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Update: Issues Integrating LTR into Friend Group

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August 3, 2017
11 upvotes

You can find the original post [HERE] (https://www.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6n3zvh/issues_integrating_ltr_into_friend_group/) This is a long post with dialogue, TL;DR at the end.

The event that I was referring to happened last weekend. It was a Friday - Sunday reunion event, so LTR and I were on vacation from Thursday - Monday. We scheduled in extra time for travel, because we had flights with long connections due to the lack of decent direct flights from the nearest airport.

The schedule was: Friday: evening cocktail party and dinner Saturday Morning: guys and girls events (guys going golfing/girls doing wine tasting event) Saturday Evening: boat party Sunday: group brunch

We sat down the Wednesday evening before the trip and went over the schedule together. She also shared with me her fears that this would be a repeat of the wedding, and we discussed signals and ways that she could show me she was beginning to feel uncomfortable.

On Thursday, we arrived and checked into our rental. We unpacked and organized our things and went out for dinner at a restaurant the I had made reservations at.

Friday night arrives and LTR is all dressed up and ready for the cocktail party (I don't want to know how much time or money she spent on outfits and accessories, but she looked smoking the entire weekend). We arrive at the party and head to the bar. LTR "doesn't drink" (aka drinking is rare), so I made sure that we got there early enough that she could make friends with a bartender and arrange for her to serve mocktails throughout the evening. You would be surprised how often she gets shit for not drinking from people, and she didn't want the extra pressure of explaining herself all night.

Next, I found us a table and we settled in so that people had to come to us if they wanted to talk. Things went well, I introduced my financée to those who hadn't met her yet. There were plenty of new spouses and significant others (both male and female), so unlike the wedding LTR wasn't the only new person.

When my core group of friends arrived, greetings went okay and everyone caught up on each other's lives. Then as we moved towards more substantive conversation, I noticed some signs that two of my friends were purposefully ignoring and being rude to LTR. She noticed it too, and after it happened enough times that it was not an accident, she signaled that she was uncomfortable. We had already talked about what would happen next, so I knew the next time it happened I would jump in.

A couple of minutes later, LTR again tries to engaged in the conversation and asks Friend A a direct question. Friend A immediately changes topic, ignoring LTR. But, before I was able to interject and ask Friend A what the fuck his problem is, LTR says the following:

LTR: "Excuse me A, I asked you a question. Would you mind answering? Or in lieu of an answer, you can feel free to explain to me what your problem is. I'm sure everyone here would love to hear the reason you and B keep pretending like I don't exist."

A: Silence

B: Silence

LTR: "Looks like you two do not have an explanation for your behavior. That leads me to believe that you are both choosing to be rude. It is unfortunate that you are so immature. I was raised to treat people with respect, so let me respectfully say this ... Either remove the sticks you have up your asses and explain what the problem is so we can find a solution, or please kindly remove yourselves from this conversation."

A: "Vlad, you need to learn to control your fiancée."

Me: "I was ready to say the exact same thing to both of you, and it would not have been so eloquently worded. You heard LTR. Either share your grievances so we can move past your bullshit or leave."

A: "Have fun being married to that bitch."

B: "Looks like LTR has really changed you Vlad, and not for the better."

Me: "I believe you were asked to leave if you couldn't offer an explanation of why you two are such dickheads. As you have both throughly embarrassed yourselves and your wives, I would highly suggest leaving the entire party. You know where to find us if you are inclined to apologize and beg for forgiveness."

A decent amount of the guests at this reunion had the pleasure of witnessing this exchange and watching A and B exit the party. Word quickly spread when there were four empty seats at dinner. After this exchange I took LTR aside and told her that I was very proud of her for sticking up for herself, and that I supported everything she did and said.

LTR: "I know you promised that you would handle the situation, and I never doubted you for a moment. I'm not going to lie, that shit mad me pretty fucking angry, and I wanted the satisfaction of standing up for myself. I wanted them to know I knew exactly what they were doing. I'm sorry if I stepped on your toes and deviated from the plan."

Me: I understand why you said and did what you did. I support you sticking up for yourself, and I am proud of you for going out of your comfort zone. I have your back. If you want we can leave now too, but I think we should stay and rock it and be awesome. A and B are the little bitches babe, not you.

We stayed and had a blast. Suddenly everyone wanted to be our new best friends. A and B were no shows for the golf outing as well. I arranged a spa day for LTR instead of the wine tasting, because she doesn't drink. But, I heard from some of the other women that their wives still showed up and did nothing but bitch about their husbands.

I would like to say that there was a come to Jesus moment where A and B apologized and everyone started to get along, but that never happened. I saw them around the rest of the weekend, but we never spoke again. Maybe we never will, who knows. Either way, my already great relationship has improved. This was the one nagging doubt floating around between LTR and me, and it is gone.

TL;DR Hoity toity people enjoy drama, and that is no longer my life. Took everyone's advice about confronting my friends for being dicks to my LTR. She beat me to the punch, and I had her back the entire weekend. Ended up being one of the times I've been proudest of LTR. There comes a time in life where it is okay to put "hoes before bros."


Post Information
Title Update: Issues Integrating LTR into Friend Group
Author V1adimirPoontin
Upvotes 11
Comments 27
Date 03 August 2017 06:24 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205756
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6reblw/update_issues_integrating_ltr_into_friend_group/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
dramalong term relationship
Comments

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good, now do that with everything else and you're golden

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

slow clap Also, fuck those guys.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

"I noticed some signs that two of my friends were purposefully ignoring and being rude to LTR."

Fags get jealous easy their stripes are now exposed, they settled apparently and you, according to your description of LTR didn't and she maybe of higher value and they are now bitchy, coming out like queens in dealing with her

Any hoo, now that you see the value of being a man in a finicky situation, and allowing her to stick up for herself, then backing her up, the role of leader becomes stronger

Piece of advice, don't get into too many of these situations, it's pretty unattractive, I still have to excuse me and mrs screech from her family functions of bullshit and my industry of drunk dudes eyefucking her to death, especially jealous of why did they settle with the county fair piglet that keeps growing around the belly

If you evaluate your buddies lives, they are fucked, living in the shadow of their wives, don't be that

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am thankful every holiday that my LTR's family gets along. Her parent's divorced while she was in college and they can bicker at times, but other than that family get togethers with the future in-laws have been smooth sailing.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

For the record, I don't believe your written account is 100% accurate, you James Bond wannabe motherfucker, but that doesn't matter. If you handled this situation at 20% of what you said here, than nice work.

There's a lot of criticism for women on the red pill, and the women in your life absolutely deserve to be held to a high standard, but don't always fall for the "bros before ho's" meme. I've known many guys who I considered friends and have known longer than my girl, but for whatever reason they end up being drains on my life. I'll chose my girl over "Bros" like that any day. Associate with those that add value to your life, and ignore the rest.

When your girl is truly in love and dedicated to you, it's you and her vs. the world, and that's what you want. Otherwise it would still just be you vs. the world. You did good my man.

I agree with /u/countpudyoola aND /u/screechhater that you need to be careful. Your woman will use this shit to test you and see exactly how much power she has over you. Proceed with caution and heed their word's. Be the man but only when it's necessary. Also keep lifting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

On my anonymous internet honor, I solemnly swear this is 100% accurate. Though I will admit it is true that I will never know exactly what my friends or LTR were thinking throughout this whole, but I think my estimations are pretty accurate.

don't always fall for the "bros before ho's" meme

As I continue to age and enter a new phase in my life, this is something I've really struggled with. The "bro's before ho's" mentality played a strong role in my outlook on friendships and socializing. I've always played sports. I started when I could barely walk and kick a ball, in high school, at the college level and continued in rec leagues as an adult. My friends have "been on my team" since we were little. The same type of mentality was the theme of my college and fraternity career. Never let the bitches come between brothers.

Associate with those that add value to your life, and ignore the rest.

This is biggest lesson learned from this experience. It is ok to cut people out who don't add value to your life, whether you've known them for 30 years or 30 minutes. I am still undecided on if I would forgive them and give them a second chance. Whether or not LTR would is entirely up to her. Actually, one of the lingering issues of this whole saga is that I suddenly find myself in need of 2 additional groomsmen.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

"Groomsmen"

lol keep reading bro

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I discovered MRP after I got engaged, but nothing I've read has changed my mind about my decision to marry. I'll leave it at, because that isn't the focus of this post.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you my man. Just know that every decision you make is your own and no one gives a shit about you but you.

Good luck.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like you nailed it. Not sure what your friend's problems were. Maybe jealously? I don't know. Sometimes some people can only feel good about themselves by trying to knock those around them down a peg or two. Maybe you just have too much going for you for their liking. Guys can be bitches sometimes too.

Also proud of your LTR for standing up for herself. Your friends were dicks to her and by extension dicks to you.

Nice work.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This reads like a made for tv drama but it's like we're missing something. Men don't normally act catty like this. Ignoring people to their face during conversation. Either these dudes are straight up fags or your leaving something out about why they're such catty bitches.

When I first read your op I thought you were talking about some women in your friend group until you later clarified. I had a hard time wrapping my head around it and still do. Something is missing from this story.

Does anyone not see this too?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy

She also shared with me her fears that this would be a repeat of the wedding, and we discussed signals and ways that she could show me she was beginning to feel uncomfortable.

aka bringing you into her frame. :-/

I noticed some signs that two of my friends were purposefully ignoring and being rude to LTR. She noticed it too, and after it happened enough times that it was not an accident, she signaled that she was uncomfortable. We had already talked about what would happen next, so I knew the next time it happened I would jump in.

Ok, the stage is set , Sir Lancelot, break out your lance and defend her honourrrr.

And the rest....nice dialog about an uncomfortable forced moment at a wedding with your cohorts.

Dude, wtf.

I went back to read the first periodical.

So yay and all, but maybe let's dial it back...

Shorter and better version with better outcome:

You: "Hey, we have to do this socially expected thing. This time it's for me, next time it'll be for you. The people are a little cliquish, we'll put in our time and then bolt."

Her: <insert fear , worry, etc>

You: "I get it. I'm sure there'll be a reverse and I promise not to complain when it's my turn."

Get there. Things go as expected. People start to be a little rude<LEGIT MIND YOU...DON'T BE SO PREOCCUPIED WITH YOUR FRAGILE SNOWFLAKE THAT YOU MISS OUT ON GOOD MEMORIES>. Mitigate SOCIALLY and without unnecessary confrontation. Turn your attention to her and be her talking partner. Tell her before hand a wink lets her know you'll be bolting at first chance and maybe give her a squeeze. Fucking lead...my man.

Then bolt. Bang her on every piece of the furniture in the hotel room. Stop with all the soap opera interplay and drama. That's the womenz domain. Let them play with that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

This was my instinct on how to act when I made my original post, but I was repeatedly corrected. After those responses, I took some time to meditate on the incident and reflect on everyone's actions. I saw that the advice I had received was valid, and began to accept that maybe it was time for some friendships to end.

aka bringing you into her frame. :-/

I did this on the advice of others. To me, leading in this situation meant making sure that my LTR was comfortable. The last time this happened, I dropped the ball and didn't notice that she was uncomfortable. The signals were my idea, and she was happy to go along with it.

DON'T BE SO PREOCCUPIED WITH YOUR FRAGILE SNOWFLAKE THAT YOU MISS OUT ON GOOD MEMORIES

LTR and I had a wonderful weekend spending time with people I rarely get to see. Only my friends missed out on good memories, not me.

Bang her on every piece of the furniture in the hotel room.

That still happened. And, I didn't have to leave anything early or sacrifice a good time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

From what you wrote it appears the only thing you did at first that was an oversight was leave her unattended for an hour.

Your friends may be idiots, they may be acting out,but was it really egregious or aggravated?

Seems like a lot is interpreted by her and her insecurities. Some mountain building out of molehills. How was the conversation going in a way you couldn't exaggeratedly include her. It's tough to both be sitting at a convo and them ignore her and NOT you and you not steer it or join her. If you left her alone with them...a) who knows how that shook out other than what she fed you (or they feed you) b) maybe they didn't have a lot to converse about. "Gee X , what is YOUR take on the current picks for the NFL draft this year?"

Maybe your friends are dicks (and to be fair, when put on the spot, they responded like dicks...but we don't know what would have happened if you just cut shit short and given them time to mature out of this phase). Look forward to new friends. There are plenty to be made.

And/Or maybe you're getting trained.

You're going to legally hitch yourself to this woman, you need to be looking at these situations with your own 100% open eyes... be reacting on your judgement and perception, and not constantly evaluating how to protect from uncomfortable situations, even if because of you she's in them.

Definitely just my 2 cents... but my radar would be wary that this may be a pink-flag of future issues.

A long marriage definitely means you'll KNOWINGLY inflict social situations on the other for your own benefit, but it's quid-pro-quo. Having long agonizing moments and making big deals out of small ones sets up a stage for unwanted kinds of growth.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your friends may be idiots, they may be acting out,but was it really egregious or aggravated?

There is over 30 years of back story that leads me to believe it was purposeful. Particularly events over the last 5 years as I've grown and my interests and views on life have changed, and are no longer in line with theirs. Additionally, there was an eerily similar situation with another couple that we were all friends with.

"Gee X , what is YOUR take on the current picks for the NFL draft this year?"

This made me laugh because she could probably talk circles around these two in regards to her fantasy leagues.

You're going to legally hitch yourself to this woman, you need to be looking at these situations with your own 100% open eyes...

I've thought a lot about this situation since it happened and since my original post. This is the only potential "pink-flag" as you put it for potential issues that I've spotted throughout our relationship. It is the only issue we have ever disagreed on and the only argument we have ever had. I've heard and watched her tell the story several times. I've heard nothing from my friends end on the whole situation, just bits and pieces and second hand stuff from other friends. I've taken all of that along with my opinions and observations and come to the conclusion that this was just a particularly messy way for friends to grow apart.

Edit: So, thank you for your advice. I will keep in the back of my mind, but for right now it is not causing my radar to go off. Maybe if LTR also didn't get along with my family, or my other friends, or her family and friends hadn't been anything but kind and welcoming to me. But, it is definitely something I will keep in my back pocket in case I ever start to have deja vu.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Or waistband under the back of your shirt as that is where you keep CONCEALED WEAPONS.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I do believe recognizing that this is a slippery slope is valid. You walked a tight rope and got to the other side safely.

There is valid concern for the future though. What could easily happen is that your LTR will get her feelings hurt in a similar situation. However, in this new hypothetical scenario, she is in the wrong and you don't have her back. She goes and lights a fire, jumps into the burning building, and then screeches at you to come rescue her. Now you have a burning building on your hands that you're expected to extinguish because you did the last time. It sets you up for a pretty difficult test of frame.

You don't want her to be like the little scrawny kid that befriends the biggest kid on the playground. Thinking that he has all the firepower on the playground on his side goes around starting shit with everyone else and picking fights. Not because the scrawny kid is going to fight his own battle, but his stupid goon friend that doesn't know any better is going to handle it for him and has his back.

The reason why I think you handled it well here was because your friends weren't just being dicks to her. By acting the way they were, they were being dicks to you. Did it create a little drama, yes. Is drama for women, yes. But, is someone going to blatantly disrespect your queen in the presence of the king. Hell no.

Just make sure your boundaries are tight going into the future and I think you will be fine.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am very confident that this was an isolated, one off event. LTR is drama-free. She doesn't allow it in her life from family, friends, or work. My friends created the drama, and LTR wasn't sure how to deal with it because they were my friends, whom she had never met before.

That was my original mistake. I thought this was women being women overblown drama. But really, it was man bitch drama. I believe they wanted to get LTR all riled up so we would fight and break up. There was never any drama from my end. I said my piece and moved on. Even if people asked we didn't talk about it the rest of the weekend.

[–]Tebulus2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think you are overplaying the white knight aspect. He did not jump down their throats over a perceived slight already assuming his snowflake could do no wrong. He witnessed the shitty behavior himself, and not just that he waited to confirm that it was shitty behavior and not a misunderstanding. They both shut down the shitty behavior together, the shitty autistic ex friends showed their bellys and how much they suck. OP got lots of sex, a great story, and a huge demonstration of value at a social event and probably a bit of respect from ltr. Your way sounds like ignoring the problem and trying to create another one.

[–]All_Ads_Deceive0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

They never respected you. Now you respect yourself, congrats.

Next step is to have a foursome with their wives

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If I were to ever participate in group sex again, I'd definitely pick different women. But, I must admit it wasn't really my thing. I preferred threesome porn to the actual threesome, but I don't watch porn anymore either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–]Tebulus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuckin A. I am sure she will be telling that story for years. Good job for thinking about it and making a decision to not tolerate your shitty ex friends.

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Some friendship last the tests of time, some don't. Don't dwell on trivial shit like this.

My question is now that you have seen these guys in this light, if you look back through this same lens do, do you see them as the friends you thought they were?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

For the first 25 years, yes they were great friends. Throughout the course of a friendship, to a degree you get out of it what you put into it, and I am willing to admit that I wasn't always the best friend and neither were they. But, between 23-25 things started to change. There was a shift where more and more of the friend group started to settle down. I am the last one to get married, and the wedding isn't for some time (That's if you don't count one dude who is a life long bachelor, nothing wrong with that. That was me less than 2 years ago.)

Cue their gfs/wives trying to constantly set me up with their insufferable friends and being the constant recipient of advice about how I should "get my life together and stop acting like we are still in college." At the time I was doing remote freelance work and traveling around a lot, I was having a great time. Then I decided to go to grad school in a different part of the country that I had spent a lot of time traveling to and enjoyed. It helped that I got a considerable scholarship. Turns out they only wanted me to "get my life together" if it was on their terms and not mine.

I've done an LDR and LDFs are almost as useless. I don't know if male friendships can offer anything meaningful if they are entirely through texts, emails and phone calls. I've considered what I would do if either of them decided they wanted to apologize. I haven't reached a decision yet.

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They don't sound like good friends man. I know that when my wife starts shitting on my friends about thier life choices, I squash it. They probably laugh about it when you're not there though because they're pussies who give a homie the silent treatment instead of real talk.

On the real though, you're investing way too much time and feelz into something so trivial. Either they come around or they don't. The sun will come up tomorrow. You said it yourself they are long-distance-friends.

You handled that situation not too badly, but my concern would be the possible dynamic you have subconsciously manifested within your wife. In her hind brain, she has caused you to break ties with your friends. Essentially, a lot of that exchange took place within her frame. Don't be surprised if she suddenly starts trying to control you more after this. Shit tests a comin boy.

Solution? Read, lift, STFU



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