Lifting- cut or bulk first?

chachaChad · 2017-07-27T13:39:26+00:00

Finally, a decent fucking question in here... :)

You're tried cutting and it's gotten you where you are. Fine... but since you don't really have a lot of muscles to show under there dropping more weight isn't going to make you look ripped.

I'm 53, and about 3 years back, I dropped from 207lbs to 160lbs using Calories In Calories Out with the Lost It App and running 3-4 days a week using the Couch to 5K app. I went from being a average fat schlub to a trim schlub but I was able to dress better and felt a lot better about myself. I've kept the weight off and have not trouble getting attention from heavy females. After the big initial loss in the first 6 months, I've been stuck losing that last 15 would I thought would should just how ripped I am. Well, guess what? That's not really gonna happen because when I lost the weight, I also lost muscle so not I'm skinny fat. I look trim but at 16% body fat I still have a gut.

About 3 months ago, I finally decided I was going to lift after coming up with every excuse not to. I don't have time. It's too expensive. I should lose weight first. Also, I've stopped jacking and porn (except for the occasional relief when my nuts are going to burst). I joined a gym and go 4 times a week and hired a trainer to show me proper form.

Lifting changes your attitude and I'm not sure if it actually raised my testosterone or not but I feel more manly and carry myself with more confidence.. I notice that my voice is even deeper. Now, I notice I get smiles from women I don't smile at first and not only from the fatties. You can not underestimate the power of muscles.

If been in a "bulking phase" for 12 weeks and after next week, I plan on doing a 12 week cut.

I think, whatever you do, you should do something. From this post and the one you linked, you don't seem like you dare commit to something and do it to see the results. You want someone else to figure it out for you. Just fucking do something and see if it works.

Bulk like a monster then cut.

2gunsgetsome · 2017-07-27T14:47:01+00:00

Read this.

Do whatever the fuck else you want, but no matter what you do (bulk or cut), you must lift heavy. End of conversation.

discobolus_ · 2017-07-27T14:21:35+00:00

I'm working on a long form post on a similar topic.

Most important thing: what is your starting point? Are you fat?

If you're even kinda fat, your #1 priority is making your scale number go down slowly and steadily. Diet is #1. Find "You are what you eat" on the mrp sidebar and start there. Walk and diet, every day. Not starving yourself....slight deficit + intentional macro tracking. Protein at 1g per lb lean bodymass....I tend to favor lowish carb (100g/day)....but this isn't a hard and fast rule. Muscle usually comes on slower than fat will fall off, so if you are overweight the scale must move down! If you're gaining weight while lifting, don't bullshit yourself that it's muscle mass. Not until you're sub 15% should you even entertain this idea.

If you're underweight, I have little experience. I'll gain 12 lbs in 2 weeks if I ever lapse in calorie counting. But my novice advice here would be to read that same "You are what you eat" post, and eat at a slight surplus - lean heavy on the protein and maybe 25-30% carbs should be the extent of your 'bulk' diet unless you're a waifish marathon runner build.

With regard to lifting....if you're not trained, you need to get to a basic level of strength first. If you're fat or weak, none of your aesthetic bodybuilding routines are going to work very well. If you're fat, none of your gains will show. If you're weak, burn-out curls with pink dumbbells aren't going to produce gains.

That's why Starting Strength or 5x5 is such a good starting point. Full body, compound lifts will quickly build up a base level of strength. You've got to get to the jumping off point before going into anything else.

To me, the jumping off point is sub 15% bodyfat, and strength in the intermediate to proficient level: (plug in your own vitals) https://symmetricstrength.com/standards#/200/lb/male/44

EDIT: Intermediate to Proficient in the big 4 (press/deadlift/squat/bench). Don't worry about the lifts not in your program

Once you're here, you can probably start making choices with regard to what is next for you. You'll have an idea of what works and what doesn't, what you like and what you hate in the gym, etc. But if you make that step before you're at the jumping off point, you've not built the foundation.

Get strong first.

anythinginc · 2017-07-27T13:47:19+00:00

Being 100% shallow here. Because it makes the easily noticed muscle groups big and hard really fast, which gets you the best SMV bang for your buck and time. There are a lot other reasons, some of which may or may not apply, but like I said, I'm being shallow.

Bulking/cutting is armchair bullshit right now until you start to plateau because those noob gains are super easy. If you can pinch an inch you are "bulked" enough to start. Lift, eat right post-work-out, run a calorie deficit, enjoy the transformation. Making it fancy makes it difficult so you can rationalize cutting corners and skipping.

until I see my abs

Seeing abs is purely a function of your bf%. Below ~13%, there they are.

marks1995 · 2017-07-27T13:58:34+00:00

I'm 5'11" and was 225 lbs 6 months ago. Went for weight loss first and dropped 25 lbs, but I made that decision primarily to get some discipline in my eating and to make myself walk an hour every night.

I still have 15 lbs or so to go, but started lifting 8 weeks ago because I want something to see once that last layer of fat is gone. I've found the small gains I've gotten from lifting in 8 weeks have done more for my confidence/posture/how I feel than losing the 25 lbs did.

So I would make lifting the priority.

As a bonus, strong guys with a little cushion can still pull some decent women. Skinny guys get fatties (unless you are in a metal band).

atlhart · 2017-07-27T14:25:18+00:00

If you want to lower your BF%, you'll want to cut and you'll want to CICO at a deficit.

If you want to increase muscle mass, you'll want to bulk and CICO at a surplus.

In either case, you should be lifting heavy and eating an appropriate amount of lean protein.

Westernhagen · 2017-07-27T16:11:08+00:00

I've been lifting regularly for 10 months now, and my weight hasn't really changed a lot (I'm now at 194 from 185) however I am definitely a lot stronger, muscles are bigger, and lots more veins are evident. I'd say I'm at about 15% based on comparison with online pictures. I have toyed with the idea of cutting but really I'm still in the "noob gains" zone and I want to keep getting stronger and building more muscle while it's "easier". So I'm eating surplus calories, and if anything I'm disappointed that I'm not putting on more weight.

Looking at your photo, I'd say you want more muscles. Lift for six months to a year and then see where you are.

The other benefit of lifting heavy is psychological. Getting under that bar builds mental toughness too. Especially the back squat, which for some reason always inspires existential dread - whenever I do it, I have to conquer that fear. It's a really good feeling when you say to yourself, "don't be a pussy, you can do this" and then you do it.

FistFullOfBitches · 2017-07-27T19:02:23+00:00

Looked at the picture in your edit. Just start lifting already. Seriously. That's the definition of "skinnyfat". Noob gains will have you synthesizing muscle mass under pretty much any diet plan. Bulking obvs builds a little faster but get your ass over to the free weight section ASAP.

BobbyPeru · 2017-07-28T00:16:29+00:00

In your case, keep bulking. When you run into a bunch of plateaus, double or triple up on your squats, and try to stay around the same weight. You will add a lot of muscle to your legs and butt, which will burn more fat, but you should be able to keep your upper body muscle if you keep working it out and adding more protein. This is what has worked for me in the past.

Drop this idea of "losing weight" and go for the body you want.

ddin73 · 2017-07-27T14:55:56+00:00

Thanks, so go straight for bulk - and calorie deficit or eat for bulking?

NightFire45 · 2017-07-27T13:41:58+00:00

You're not obese so I'd say run with lean gains. Also do add cardio and use Strong Lifts or Wendler's 5/3/1. On r/fitness there are also variations of SL and 5/3/1 that you can try. What program you use and diet will greatly depend on what your end goals are.

Title	Lifting- cut or bulk first?
Author	ddin73
Upvotes	4
Comments	28
Date	July 27, 2017 1:00 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6pvqwr/lifting_cut_or_bulk_first/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/lifting-cut-or-bulk-first.205798 https://theredarchive.com/post/205798

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