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[–]SarcastiCock8 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You should call them out whenever you find them. I've rarely seen faggot used here. Also, try to get past being offended, there is no such thing in the real world as a "safe space"
[–]readoclock3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't believe in getting passed being offended - the way we respond to it is important yes but we should still acknowledge it.
I agree that there is no safe space but that doesn't mean we can't work to make this one safer!
I chose to call it out here publicly rather than engaging in individual call outs because I didn't want to specifically upset individuals or start arguments with them as I am aware many people that use these words do not actually mean them in a homophobic way or realise the damage that simple words can cause.
I also think it is an important message and discussion for all of us. Sorry for the long response!
[–]Apemazzle9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Call out the individuals and people like me will upvote/support you.
[–]chocoboat2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree that stupid and harmful behavior should be called out and should be rid from society. But at some point you have to realize we're quite a ways from accomplishing that goal and that there will continue to be idiots spewing hateful speech.
And I think you should try not to take offense and try to get past it... because the moronic opinion of a person with the mental capability of a four year old should not matter to you. If you tell a four year old it's naptime and he's upset about that and calls you a poopyhead, you don't take that insult to heart and get offended, you realize that this is a very immature person and that his words don't matter.
[–]notnotnotfred8 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
specifically I have seen the word "faggot" tossed about frequently.
where?
if I google faggot site:http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/
I get three hits over the last month; 19 since January 1st.
Of those 19, 4 used "faggot" as an insult, and the person making the insult was called out.
[–]notnotnotfred3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
the other 15 noted things like "you'll be called a faggot for doing x,y,z " - where x,y,z usually amounted to expressing feelings or being weak - and identifying with the problem.
[–]nick0120006 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
On the one hand, the Men's Rights Movement is indeed an inclusive, bi-partisan movement that works for the rights of all men, regardless of sexuality.
On the other, well, this sort of thing is how /r/feminism became the cesspit of "safe space" censorship that it is today, and I don't think any of us want this sub to wind up like that.
[–]YetAnotherCommenter5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't see 'faggot' used very frequently around here. The MHRM is both trans-inclusive and nonheterosexual-inclusive. The tradcons are a minority, and there are are several gay MRAs here (I am not gay, but I am not straight either).
I think the vast majority of the content here is devoid of any homophobia.
[–]readoclock4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that it is a super common occurrence or indicative of the way that the majority of people here treat others. It was simply something that I observed several times and it would upset me if it became an acceptable norm.
For everyone else carry on. I just believe its right for the movement to actively call out and discuss this kind of thing... So that's what I'm doing!
[–]baskandpurr3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
There is one guy who trolls the sub who is a bit obssesed with the word faggot. He gets deleted and banned. He's one of the very few people who ever do get banned. Not because of the word faggot but because he's a troll with nothing useful to say.
The sub is pretty welcoming to homosexuality. I know of a couple of regular posters who have declared themselves as gay, people who declare themselves female (as if we mind) and at least one transsexual. These things are generally treated as something of an irrelevance.
[–]YetAnotherCommenter1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Oh, well that's reasonable. And I agree, we shouldn't accept homophobia as part of the MHRM. The MHRM is all for anyone that either had, has or wants to have a penis, irrespective of what you did, do or plan to do with said penis.
[–]ChickenThings-7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Discuss what? Faggot faggot faggot... Just a word bro... Im pretty new to this subsection but its strange how girly it seems already. Also, You ever seen Louis C.K. Dude that guy is HILARIOUS! Pretty underground but easily my fave. Anyway, he has several videos where he uses the word faggot and nigger and they are really just words ya know? Cant give them power know what Im preaching faggot? < LMAO just trolling you right there with that joke. Anyways check out Louis C.K. Both the show and stand ups are great great stuff. And it REALLY seems like you and the others that up voted you need to see him.
Its times like this Im glad Im a conneseuir of lesser known comedy XD !
[–]notacrackheadofficer3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
/r/comedy is that way --> you are in the wrong sub.
[–]Lolthien4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You know, I am usually the guy to brush off things like that unless they are obviously meant as belittling or insulting statements.
But you make a very good point that this area should be inclusive to men of all stripes, and it should feel safe. I agree with you, upvotes all around.
[–]Steampunk_Moustache3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I can't say I've seen the word used her much at all, but regardless, context is more important than the word itself - as it should always be.
When people say 'fag', or 'faggot' these days, they are rarely literally referring to homosexuals.
I have literally a dozen gay friends who have outright told me I can say fag infront of them and they don't give a shit. Most of them use it themselves. 90% of the people I hear complaining about the term 'fag' are women, despite the fact that, even in the more offensive context, it's a word used overwhelmingly against men, not women.
[–]MortalBean3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
did a quick search for "faggot" on men's rights. On the first page of results for new posts every single post except for three is about being called a faggot(mostly in the context of female on male rape and making men conform to sterotypes), the two that arn't about that are someone's user name which includes faggot, a feminist article and a link to someone calling MRAs faggots.
[–]ThatWhichisThat2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Probably trolls, just report them.
[–]MRSPArchiver1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)
[–]sillymod1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
a) This is not a story.
b) We have a meta sub.
c) We have seen a large rise in trolls in the last week or so. You are free to report the people you see, and we will review it.
[–][deleted]0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
As an aside did you know being a pussy actually means being a scaredy cat and has nothing to do with women? Don't fall into the trap of letting women make everything about their pussies. Any time it's about being a coward or something it's pretty clear which pussy we're talking about. The same can't be said for being a dick. That phrase is misandrist because it has no other meaning than to associate bad behavior with penis as opposed to being in reference to some animal exhibiting some behavior.
[–]Lolthien3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
As an aside did you know being a pussy actually means being a scaredy cat and has nothing to do with women?...
...The same can't be said for being a dick. That phrase is misandrist because it has no other meaning than to associate bad behavior with penis as opposed to being in reference to some animal exhibiting some behavior.
I apologize, but I can't tell if you are being sarcastic here or not with these two statements.
[–]JessicaBurde1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Interesting. My partner uses it to mean pusillanimous (He's a $50 word guy)
[–]Apemazzle0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah but pussy also means vagina, so it's nonetheless problematic cos most people using the insult "pussy" don't know that it's not derived from its use to mean vagina (including myself until recently).
problematic
Oh for fuck sake.
[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That troll came out of the problem attic. It needs to go back there.
[–]Apemazzle1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah I find it annoying as well but it's just shorthand. Allow me to elaborate:
Young children learn the two slang meanings of the word pussy, namely "vagina" and "weak person". This reinforces a pre-existing notion that girls are weaker (in character) than boys. Hence the use of this word to mean a weak person has a negative effect on their view of women, as it causes them to associate femininity with weakness of character (or at least reinforces such an association if it is already present).
Now do you see why I just said "problematic"?
[–]Steampunk_Moustache2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Young children learn the two slang meanings of the word dick, namely "penis" and "obnoxious or aggressive person". This reinforces a pre-existing notion that boys are less agreeable (in character) than girls. Hence the use of this word to mean an obnoxious person has a negative effect on their view of men, as it causes them to associate masculinity with obnoxious character (or at least reinforces such an association if it is already present).
Now do you see why I don't like playing word police?
No, in fact I agree almost completely. Gendered insults are bad, and that includes insults such as "dick", "cock", "ball bag" etc.
[–]Steampunk_Moustache1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't have that much of a desire to tell people what they can and can't say, honestly. Seems kind of, you know, totalitarian.
[–]Apemazzle2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Lol what about the "n" word?
I don't think it's a crazy idea to suggest that by stopping children from using gendered insults like "cock", "bitch" etc. we can make a dent in societal sexism. For example, it's a very pervasive idea that males have a certain capacity for aggression that females simply don't have, and part of that may be down to the rationalisation of immoral behaviour by men as just the expected actions of a "dick", "prick", "bastard", "tosser" etc.
Maybe if we just called all immoral people arseholes/arses/shitheads/fuckfaces there would be less sexism - namely less stereotyping of the sexes as having particular arsey traits.
What about it?
I don't think it's a crazy idea to suggest that by stopping children from using gendered insults like "cock", "bitch" etc.
I think it's a crazy idea to suggest that you can stop children from using the naughtiest words they know whenever parents and teachers aren't listening.
For example, it's a very pervasive idea that males have a certain capacity for aggression that females simply don't have, and part of that may be down to the rationalisation of immoral behaviour by men as just the expected actions of a "dick", "prick", "bastard", "tosser" etc.
Cunt and Bitch are both tied to aggression. Such words don't exist for men only.
I don't want to live in a world where casual speech is regulated. I refuse to go back to the 1920's.
You come across as overly stubborn. Yes, we all remember that one kid at school who would say "nigger" when the teachers weren't around and make the rest of us laugh. BUT we all ultimately learned that "nigger" is not an acceptable word to use, and thus almost all of us stopped using it - despite our natural childish inclinations to be "naughty".
Why? Because the authority figures gave us a proper reason. For words like "fuck" all they said was, "Don't say that! That's a swear word!", but for words like the "n" word they told us, "Don't say that! That's racist!". Hence we carried on saying fuck, but stopped saying the "n" word. Similarly, if we teach kids that words like "bitch" and "prick" are sexist (and not just "bad words"), they will learn to stop using them.
Yeah but there's a gendered aspect to it, that's why I called it "a certain capacity for aggression" not just "a capacity for aggression". For example, both "bitch" and "dick" can be applied to men but they are not interchangeable. They have different meanings, and those meanings are associated with a given gender. We associate "bitchiness" with females, and only call males bitches when they behave in a way that's perceived as feminine somehow. The same is true of "dickishness" - we associate it with males.
To break down these stereotypes (that "bitchiness" is a feminine thing, and "dickishness" is masculine), we need to stop applying insults to only (or predominantly) one gender - just as we've stopped applying insults to only one race.
1) I'm only talking about what we teach children. I said nothing of "regulating" casual speech amongst adults. I don't want people losing jobs for calling each other dicks - or at least not until society has developed past that (i.e. several decades from now).
2) You seem muddled - the 20s was a time when it was acceptable to use the "n" word. Now it is not. We have progressed, and we should progress more.
BUT we all ultimately learned that "nigger" is not an acceptable word to use, and thus almost all of us stopped using it - despite our natural childish inclinations to be "naughty".
I use it all the time among people I know aren't reactionary fools. To express surprise:
"Awwww shit, nigger!"
To congratulate:
"Mah nigga."
To express disbelief:
"Nigga, please."
And more. I use them daily. Nnnobody cares. Only on the internet do I run into people who claim they do.
You seem muddled - the 20s was a time when it was acceptable to use the "n" word
It was, but it was also a time when a man could expect get his teeth knocked out if he used coarse language in the presence of of a woman above his pay grade.
The bottom line here is that it's not misogynistic, but ailurophobic if anything.
[–]Apemazzle-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Nah the bottom line is that children learn that pussy means "weak", then they also learn that it means "vagina", and that reinforces the negative stereotype that women are weaker than men. The ailurophobic origin is irrelevant to the negative effect on women.
Misogynistic? Perhaps the wrong word to use depending on how you define misogyny, but it's certainly sexist against women.
[–]spriggig-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
People choose to be offended about a lot of things--it's no one's responsibility but their own.
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