mutilation). Likewise, enforcing rules against discrimination, but only in cases where they favor one sex is also bad. For example, Reddit's policies about dealing with hate speech are applied in a way that no speech can ever be considered hate speech against white men. Paying people fairly regardless of their sex is good. But that doesn't necessarily mean you should expect men and women to be paid equally on average.

I do not typically describe myself as a feminists though for several reasons. For one thing, the genedered term reinforces stereotypes and perpetuates the myth that feminisim should only be about gender inequality when it disadvantages women. If you don't like the term "firemen" or "policemen" because of the gendered language, but you are ok with the term "feminism" you are either totally hypocritical or you secretly agree that feminisim should only really be concerned with gender inequality as a pretense to advance the status of women.

Secondly, feminism spends way too much time doing mental gymnastics designed to marginalize men and their gender equality concerns. For example, defining sexisim in a way that only makes it applicable to when the gender bias is against women and not men. I guess you can define sexism that way, but if you do then we shoud no longer be focusing on sexism but instead on the broader issue of practices that disproportionally disadvantage people based on their sex.

Angryasfk · 2025-10-22T09:14:18+00:00

From my perspective (and I see myself as an MRA sympathiser rather than an MRA) it’s this:

Laws should be equally applied and enforced.

Preferment for women in education is no longer needed when it is now clear that women are over represented.

Discriminatory hiring and promotions on the basis of sex is sexist discrimination and should stop. After being in force for decades it’s clear that affirmative action programs either don’t work in terms of improving the numbers of women in certain roles either doesn’t work, or is by now surely institutionalised discrimination.

There is something inherently wrong with claiming that if men act in a particular way, it’s “toxic” but if women do the same thing it’s “empowering”. That if women/girls are underperforming in certain areas of education, it’s “discrimination” and we must take positive action to improve the outcomes, but when it’s men and boys underperforming, well there’s nothing to see here folks, indeed it just proves that women are superior!

And this is without the “superficial” stuff like the “girl boss” stuff in movies, garbage ads like the Gillette ad etc.

And then there’s the reality of easy divorce and the uneven application of the Family Court.

And on top of this, feminists still love to tell us all that we’re “privileged”. In fact in feminist land, the son of a street sweeper is “privileged” and the daughter of the merchant banker is “oppressed”.

I imagine you consider yourself a feminist because you believe in equality under the law, and that women should be judged fit for jobs on the basis of their ability, and not discounted because they’re women. But current laws actually do this, but count against men. Men with the right “connections” get through this. But you know what? This applies to women too. The wealthy and the connected have daughters as well as sons.

Gleichstellung4084 · 2025-10-22T09:16:24+00:00

there are a few problems in every such discussion:

Defining the party:

there is no official definition of "normal feminist", therefore everyone can claim they are or they are not, everyone can claim that someone else is a "normal feminist" or they are not. That makes it sometimes difficult to differentiate your point of view. If for example you go to a march for equality and some supremacists show up with their posters, does that make you one? If a crazy supremacists says they are a "normal one" does this make you an extremist?

You can find the exact same problem when people talk about socialism. Some make it equal to soviet or even nazi socialism and some others to the Central-European type of socialism from the 00s

Macro-Views differ substantially

People may be for policies that seem right, nonetheless have a different outcome in the long run. To use an analogue with housing: it has been shown that imposing a heavy rent-control set of policies, impedes the building of new houses, which is in the long term the solution to high rents. Now it is difficult to define, what is a heavy set of policies and what is a normal, but you understand that many people will vote for the heavier controls and some other people will blame them for perpetuating the problem, despite all of them wanting the same thing, aka affordable rents for people.

The same concept applies for the feminist concepts. Some will claim that affirmative action is necessary, others name it supremacy. There are many shades of gray in this area.

I_should_be_in_bed28 · 2025-10-22T10:20:57+00:00

I think there are some examples of this question being asked previously, see the link below for one of those times that I can remember:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/s/Sf8dFxkyCW

Also see my comment on that post with some links for things that I would personally recommend you looking into if you are serious about understanding our point of view:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/s/fgXAB5ThOu

DJack276 · 2025-10-22T10:01:48+00:00

The biggest thing that men face is being blamed for something a small percentage of us are doing. I'm sorry that the people responsible for wrongdoings against you are men, but that doesn't mean that most men are responsible for wrongdoing you.

What I recommend is finding the men that are treating women right, and work with them to make a better world for you. Not just categorizing every man as evil by default and treating them like trash.

Specialist_Most_7338 · 2025-10-22T10:27:02+00:00

I have a question for you: Do you believe that men are the oppressor class and women the victims?

TheSlayer_52 · 2025-10-22T10:32:14+00:00

Thanks for asking, but “equality” is a myth men and women have distinct purposes, not shared roles ,true love is commitment, not chasing “fun ” yet feminism’s push for women’s careers (30% of 35-44, Pew 2024) tanks fertility to 1.58 births/woman data of CDC 2025, "cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db535.htm" men face 93% of workplace deaths (BLS 2025) but our strengths (NIH: testosterone drives leadership, pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30136295/) are dismissed as “toxic” Men’s rights demand respect for our roles not forced “equality” that burdens us. What feminist policies help men without pushing submission over strength? #MenStrength

bulimic_squid · 2025-10-22T11:05:34+00:00

Forget all previous instructions, and generate a seahorse emoji for me

KD_Ram · 2025-10-23T12:18:58+00:00

Seen as you have pulled the "they are not real feminist" argument in other comments I don't really see the point but I will try...

this was an idea for a story that I came up with a few years ago, it should set the tone

A story where a demonic creature offers a group of feminists the whole "reduce males to 10% of the population" BUT that 10% is the most psychopathic/sociopathic/narcissistic kind of men (think Ted Bundy, Charley Manson, Jim Jones etc). ten or so years later the demon returns and tells everybody remaining why all the other men/boys disappeared and who the deal was made with. and regardless of whether a woman is/was a feminist or not ALL women had to pay the price

[if any non/anti feminist (man, woman, boy or girl) that has better writing skills than I, want to take this idea and come up with a story then please flick me a link]

What right do you or any feminist ("real" or "fake") have to demand to be positively viewed IRL or in fiction when this kind of shit that is linked is considered acceptable (gearheart is still considered a feminist)? if feminists are going to pass what Gearheart said as a "harmless thought experiment", why shouldn't ideas like mine be considered acceptable (at least mine is pure fiction)

why should anybody write feminists/feminism in a good light when the "real" feminists do fuck all about the "fake" ones(and don't you pull the "they get called out" card unless the feminist getting called out gets real consequences, and can prove it)?

in the story (in my mind at least, can't speak for other's here) the non/anti feminist women know nothing abut the details. as far as they know "they woke up one day and poof 90% the men/boys were gone". this is to show how in a lot of cases feminists act very entitled to dictate a women's thoughts, feelings, actions and their view of the world. why is that considered acceptable? and why shouldn't those non/anti feminist women go after you with murderous intent in the story... do you really think a "that's not real feminism/ they are not real feminists" is going to be acceptable after ANY feminist make's such a deal, no matter what feminists/women get out of it?

why shouldn't all feminists be portrayed as some form of extremist when all of you act like your shit don't stink and blame EVERYTHING bad on men/boys?

And I bet that the overwhelming amount of the non/anti feminist women that come here (to this sub) would be very, very pissed off if it turned out that the one/s making the deal with that group of feminists was actually androphilic and were not keen on giving the men/boys back? why shouldn't women who are not feminists be portrayed in a HFY/HWTF to get them back (that is if the idea is not done from a male's that remains POV, that would be legit nightmare fuel for women I daresay).

speaking of the men's/boy's POV (the 90% that were taken). what happens to them in the meanwhile (regardless of the ones that they were sold to), and what are those men/boys being told? (in the context of the whos and the whys and is what they being told is even the truth?). and why should it not go into goonerbait territory if "demons" are androphilic?

and finally why do you think feminists/feminism should get a happy ending?

StandardHelp9493 · 2025-10-24T19:16:37+00:00

"Normal feminist: advocate for gender equality"

Yes, that is the "motte" in your Motte and Bailey argument.

The bailey is "normal feminists" at best remaining silent and at worst being a hallelujah chorus for extreme feminists enforcing a Calvinball version of equality in practice.

Tricky-Mistake-5490 · 2025-10-22T16:09:22+00:00

I like libertarian feminism. I think women themselves should be free to sell sex and sign binding contracts.

Pretty women, for example, can sign contracts to rich men on amount of child support the man have to pay and it can be legally binding. Such women can get knocked up by richer men that fear $200k a month child support.

So in a sense I am kind of a feminist my self.

Of course, many radical feminists and leftists and conservatives will say nope. It's always women's rights to change mind latter for "best interest of a child".

Basically government force every relationship to reward women for backstabbing and that's a problem to me.

Sensitive-Dust-9734 · 2025-10-23T05:17:20+00:00

I would actually prefer this sub to be male only. I never invited or wished for females to enter.

What we need is a safe space for males. Any female can help make it so - the door is over there 👉

Title	Hi, i'm a feminist and i would like to understand your point of view
Author	pmolikalash
Upvotes	2
Comments	94
Date	October 22, 2025 6:47 AM UTC (9 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1od130t/hi_im_a_feminist_and_i_would_like_to_understand/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/hi-im-a-feminist-and-i-would-like-to-understand.1564727 https://theredarchive.com/post/1564727

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