What to do when Dread has no effect?

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March 7, 2017

Hello Gentlemen,

I am in need of some advice, as I seem to have ended up in a rather unusual situation. I'll try to be concise, but believe that a little backstory would be helpful so there's a lot of text here.

I'm in my mid-30's, and have been married to my wife for almost ten years. We started dating as college freshmen, and our relationship was the first (and only) serious relationship for both of us. We have two children, a preschooler and a 9 month old baby. I was raised by a very blue pill father and a domineering mother and so it was not until I was married with children that I came to understand why our previously happy marriage had become stale, and why my wife thought it was acceptable to gradually let herself go over time.

Before we had kids our sex life was okay, but not great. My wife is fairly high strung and needed to be relaxed to be horny, and I was often hesitant to initiate sex and actively avoid conflict due to my blue pill, sensitive guy upbringing. Neither of us was in particularly good shape or sexually adventurous, and I supplemented our sex life with porn on a regular basis. Things understandably got worse after the birth of our first child, but I was understanding and gave her a lot of slack for the first year.

After two years it became clear that she just didn't care about looking good or having sex regularly, and I was pretty disgruntled as a result. Having no clue about TRP I unintentionally began a crude form of Dread Game in the hope that I could lead by example. I started getting in shape, dressing better and doing activities apart from my wife simply because I enjoyed them. I was never significantly overweight or sloppy looking, but was able to boost my SMV probably from a 5 to an 8 by getting my shit together. I'm outgoing, confident and now apparently reasonably attractive. People now comment on the improvement in my appearance, and my wife is generally unsettled but makes only half-hearted efforts to follow my lead. She joined a gym but never goes, and her diet is mediocre with too much junk food. She gets testy when I try to get her to buy healthy food; she obviously feels guilty but isn't willing to change. She's the kind of person who hates calorie labels at restaurants because she'd rather be ignorant about what she's eating. For reference she's 5'4" and I'm guessing 160 pounds, whereas I'm 5'7" and weigh 130.

After about six months of working to improve myself with no effect on my wife's behavior, I decide to start discretely dating on the side because I was fed up with having crappy sex every two weeks and looking for an outlet. At this point I still have no idea that the manosphere exists, I'm just off doing whatever I think will make me happy without blowing up my marriage.

It turns out that I'm actually something of a natural when it comes to game and quite good at sex. At some point I discover various red pill websites and use the information I learn to up my game even further. I end up sleeping with a series of young women in fairly short order, and eventually end up where I am today, which is in a 6 month+ LTR with a mid-20's girl with a high sex drive and a daddy kink. We have sex as often as I want, which is basically daily. My logistics for this are quite good although I'd rather not go into detail for fear of being doxxed.

Sounds great right? So here's the problem... I don't want to live a double life, I want my wife to improve herself so we can both be happy again. I have basically run through every level of dread short of telling my wife that I'm having an affair, but she hasn't responded at all. She's questioned me on it in the past when I've been distant or in a bad mood, but she thinks I'm a terrible liar and would be genuinely shocked if she knew what I was up to. I don't have the heart to tell her that I'm no longer attracted to her (I did once and her response was basically to beg me not to leave her, it was not fun). I have zero interest in having sex with her; her body grosses me out and I'm already so sexually satisfied that I can't physically get turned on by her. I'm not proud of cheating, but I feel like it's a better option than divorcing someone I love just because she got fat and our sex like is crap. So what the hell am I supposed to do???

Post Information
Title What to do when Dread has no effect?
Author daddytwoshoes
Upvotes 6
Comments 20
Date 07 March 2017 09:25 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206443
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/5y3k4b/what_to_do_when_dread_has_no_effect/
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[–]anythingincRed Beret15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

We started dating as college freshmen, and our relationship was the first (and only) serious relationship for both of us....I'm [now] in my mid-30's.

a 9 month old baby.

After about six months of working to improve myself with no effect on my wife's behavior, I decide to start discretely dating on the side

6 month+ LTR

So you go from worthless to awesome in six months (after 10++ years, impressive) and start leading a double life while your wife is at home with a baby and/or pregnant. We know how much effort dating and fucking secretly on the side takes. A lot. Effort you weren't putting into yourself, your children, or your wife. Fine, it is one thing to not like your wife. But it sounds like you are blaming her when she maybe never had a chance. What we tell people here though...you have to kinda like your wife, you have to lead and have a vision of the future that you want for your family and yourself. It sounds like you don't have that for your wife or your kids. It sounds like you have a lot of resentment and so you worked on yourself until you could get better, and then put them on the side burner. Which is FINE..but don't come in here asking us to rationalize your side piece for you.

I don't want to live a double life, I want my wife to improve herself so we can both be happy again.

I honestly do not believe you. I think you just want your actions to seem more noble somehow. Spoiler: We don't care about nobility, we care about being honest with yourself.

So what the hell am I supposed to do???

Without laying papers in front of her and hoping for the best (Which is best actually? Divorce and fresh pussy? Or a fit, DTF wife? Can you convince yourself of one or the other?) the only way is to take all this fucking effort you've been putting into playing Don Draper on the side..and instead start putting it back into yourself and your wife and your family. If you magically ended up with one of the Red Pill Women wives overnight, they might call you attractive...but I bet there is no way in hell they would call you The Family Alpha™ and submit to your frame and leadership.

Just in case somebody doesn't post the famous boat towing metaphor Imma paraphrase quickly:

You improved enough for other women who don't know your shit, but didn't give your wife enough time to catch up (especially with babies/pregnancy). Also, I bet you barely tried.

Be true to yourself, figure out what you want. Make an honest attempt to make it happen.

  • Double life
  • Attempt to be a better family alpha
  • Divorce and make up for missing out

We don't care which one you choose. But don't bullshit yourself or us.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Blue pill betas cheat for the validation. First you have to figure out for yourself why you cheat. You have dreaded your wife out of sequence. The 12 steps of dread are escalating steps. Jumping from one level to another in a haphazard fashion does not instill dread, but confusion and disdain.

You have a 9 month old kid and you are sitting in a 6+ month relationship, my money is on you felt lack of validation from mommy because she was too busy bearing your child to make you feel good about yourself.

Discreetly cultivating plates for a married man takes a lot of your time, time you are not spending on your wife and on yourself.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

You need an example OP. Here is a guy that kept playing on the side for years .

It all looked good on paper, until he finally realized that there might be more to it. .

By his own admission, all that playing around was a fools errand. The basis was not anything that would make sense. If he had spent all that time improving himself, maybe his second marriage would have gone better too.

Karma is a bitch. Just like the guy in those links, you are on the wrong side of it.

That's all you get.

[–]2gunsgetsome2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

From your OP:

(I did once and her response was basically to beg me not to leave her, it was not fun).

From your comment later:

I don't want to hurt her feelings by telling her why.

You're scared of her feelings and you're afraid of short term discomfort. Read this.

I don't want to live a double life

Good, you sort of know what YOU want.

I want my wife to improve herself

But you're still placing responsibility for your happiness/satisfaction in the hands of someone besides yourself, someone who's actions and choices you do not ever control.

so we can both be happy again

She's just fine with the way things are, and she'll be just fine if you leave.

Is your shit is together so that you could accept either outcome?

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Have you tried leadership? Get a gym membership for your wife. Take her to the gym. Get a food plan. Prep it together.

I don't have the heart to tell her that I'm no longer attracted to her (I did once and her response was basically to beg me not to leave her, it was not fun)

Then don't tell her and don't leave. If she figures it out, and she will, tell her that you love her and would not leave. I seriously doubt if she would leave you for "cheating." Strong men throughout time have always "cheated" and supplemented fun time with the wife.

Your problem isn't that you are fucking a hotter/younger/tighter girl. Your problem is you have lost attraction for your wife which is the opposite problem that most Merps have.

We don't have the answer for women who want their husbands to man up because that is the man's choice and his alone. We also don't have the answer for men in the situation of wanting their wives to become more attractive. It is entirely her choice except for one thing- women tend to follow a strong man so it is sometimes possible to lead a woman into becoming more attractive. If she is willing to follow, that is half the battle right there because women who follow are attractive! Go figure.

[–]J_Incognito2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

My logistics for this are quite good although I'd rather not go into detail for fear of being doxxed

I hope you're not shitting where you eat. Other than someone at work, I'm not sure how you're managing a daily affair w/ a preschooler and 9 month old.

You have options, pick a lane. If you're sticking to making the marriage work, then you'll need to confront her about her failing you. She'll cry - but you're going to make her cry one way or another.

[–]SepeanRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't have the heart to tell her that I'm no longer attracted to her (I did once and her response was basically to beg me not to leave her, it was not fun).

Aww poor you.

She's not going to change until you lead. So lead instead of pussyfooting around. Set boundaries and enforce them.

Also, look at your leverage. What can you take away? Not sex. Affection? Provision? You need leverage.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're delusional. You're not an 8 if you're 5'7 and 130 lbs unless you're ripped like Bruce Lee. You sound like a sad little butt hurt man that cheats on his wife to have validation that you are a real man. By the way, no judgement for the cheating on an ethical level, but you're wasting everyone's time by posting here. You are not interested in being a true alpha male, you are a little sex starved beta that wants to sprinkle a little alpha on your life and call it Red Pill. Leave your wife, it would be a kindness to her.

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

whereas I'm 5'7" and weigh 130

You probably look like a concentration camp survivor. No one dreads losing that.

Gain some muscle and become desirable, not just skinny, then talk to us about dread working.

DYEL bro?

[–]daddytwoshoes[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for the dose of reality, I need a little of that.

I am not shitting where I eat. She lives close to where I work and we both have flexible schedules that allow us to meet up during the day. I also have a side gig and personal interests that make it easy for me to carve out time from work or time I would otherwise spend with friends. I'm home almost every night after work and spend most of my time on weekends taking care of one or both children or doing household chores.

Before I started cheating I was like a good blue pill man who thought he could actually impress his wife by spending more time on housework and taking care of the children, but we all know ineffective that is. All that happens when I go out of my way to do more is that she fills her free time with Facebook, TV or going shopping.

Part of my issue is indeed that I let my resentment fester for a long time; she gained weight in the lead up to our wedding and has struggled with it since then. Every few years she would go on a diet or join a gym, but it never stuck. In the past I always thought she was a great catch in spite of that; she's smart, kind and we're very compatible on a deep level. She's not as fit or DTF as I would like, but I was always able to shut that out of my mind... after all I had never been with anyone else and was totally clueless when it came to women, so I didn't know any different. I didn't exactly go from worthless to awesome in six months, most of the problem was in my head all along. I had no self confidence, basically.

Maybe my post sounds like justification for divorce, but honestly the thought makes me sick to my stomach. I want things to work but I'm at a total loss as to what I can do. My biggest fear is that I have unrealistic expectations for my wife, and that she'll never be the person I want her to be no matter what. It's a horrible thought.

I'm currently experimenting with withholding sex and affection (we used to have sex a couple times a month, but I stopped initiating about a month ago). She's noticed that I'm not being affectionate, but doesn't ask why and I don't want to hurt her feelings by telling her why.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I want things to work but I'm at a total loss as to what I can do.

I don't want to hurt her feelings

No, you're at a total loss as to how to motivate her to change without hurting her feelings.

So are we.

Quit hamstering, decide what's more important to you (her feelings or yours), own and act on that decision, and accept that the chips must fly where they may. If you're unwilling to offend her, own that decision and stop whining to us about it.

Sprinkle on, faggot!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Withholding sex is passive aggressive and counterproductive.

Right now you're on a high of sneaking around with a younger chick. It's fun, no doubt, but probably a waste of time on par with video games and jerking off. At best, it's an exciting hobby. Speaking from experience.

My feeling is that you want a nice, stable family. You can't do that when you're throwing your energies in other directions.

If you married a fatass and don't want her to be a fatass you can try to lead, but I don't know many success stories. Honestly, if my wife got fat and refused to fix it I'd probably move on. But she's known that's been my position since we started dating. You're changing the rules in the middle of the game and it's going to take her a long time to catch up-- if she does. BTW, it's probably best to wait until the youngest is 2 before you make any life-altering decisions.

I'd suggest that you figure out what your mission is in life. I bet it doesn't include screwing some immature girl with daddy issues. At your heart, you know it's going to blow up. And right now you don't have the frame to handle the fallout. At least, at the end of the day, you can say to yourself "I quit my plates, tried to lead my wife toward fitness. She didn't follow so now my decision is easy." Until you can say that-- probably at least a year of hard work and dedication from now-- you're not ready.

Find mental clarity

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Everyone else has covered cheating, so I'll leave that be.

Your other problem is that you are a failure as a leader. Buying health food and expecting your wife to drop weight is a covert contract. Instead, download MyPlate or similar app on your phone and start tracking calories and macros for whatever your goal is (bulking or cutting). Buy food on the weekend and spend an afternoon prepping meals ready to eat for lunches and dinners. Label everything so you know what's in it. Do it together as a family activity. Have the preschooler help too - they'll get a kick out of it, even if it's a semi meaningless task (like count the carrots or some shit). That way your shit is on lock, and so is hers. Best part - she does this willingly and eagerly because you led her to this, not because you bought a bunch of health food with an unspoken expectation. At night, tell her "you can head to the gym for an hour or so, I'll hang out with the kids". Leave her no excuses not to go.

Lead the horse to water. If it drinks, it drinks, if not, oh well. Right now, you're just pointing in the general direction of where water would be, and stomping your feet because the horse doesn't know where to go or what to do.

[–]drty_prRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP. Take it quite serious that the best of the best have all taken time to give you very detailed answers to your situation. Everything you need to know has been said. Man the fuck up!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Having an effect is a pleasant side effect, not a goal.

Dread is the deliberate, and systematic set of steps to remove you from a sexless relationship, and put you into a position of abundance for a next one, allowing enough time for the woman to get her shit together and start acting right.

If you're expecting anything out of her, you're sprinkling alpha on your relationship, and shouldn't be surprised when she calls your bluff.

This isn't a parlor trick, you have to mean it faggot.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Are you my alter?

Minus actually pulling the trigger on the affair.

[–]daddytwoshoes[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This is fantastic feedback, thank you all. I have a lot of reading and processing to do, but I definitely need to man the fuck up no matter which path I choose. I'm still too passive aggressive and need to get over that and start leading more consistently. I'm also going to look into counselling for myself to help sort out some of my own shit.

Things are greatly complicated by the fact that the side girl might actually be a better match for me than my wife. As I mentioned I've been cheating for almost two years (about 20 different sex partners and lots of first "dates" over coffee, a drink or lunch) but until I met this girl I never questioned that my wife was the One. This girl is kind, caring, smart, smoking hot, faithful, works out regularly, loves to cook, loves to fuck, is great with kids and wants to be a part of my life. But I'm married to a wonderful woman who's going through the toughest stage of her life so maybe I should cut her some slack. Ugh.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Oneitis and scarcity mentality. Really bro?

[–]daddytwoshoes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I should have said that I've met few girls that I would actually consider to be LTR material. I'm not so naive as to actually believe that there's such a thing as "the One", but it's fair to say that there aren't a lot of girls out there who check all of my boxes. If all I cared about was pussy it would be easier but I do have higher standards than that.

[–]daddytwoshoes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I do stronglifts 5x5 a couple of times a week, but I'd rather fuck the side girl or spend time with my wife & kids than work out so my progress has slowed over the past few months. I have a small frame so a little muscle goes a long way. Probably at ~15% BF right now with defined pecs, tapered torso, nice butt. I dress well and have a high status job. I've been told I'm hot/cute/good looking often enough to have internalized it, so I don't give a shit what you think. I'd do just fine if my wife left me, but I'm trying not to be a complete dick here.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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